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      02-17-2012, 02:29 PM   #1
Brainofjjj
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KW spring install - ABS, DCS lights are now all ON - Help

M3posters....

I've done some searching but haven't found anyone having my identical issue.
I'll lay out the timeline and changes below.

First off my car is a 2011 E90 with ZCP and DCT.

Fri - 2/10 - KW sleeve over kit installed, low but not the lowest setting. Car rides well but needs an alignment BAD.
NO LIGHTS or errors.

Sat - 2/11 - Alignment done at local shop. Specs are not all within BMW spec on the Hunter machine but I was ok with that because i was going to get GC camber plates.

Front L = -1.4 camber
Front R = -2.0 camber
Both heights the same but i couldn't get anymore out of the left.
Rear L = -2.5
Rear R = -2.7
Camber seemed fine but could get no additional toe to bring within spec.

2/14 - driving to work the following lights come on. All are in AMBER, not Red.
ABS, DSC and Brake light are all on. Car also shifts from 1st to 2nd in manual mode at 3k rpm like it was in D mode. Very odd.

2/17 - Today. Take it back to the shop that installed the springs. They ran the codes and find the Right rear speed sensor is erroring. We clean the gunk off and the lights are all still ON.
They think that the alignment is so out of spec that the computer is malfunctioning.

Does this make sense to anyone?

Do i need to get the full alignment spec outta the car to really troubleshoot this? Seems to me that people who track all the time, and have crazy alignment specs would see this...if it was due to that.

Hope this all makes sense. Thanks
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Last edited by Brainofjjj; 02-17-2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: added details
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      02-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainofjjj View Post

Sat - 2/11 - Alignment done at local shop. Specs are not all within BMW spec on the Hunter machine but I was ok with that because i was going to get GC camber plates.

Front L = -1.4 camber
Front R = -2.2 camber
Both heights the same but i coulnd't get anymore out of the left.
Rear L = -2.4
Rear R = -2.3
Camber seemed fine but could get no additional toe to bring within spec.

First question: Why would you get an alignment when you are going to get GC Camber plates? You should have installed the springs and plates at the same time, and then gotten an alignment afterwards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainofjjj View Post
They think that the alignment is so out of spec that the computer is malfunctioning.

Does this make sense to anyone?
No, this doesn't make sense.

When I had my Dinan springs installed, the tech couldn't get the alignment right.
about -1.2 on one side, -2+ on the other
The reason for this was he installed them incorrectly.
MRF engineering fixed his mistake, and when I went on a Hunter Alignment machine, I was able to get my alignment dialed in.
so -2.5 both Fronts. (my rear never had an issue, -2 on both sides), I forgot my toe settings (I think neutral toe F, a little in the rear)
point is... my alignment was off for a couple of days, but I had 0 errors, no lights, nothing. The car just drove a little awkwardly (obviously)

It doesn't make sense for their to be DSC malfunction etc just cause your alignment is off. it DOES make sense if the install was done incorrectly.


You should have the install checked, either by the shop that did it, or another shop
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      02-17-2012, 02:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
First question: Why would you get an alignment when you are going to get GC Camber plates? You should have installed the springs and plates at the same time, and then gotten an alignment afterwards.




No, this doesn't make sense.

When I had my Dinan springs installed, the tech couldn't get the alignment right.
about -1.2 on one side, -2+ on the other
The reason for this was he installed them incorrectly.
MRF engineering fixed his mistake, and when I went on a Hunter Alignment machine, I was able to get my alignment dialed in.
so -2.5 both Fronts. (my rear never had an issue, -2 on both sides), I forgot my toe settings (I think neutral toe F, a little in the rear)
point is... my alignment was off for a couple of days, but I had 0 errors, no lights, nothing. The car just drove a little awkwardly (obviously)

It doesn't make sense for their to be DSC malfunction etc just cause your alignment is off. it DOES make sense if the install was done incorrectly.


You should have the install checked, either by the shop that did it, or another shop
Good question. I should have said i wasn't going to get them but did AFTER i got the alignment since it was so outta whack.

So far as the install being wrong. Can you think of anything that could have been installed wrong? I mean it's just spring and some height adjusters right.
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      02-17-2012, 03:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainofjjj View Post
Can you think of anything that could have been installed wrong? I mean it's just spring and some height adjusters right.
That's what I thought too

I'm not tech, and I'm not technical by any means.... so take what I say with a grain of salt:

You know the top of the struts? where you EDC module is connected?

The problem with my install was that the bolts were tightened and the struts kept "in place" at the wrong "angle"
MRF loosened the bolts, used a measuring tape to make sure both sides were even, and then tightened them.
Then I was able to get my alignment.

I'll warn you again: I'm not technical, I'm bad at describing things.... so it's best to consult a real tech.

But this is the area in the install that went wrong on my car
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      02-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #5
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Good idea, thanks Persian.

I have a feeling the guys who did the original install might not have been as 'scientific' as I would have liked. They only work on bmw's and are a great bunch of guys but you never know.

I'll be looking at the front struts tomorrow when i get the plates installed and we'll see what's what.

Just seems very damn odd that something like that could make the ABS and DSC go haywire.
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      02-17-2012, 04:18 PM   #6
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I just installed my KW's last weekend. No lights, errors and riding well. It's very odd that you're getting these errors from the install. However, there is a bracket on the strut that is bolted with the steering knuckle. This bracket holds the brake lines and 2 other lines. You might want to have that checked out.
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      02-17-2012, 04:28 PM   #7
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Just out of curiosity.....why would you buy a car with ZCP, which has EDC and a lowered ride height, if you were planning on installing aftermarket suspension parts?

