BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #45
clar
Major
clar's Avatar
Singapore
26
Rep
1,035
Posts

 
Drives: M5
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Singapore

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
I am anxiously awaiting the new CaymanS. If it looks like it should -- a hardtop Boxster -- it will be gorgeous. I absolutely love the new design of the Boxster.

I actually really like the looks of the new 991....a damn shame it is sooo much more expensive than the 997s were.
Yeah me too. The new boxster really looks a lot more musculine. I am also shortlisting the new Cayman S as a probable replacement for my M3. Heard too much good thing about the Cayman's chasis and with the improved looks, it's certainly a tempting option if only they could quickly release pictures of the car!!!
__________________

- Frozen Grey F10 M5 DCT
- Rosso Corsa 458 Speciale
- Frozen Grey E92 M3 Sold
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2012, 11:32 PM   #46
saildoc
Private First Class
saildoc's Avatar
7
Rep
178
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 Porsche Cayman R
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: oklahoma city

iTrader: (1)

Drove a 991 S and a Cayman R back to back

Now that the M3 is gone I went to the local Porsche dealer to look at a Cayman R. That is a slick car-like driving a highly refined go cart. Most fun I ever had in a street car. Then just for kicks jumped in a 991 S, not as impressed. It was nice. Felt numb and isolated compared to the Cayman. Couldn't hear the engine at all...weird that I would miss it. No comparison, if you want to be involved with the care the Cayman R has set a new standard... just put in to buy one out of state..
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2012, 11:54 PM   #47
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saildoc View Post
Now that the M3 is gone I went to the local Porsche dealer to look at a Cayman R. That is a slick car-like driving a highly refined go cart. Most fun I ever had in a street car. Then just for kicks jumped in a 991 S, not as impressed. It was nice. Felt numb and isolated compared to the Cayman. Couldn't hear the engine at all...weird that I would miss it. No comparison, if you want to be involved with the care the Cayman R has set a new standard... just put in to buy one out of state..
The electric steering system in the new 911 is a bit numb but gets better at higher speeds. I was about to buy the cayman r but came to my senses just in time. I would suggest a 997.2 911s or gts. Those cars have amazing steering feel that tops any cayman and are very comfortable to live with on a daily basis. You can get pretty good deals on them these days. I got a CPO Second generation 911 s for 70k with very low miles. It's very fast and sits very low and handles amazing with sport suspension +.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 08:25 AM   #48
DocJohn
Second Lieutenant
DocJohn's Avatar
3
Rep
251
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

To all the Cayman fans: don't forget that a new cayman is on the horizon! (but sadly no new R model announced yet)

We'll see how it's going to be when the new boxster shows up this year!

That is one reason why I am going to give the 991 a full year on the market until I make up my mind. (I don't want a version 1.0 P-car and all of the niggling issues)

When the new cayman comes out it will have a slightly longer wheelbase as well, and may incorporate elements of the 991. New interior looks sweet on the Boxster, and should be the same on the cayman.

I am feeling like I want to go back to mid-engine for a while....
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2012, 09:41 PM   #49
M3Duo
Private
M3Duo's Avatar
United_States
0
Rep
57
Posts

 
Drives: 09 911 tt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post
Just got back from the Porsche Dealer to look at the 2012 Porsche 991 S. I must say that it is indeed a nice looking machine; the first thing I noticed was the longer wheel base with 20'' wheels and a lower stance, less over hang in the nose and rear, the rear quarter of the 991 has a look in my opinion of the Aston from a side angle, the interior is more of a luxury look than the previous 997 sporty look and feel; Very nice interior design taken from its bigger brother the Panamera. I must say the price tag loaded is way more than I would pay for a regular Carrera S ($130K ) but with 0-60 and quarter mile time .1 second off from a 996 turbo that commendable for a NA 3.8 motor. Any way overall very nice vehicle and can't wait for the 991 turbo.

I then decided to take a look at the Mercedes C63 AMG and I think Mercedes could have done a much better job of the design especially the rear, quarter panel back it's just not aggressive at all for an AMG only thing I liked about the vehicle was the motor but that alone did not win me over. Overall very bland interior and exterior styling.

I did test drive the new 991 S today, fully loaded with sports chrono/LC. It truly takes handling/speed a notch above M3(am sure the F80/82 will be great but that's 2-3 years away). The interior is greatly updated(way better than a 997). Yeah, the steering initially feels numb but at higher speeds it is quite alive. The car as is can be a DD and a weekend track toy as needed. If you need no more than 2 seats and have extra change you should consider this car, really
__________________


Drives: 997 Porsche turbo
Stable: Porsche Panamera
'09 e93M(sold), '09 e90(sold)
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2012, 10:28 PM   #50
bajaracer
Enlisted Member
0
Rep
39
Posts

 
Drives: Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post


The moment I can get in a 997.1 Turbo for $65K with reasonable miles, I'm there.
EXACTLY what i am thinking.....I will call it a day after i pick one of those up.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2012, 04:38 PM   #51
sawzall
Major
sawzall's Avatar
Canada
24
Rep
1,277
Posts

 
Drives: A Car
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 911S  [5.00]
2011 911 GT3 RS  [0.00]
I got to spend a fair bit of time with a 991S this weekend, and I have to say that i'm really impressed. There were four things that really stood out to me.

1. The electric steering is not noticeable. I think when most people are referring to a lack of feel, they are talking about the power steering plus option, which provides a huge amount of assist at low speeds and kills the feel. I've driven the car with and without this feature. At anything over 50kph, the steering feels very good - you can still feel the road through the steering, and it is extremely accurate. At low speeds with the plus option, it does feel lifeless, but honestly, at less than 40kph, I don't necessarily think its a bad thing.

2. The new PDK is absolutely fantastic. I went into the dealership insisting on a manual, having driven one when I was out in Scottsdale. IMHO, the 991 continues the 911 tradition of offering the best feeling manual out there. That being said, the PDK is on a whole different level. It is responsive at high and low speeds, and it is ridiculously fast at track speeds. I'm not a fan of the push/pull buttons for gear change though - I suspect it will take a long time to get used to coming from the paddles. At lower speeds, I find that it lurches less than the E92 M3. The 991 PDK is now on par with the M3 DCT, something which I couldn't say about the 997 PDK, and that speaks volumes about how good the DCT really is.

3. I know I'll be scolded by purists, but I love the GT-ishness of the 991. With the M3, I love being able to cruise home in comfort from the track, which in some cases can be 3-4 hours away. As a relatively big guy (i'm 6', 250lbs), I can easily see myself sitting in the 991 for hours without any issue. It is comfortable in both regular and sport modes. Finding comfortable track/street seating positions is easy, and I love the 'enveloped' feeling you get from the new interior.

4. As for it being fast, it definitely is. I've decided in moving up to a 991S, as it is more than enough car for me. It'll be a while before I have the skill to push a GT3 (or Turbo for that matter) around, and frankly, I like the blend between comfort and speed.

With that all said, I still love my M3. It's an absolutely amazing car for the price, and it isn't a direct comparison to the 911. But in my opinion, the 911 offers enough of an upgrade to justify the price difference, which is something I couldn't say before this weekend.

Last edited by sawzall; 04-30-2012 at 04:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2012, 06:22 AM   #52
dawgdog
Colonel
29
Rep
2,178
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M3, 2010 GT3RS
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa.

iTrader: (0)

Some concerns I have re the 991:
1. My left foot didn't feel comfortable and the lateral aspect of my right knee felt cramped.
2. I have read reports of noise buffeting at high speeds with the windows down. This would be a deal breaker for me.
3. No independent adjustment for throttle modulation. In Sports Plus the throttle is up modulated which I don't want. In the M3 the throttle setting is independent.
4. Not wild about the seats.
5. 20" wheels. What kind of rubber is available for these?
__________________
2015 f80 M3, 2010 GT3RS
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2012, 01:42 PM   #53
py0413
Major
py0413's Avatar
Canada
19
Rep
1,178
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 M5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BC

iTrader: (2)

If I not wrong, USA is probably the cheapest place to buy cars especially high end cars in the whole world. Prices might have come up a bit but still cheaper and way cheaper than most of the other countries. A few guys on 6speed had recently picked up their 997.2 GTS for less than $100k band new. We here in Canada, dealers are asking 145-155k for a GTS still and they are not willing to discount. Oh and here in BC we pay 12% tax too. I have been trying to buy this base 997.2 Carrera coupe which dealer wants $97k with cash and they want to to offer me 1k off, yes $1000 off a $97000 car with cash purchase.
__________________
Must stop eating..............
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2012, 03:22 PM   #54
gblansten
Beandoc
gblansten's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
2,260
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 BMW M5 SG/SS
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Duo View Post
I did test drive the new 991 S today, fully loaded with sports chrono/LC. It truly takes handling/speed a notch above M3(am sure the F80/82 will be great but that's 2-3 years away). The interior is greatly updated(way better than a 997). Yeah, the steering initially feels numb but at higher speeds it is quite alive. The car as is can be a DD and a weekend track toy as needed. If you need no more than 2 seats and have extra change you should consider this car, really
At $116-125K reasonably optioned the 991 S has gotten pretty expensive. I am impressed with the car though.
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2012, 09:32 AM   #55
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
21
Rep
1,908
Posts