ZCP is really an option for people who specifically DON'T want to mod the suspension and/or the wheels.
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      02-17-2012, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Just out of curiosity.....why would you buy a car with ZCP, which has EDC and a lowered ride height, if you were planning on installing aftermarket suspension parts?

ZCP is really an option for people who specifically DON'T want to mod the suspension and/or the wheels.
I originally thought that but found that ZCP still wasn't low enough for my tastes. More than happy with my ZCP EDC Shocks & Struts with my KW sleeve kit.

Sorry OP I don't have any good tips. Make sure the ride height sensors are in place and positioned correctly. They can easily be broken or the linkage could be wrong.
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      02-18-2012, 07:56 AM   #9
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Thanks all. I'm heading over to get the plates installed and a new alignment. If this doesn't work then it's going to the dealer on Monday. This will turn into the worlds most expensive spring install before its all over.
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      02-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #10
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Post alignment update

Rear toe was way out. It was moved from
L .33 to .08
R .24 to .07

We ran a code then and the lights went away and no codes. However as soon as I drove away the lights came back on. The car feels much better, tracks well and is stable.

Unfortunately Nashville has no good shops other than the one I went to. Monday it's going to the dealer and I'm getting prepared for a raping. If the have to take it all apart again then this will definitely win an award for most expensive spring install


If you're listening IND or EAS or any of you other shops....please open a shop closer to me!!!
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      02-18-2012, 09:24 AM   #11
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My hunch is one of the wheel speed sensors was damaged during the installation. If that is all it is, it shouldn't be a big deal. They cost less than $100. Good luck and keep us posted.
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      02-18-2012, 09:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
My hunch is one of the wheel speed sensors was damaged during the installation. If that is all it is, it shouldn't be a big deal. They cost less than $100. Good luck and keep us posted.
+1 I was thinking the same thing.
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      02-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #13
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Thanks. All good ideas.

One of the weird things was that I drove it for 4 days after the install with no issues.
Any idea why that is?

I know some things take time before the computer gets angry and decides to alert you. "Gets angry" is a very technical term btw.
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      02-18-2012, 10:17 AM   #14
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What a bummer, but hopefully an easy fix. I wonder if one of those Bav. Tech code readers would be helpful in a situation like this?
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      02-18-2012, 05:50 PM   #15
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In addition to the above suggestions I would also check the steering wheel angle sensor. On my E46 M3 that sensor went out in me and threw the same lights on.
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      02-18-2012, 06:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Just out of curiosity.....why would you buy a car with ZCP, which has EDC and a lowered ride height, if you were planning on installing aftermarket suspension parts?

ZCP is really an option for people who specifically DON'T want to mod the suspension and/or the wheels.
But also the setting in idrive
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      02-22-2012, 11:27 AM   #17
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Car went to the dealership this morning. I have a sneaking suspicion that
A) the install shop broke something
B) they installed something wrong

I don't have a lot of faith since they installed the rear headlight arm backwards and I had to look up a pic on the forum and point that out to them.

When i get the bill from the dealer I'm planning on taking it to the shop and asking they pay. That is if it turns out to be the install.
We'll see...
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      02-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #18
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Keep us posted. Very interested in what this turns out to be.
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      02-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
Keep us posted. Very interested in what this turns out to be.
Well here's where i am today.
Nashville BMW is telling me it's the right rear wheel bearing.

Last week after i had the initial problem I brought it by the shop that installed the springs. They plugged in their diagnostic computer and it indicated a problem in the right rear, at the time they thought it was a sensor. They cleaned the sensor and I got another alignment, no change.

Since i wanted a 2nd opinion i dropped it off at the dealership, when they called today with the wheel bearing diagnosis i was surprised but wanting to have this resolved I asked them to fix it....total bill $990

I then called the shop and explained what the dealership found. They were a bit confused i guess since i hadn't called back to say it was still an issue. They were also saying there was virtually no way a spring install could have anything to do with wheel bearings.

However, I'm stuck now with a bill not covered by the warranty because of the springs...the dealership will fight me all day long. I've now spent almost 4 days dealing with this including the 2 day install.

Total cost so far

KW springs - $800
alignment - $89
Install - $600
Wheel bearing - $990

total = $2479

I learned a valuable lesson...and this isn't over, yet. I'm going to take the old bearings to the shop and see what they say. I'm stuck in the middle though since i didn't give them a chance to fix it after reporting it the first time.
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      02-22-2012, 03:54 PM   #20
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I'm sorry for your troubles.

The wheel bearing should be covered under warranty. I would fight with the dealer. When installing springs you do not touch the bearing. It is enclosed in the hub. Bad bearing has nothing to do with the springs you installed on your car.

Also a bad bearing should not cause a CEL. Usually bad bearings are only heard and felt. You usually get a humming sound and vibration of some sort when a bearing has failed. I am not sure how the abs/dsc senors can determine a bad bearing??
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      02-22-2012, 04:22 PM   #21
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Yes I plan on fighting but I know that they will blame the spring install, he alluded to that within the first few mins of me bringing the car in.

I have never dealt with BMW US, if i pay and then call them can they help? Is there any recourse or am I screwed?
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      02-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
I'm sorry for your troubles.

The wheel bearing should be covered under warranty. I would fight with the dealer. When installing springs you do not touch the bearing. It is enclosed in the hub. Bad bearing has nothing to do with the springs you installed on your car.

Also a bad bearing should not cause a CEL. Usually bad bearings are only heard and felt. You usually get a humming sound and vibration of some sort when a bearing has failed. I am not sure how the abs/dsc senors can determine a bad bearing??
+1
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