 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by py0413 View Post
If I not wrong, USA is probably the cheapest place to buy cars especially high end cars in the whole world. Prices might have come up a bit but still cheaper and way cheaper than most of the other countries. A few guys on 6speed had recently picked up their 997.2 GTS for less than $100k band new. We here in Canada, dealers are asking 145-155k for a GTS still and they are not willing to discount. Oh and here in BC we pay 12% tax too. I have been trying to buy this base 997.2 Carrera coupe which dealer wants $97k with cash and they want to to offer me 1k off, yes $1000 off a $97000 car with cash purchase.
Dealer definitely makes more on the deal if you finance.

So see what you can get with a finance deal, and pay it off after 60-90 days if the deal works for you.

Bruce
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2012, 02:57 PM   #56
py0413
Major
py0413's Avatar
Canada
19
Rep
1,178
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 M5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Dealer definitely makes more on the deal if you finance.

So see what you can get with a finance deal, and pay it off after 60-90 days if the deal works for you.

Bruce
they said I could go for 48 or 60 month finance at 3.9% but sales price remains the same. Says it doesn't matter to them if it's cash/lease/finance, that's the price they want for the car. I told them if every buyer is paying the full MSRP, I won't have problem because without those additional discount offered, the cars will retain its resale value. However, the thing is I have heard and seen people getting incredible discounts on the same thing I want to buy, so why I should pay more to them if I can go somewhere and pay less? Canadian market is relatively small and lack of selections, so I am really considering shopping down south in the USA this time.
__________________
Must stop eating..............
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2012, 03:38 PM   #57
1SICKM
Captain
1SICKM's Avatar
15
Rep
975
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mansfield, NJ

iTrader: (5)

My impressions of driving a 991 S.

1. Fantastic performance for a flat 3.8. Impressive acceleration and very close to 996 turbo.
2. Very well balanced and sharp handling. More of a grand touring car compared to the 997.2 which feels much smaller.
3. Don't like PDK compared to BMW DCT. Drove my friends 2012 Turbo S and didn't care for the lack of responsiveness compared to our tranny
4. Price is typicall of Porsche.....way too high relative to the performance your getting.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT...Powered by ESS VT2 650/DCT GTS Software/Aquamist HFS-3 50/50/Morr /Toyo R888's

ATCO RACEWAY: 10.65 @ 131.79MPH 1.725 60FT
(Stock ESS 625)
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2012, 05:05 PM   #58
lenzm3edan
First Pride
lenzm3edan's Avatar
22
Rep
1,412
Posts

 
Drives: E90, Mercedes C300, subi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SICKM View Post
My impressions of driving a 991 S.

1. Fantastic performance for a flat 3.8. Impressive acceleration and very close to 996 turbo.
2. Very well balanced and sharp handling. More of a grand touring car compared to the 997.2 which feels much smaller.
3. Don't like PDK compared to BMW DCT. Drove my friends 2012 Turbo S and didn't care for the lack of responsiveness compared to our tranny
4. Price is typicall of Porsche.....way too high relative to the performance your getting.
I second your comment.
__________________
ESS VT-2 595 silverstone E90 /// M3 - 6spd - AD08 - Spacers - H&R - AA exhaust - Primary cat delete - Custom test pipes - ESS tune - Lighted ZHP.

Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 04:46 AM   #59
barrym
New Member
0
Rep
22
Posts

 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: melbourne

iTrader: (0)

$117K US, try around $300k in Aus for the same spec 991 (that's about $320k US just to make it clear) ..you guys have it sooooo good ... enjoy
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #60
EvosM3
Banned
5
Rep
169
Posts

 
Drives: WTB E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: America

iTrader: (0)

I have already seen several 991s and I love them. However, aesthetically they are little changed and the only way I've been able to discern them from the 997 is if I look at the tail lights.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2012, 05:22 PM   #61
EvosM3
Banned
5
Rep
169
Posts

 
Drives: WTB E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: America

iTrader: (0)

Ok, I just built one on Porsche's website for $133k! That's used Gallardo territory. I'd be all over almost new GT3 RS's and 911 Turbos for that price.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 12:51 AM   #62
rossii
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
294
Posts

 
Drives: with wheels
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

I have always been a fan of the 911 it is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. However they lost me at the 996. The 997 got me interested again and the 991 well is gorgeous the cabriolet takes it to the next level; so much so that I now sell them The 991 is a great divers car its balanced, comfortable and sounds amazing even without the PSE. The PDK is nice but have yet to compare it to the new 7 speed manual. As for the new steering system I driven several 997's including a Turbo S and really didn't feel that much of a difference in everyday driving although the track might be another thing. Yes, pricing can get crazy but I expect the next gen M3 to be up there. Anyone going to BMWCCA Cars and Coffee in SJ this Sun? I will be there "recruiting"

Aftermarket exhaust

__________________
"People who say they love the 'Ring' are either not going fast enough or lying" - Jackie Stewart

Last edited by rossii; 05-04-2012 at 01:00 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 03:55 AM   #63
hakaida442
First Lieutenant
hakaida442's Avatar
3
Rep
371
Posts

 
Drives: 11 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (0)

If the 991 C2S is too expensive at $125k then the new M6 is even more overpriced at that price range. Both are good cars, but in that price range I'm taking the 991.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2012, 08:27 AM   #64
PaneristiDriver
Banned
1
Rep
130
Posts

 
Drives: M3 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Here and there

iTrader: (0)

The 991S is an incredible car. Having spent some time in one, it is astonishing the performance and handling of this car (997 GT3 level); not to mention the looks on both the inside and outside. One thing that stood out was that handling was so crisp and sharp, like a GT3 or Cayman R, and that's saying quite a lot because you know the GT3 is going to be even better and so will the turbo.
No other 400-460 hp car will touch this thing in a straight and especially on a track. On the track, most times show it keeping pace or beating cars with up to ~300 hp more. That says a lot.
The steering IMO is also still up to Porsche standards. Only car Ive personally gotten seat time in that is better is the GT3 RS which means the 991S is still better than everything else out there in steering feel and precision. Its a wonderful system overall. And the new PDK is still IMO the very best dual clutch system, especially now that the tuning is done in house.

We'll be lucky if in two more years the f30/80 m3 can match the straight line acceleration of this car with the extra hp but it sure wont touch the handling or trakc performance.

And to the above, yes, it does sound even better this generation.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2012, 04:45 PM   #65
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver View Post
The 991S is an incredible car. Having spent some time in one, it is astonishing the performance and handling of this car (997 GT3 level); not to mention the looks on both the inside and outside. One thing that stood out was that handling was so crisp and sharp, like a GT3 or Cayman R, and that's saying quite a lot because you know the GT3 is going to be even better and so will the turbo.
No other 400-460 hp car will touch this thing in a straight and especially on a track. On the track, most times show it keeping pace or beating cars with up to ~300 hp more. That says a lot.
The steering IMO is also still up to Porsche standards. Only car Ive personally gotten seat time in that is better is the GT3 RS which means the 991S is still better than everything else out there in steering feel and precision. Its a wonderful system overall. And the new PDK is still IMO the very best dual clutch system, especially now that the tuning is done in house.

We'll be lucky if in two more years the f30/80 m3 can match the straight line acceleration of this car with the extra hp but it sure wont touch the handling or trakc performance.

And to the above, yes, it does sound even better this generation.
the 991S is incredible, however, it only matches the .2 GT3's Ring time when equipped with PDK, SC Plus, PASM, PDCC and a host of other goodies which bring the car > $125k price point. Consider that the MANUAL .2 gt3, otherwise similarly optioned had a sticker of roughly $116K, accelerates faster to 100 and anywhere beyond, has a much higher top speed, is far more track ready than the 991S and infinitely more fun. The GT in front of the 3, 3RS or 2, says it all.

Biased maybe, truthful yes.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2012, 09:17 PM   #66
EvosM3
Banned
5
Rep
169
Posts

 
Drives: WTB E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: America

iTrader: (0)

Yea but the 991s has always been meant as a street car whereas the GT3 has always been a track oriented car. Just compare their interiors.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST