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      02-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
This looks like a post from a tea-partier circa 2006; try updating your battle cry.

And by the way, for a country that was deep into the largest recession since the great depression just 3 years ago, we're doing pretty damn well. Many of us have posted evidence of this in this forum, over the past year or so, so I'm not going to repeat it here. Of course, you're entitled to vehemently disagree, as I'm sure you do. Just be aware that I'm not about to rehash every debate I've had with posters like you. Have a nice day!
First let me say that you know nothing about me, so please do not assume you know who I am or where I come from. Secondly, despite quoting me, I appreciate the fact that you have taken the position you have because I am not going to debate with a socialist ideologue like yourself. The only thing I do agree with you on is the "battle cry," because you are right this is a battle to take back this country. Complacent people that are of the delusion that "we're doing pretty darn well" is what is going to bring down this country. People like you will never agree that a smaller government, less regulation, fewer entitlements and lower taxes for everyone are a good thing for this country. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and to voice that opinion, I mean it is freedoms like that which make this country so great. Perhaps one day when your children are paying the price you will think otherwise, but then again maybe not...

Last edited by cssnms; 02-17-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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      02-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
REALLY??? That is really scary to hear because it would seem to me not only does Obama fall into several of the categories in which you describe, but many others which in my opinion are far worse. He is a liar, a socialist, a man who routinely attended the church of a radical prejudice preacher, a man that worked with and socialized with terrorist Bill Ayers, a man who has surrounded himself with many people in his administration that touch on every one of your categories to include known tax cheats, corruption etc.

It is clear to me you have no idea what is going on with this country right now and are either uninformed or blinded by the man's charisma, which unfortunately descirbes a large majority of people in this country, which in itself is scary to think about. I will take any one of the GOP candidates over a man that is running this great country of ours into the ground; okay Ron Paul scares me a little bit.

This country is lead by a man that believes the government is here to solve everyone's problems. A man that believes in robbing Peter to pay Paul while Paul chose not to get a high school education sits on his ass all day collecting a pay check funded by yours truly and has otherwise no incentive to get a job. A man that believes the government actually "creates" jobs. A man that believes in a government that should regulate every aspect of business and your life to include requiring you to get health care. A man that believes continuing to sink this country into financial oblivion while at the same time borrowing money it does not have from communist China to fund this administration's social programs/agenda at the expense of my children's future. A man that believes he can spend this country into prosperity. A man that believes prosperity is a strong BIG government in which its citizens have become dependent on for their survival. This is a man whose beliefs and agenda fly in the face of this great country's founding principles and has a complete disregard for liberty and freedom.

The average debt you and I owe because of the fiscal irresponsibility of this and past administrations totals approximately $55k for every man, woman and child living in the US and that amount is rapidly growing. I will vote for anyone that is NOT Obama this election, because we cannot afford to continue down the path we are on.
Way to not read anything I have ever posted in the politics/religion forum, take one part of one sentence I typed, and assume you know everything about me.

You sound like someone else I know in these parts of the forums....
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      02-17-2012, 03:24 PM   #69
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You sound like someone else I know in these parts of the forums....
Please don't tell me,,,, S-n-C?
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      02-17-2012, 03:46 PM   #70
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First let me say that you know nothing about me, so please do not assume you know who I am or where I come from.

I am not going to debate with a socialist ideologue like yourself.

People like you will never agree that a smaller government, less regulation, fewer entitlements and lower taxes for everyone are a good thing for this country. Perhaps one day when your children are paying the price you will think otherwise, but then again maybe not...
You need to check the definition of "hypocrite"; it is well illustrated by juxtaposing your first two sentences quoted.

What prompted the first statement, anyway? I noted that the rhetoric in your post was remniscient of a certain "type" - I never claimed anything about you.

I'd love a smaller gov't, and I'd like lower property taxes, but neither of them have or will happen, regardless of who's in office, so I don't whine about it. As far as entitlements, the two significant ones are SSI and Medicaire, and I've yet to hear anything coherent from the repubs on those. Meanwhile, all of you are spending your time complaining about the 1.7% of the population that's on a significant amount of welfare. Get your priorities straight.
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      02-17-2012, 03:52 PM   #71
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Oh, please... what a ridiculous statement. And again, the cluster fuck in Greece has nothing to do with socialism. But more importantly - Obama is so far away from being a socialist as he is a muslim.



so many people dont know what socialism truly is.
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      02-17-2012, 04:08 PM   #72
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There you go again... You are just like your fearless leader 0bama, you can't keep your word. Keep living life with your head burried in the sand, pretty soon it is going to be to late, but something tells me that will be alright with you.



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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You need to check the definition of "hypocrite"; it is well illustrated by juxtaposing your first two sentences quoted.

What prompted the first statement, anyway? I noted that the rhetoric in your post was remniscient of a certain "type" - I never claimed anything about you.

I'd love a smaller gov't, and I'd like lower property taxes, but neither of them have or will happen, regardless of who's in office, so I don't whine about it. As far as entitlements, the two significant ones are SSI and Medicaire, and I've yet to hear anything coherent from the repubs on those. Meanwhile, all of you are spending your time complaining about the 1.7% of the population that's on a significant amount of welfare. Get your priorities straight.
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      02-17-2012, 04:29 PM   #73
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you can't keep your word
...explain?...
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      02-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #74
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I'm not about to rehash every debate I've had with posters like you.
I think I got it! You thought this meant I would completely stop posting?
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      02-17-2012, 04:39 PM   #75
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I disagree with your assesment behind the cause. In fact just about everything that you cited is a bi-product of their socialistic government. While true the government is to big, which is often the case with a socialistic government, Greece's debt crises has little to do with the fact their government employs to many people, as I said it's just a bi-product. The problems lie in an ideaology that a government's roll is to provide for the people. Greece continues to sponsor entitlement programs which it cannot afford, going into debt doing so, not much unlike what is happening in the UK and very much the direction this country is taking. That is why there is rioting, people do not want the government to take away the hand-outs. Laying off government employees is a short-term fix to a problem that runs much deeper. The fact they have "no real economy" is further evidence that a socialistic government does nothing to create jobs or bolster an economy, that's just smoke and mirrors.

cssnms, picking up what im putting down.

If you haven't deduced it from what ive said let me be more specific. Obama in HIS IDEOLOGY would prefer a system as flawed as the one in Greece, the parallels are uncanny. Trust me, im very well read in terms of philosophy and specifically the philosophies that go into coming to political and cultural affiliations. I wasnt trying to bash socialism, i was specific in saying that "type of socialism" because i wanted to highlight the fact that it was an ideology and not necessarily an economic system that is whats getting Greece into trouble.

The ideas that you yourself pointed out about the irresponsibility of the Greek system pervading the minds of its constituency is what im speaking of directly. No idea in economic philosophy or political philosophy is outright bad, its what is done under each. The reason i am economically conservative bordering on libertarian is because it leaves the least room for self destruction. The more pervasive the idea the larger chance of self destruction (not literally, ideologically), when that pervasive thinking is given authority it often times over extends itself into rubble, think Greece.
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      02-17-2012, 11:25 PM   #76
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Dude, I'm not a fan of Obama, and I'm not a democrat, but this statement is just ridiculous. You know who increased our government by a huge f@cking margin? Bush and his republican administration. That was OK then? Give me a break...
at what point did i EVER defend bush? Dont just make the assumption that im a mindless party member. I agree full heartedly that Bush expanded the gov by a wide margin and i think Obama was delighted with that as it was a mandate for his further expansion.
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      02-18-2012, 01:40 AM   #77
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Point taken. But I don't think Obama saw this as a mandate to increase the government. But I think we both agree that this would be a big mistake.
I think he did in a sense. sort of a "well if that guy could do what he did, im going to be able to do soo much with my fan base."
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      02-18-2012, 09:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
REALLY??? That is really scary to hear because it would seem to me not only does Obama fall into several of the categories in which you describe, but many others which in my opinion are far worse. He is a liar, a socialist, a man who routinely attended the church of a radical prejudice preacher, a man that worked with and socialized with terrorist Bill Ayers, a man who has surrounded himself with many people in his administration that touch on every one of your categories to include known tax cheats, corruption etc.

It is clear to me you have no idea what is going on with this country right now and are either uninformed or blinded by the man's charisma, which unfortunately descirbes a large majority of people in this country, which in itself is scary to think about. I will take any one of the GOP candidates over a man that is running this great country of ours into the ground; okay Ron Paul scares me a little bit.

This country is lead by a man that believes the government is here to solve everyone's problems. A man that believes in robbing Peter to pay Paul while Paul chose not to get a high school education sits on his ass all day collecting a pay check funded by yours truly and has otherwise no incentive to get a job. A man that believes the government actually "creates" jobs. A man that believes in a government that should regulate every aspect of business and your life to include requiring you to get health care. A man that believes continuing to sink this country into financial oblivion while at the same time borrowing money it does not have from communist China to fund this administration's social programs/agenda at the expense of my children's future. A man that believes he can spend this country into prosperity. A man that believes prosperity is a strong BIG government in which its citizens have become dependent on for their survival. This is a man whose beliefs and agenda fly in the face of this great country's founding principles and has a complete disregard for liberty and freedom.

The average debt you and I owe because of the fiscal irresponsibility of this and past administrations totals approximately $55k for every man, woman and child living in the US and that amount is rapidly growing. I will vote for anyone that is NOT Obama this election, because we cannot afford to continue down the path we are on.
Maybe it's because I'm German, but I will never understand why socialism is a bad thing? The last time I checked Germany is one of the very view countries on earth that is doing very well... they also built nice cars. People in the US also don't know what socialism is or means.... Germany, and scandinavian companies are all about profit as well, so capitalism and socialism can go hand-in-hand pretty well.

I love how the GOP prides itself with their christian values, but hates socialism, and in fact confuses it (on purpose) with communism. Fail all across the board.
If Japan would have left us alone things would be VERY different...if only
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      02-18-2012, 10:02 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by ghosthi32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Oh, please... what a ridiculous statement. And again, the cluster fuck in Greece has nothing to do with socialism. But more importantly - Obama is so far away from being a socialist as he is a muslim.



so many people dont know what socialism truly is.
I do...and that's why I'm a libertarian...name one multicultural, multinational country with a government that does not censure or oppress some of it's people, some of the time
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      02-18-2012, 10:04 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SehrSchnell
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Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
cssnms, picking up what im putting down.

If you haven't deduced it from what ive said let me be more specific. Obama in HIS IDEOLOGY would prefer a system as flawed as the one in Greece, the parallels are uncanny. Trust me, im very well read in terms of philosophy and specifically the philosophies that go into coming to political and cultural affiliations. I wasnt trying to bash socialism, i was specific in saying that "type of socialism" because i wanted to highlight the fact that it was an ideology and not necessarily an economic system that is whats getting Greece into trouble.

The ideas that you yourself pointed out about the irresponsibility of the Greek system pervading the minds of its constituency is what im speaking of directly. No idea in economic philosophy or political philosophy is outright bad, its what is done under each. The reason i am economically conservative bordering on libertarian is because it leaves the least room for self destruction. The more pervasive the idea the larger chance of self destruction (not literally, ideologically), when that pervasive thinking is given authority it often times over extends itself into rubble, think Greece.
Dude, I'm not a fan of Obama, and I'm not a democrat, but this statement is just ridiculous. You know who increased our government by a huge f@cking margin? Bush and his republican administration. That was OK then? Give me a break...
It was not okay then. The TRUE conservatives worked against those expansions, ie Ron Paul...
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      02-18-2012, 01:15 PM   #81
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It was not okay then. The TRUE conservatives worked against those expansions, ie Ron Paul...
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      02-18-2012, 05:06 PM   #82
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Bush expanded the gov by a wide margin and i think Obama was delighted with that as it was a mandate for his further expansion.... sort of a "well if that guy could do what he did, im going to be able to do soo much with my fan base."
I think this is conservative catch-phrase #1, "growing the gov't". It's bull, a myth. Why would anyone (other than someone looking to get a gov't job) want more gov't to give their taxes to? Obama doesn't, he hasn't, and his "fan base" (as if he's Justin Beiber) doesn't want more gov't.

The 2010 census caused a temporary increase in gov't jobs. Other than that, Obama hasn't launched any new agencies (like Bush did with homeland security, Afghan/Iraq wars, drug czars, etc). And the idea that anyone would want more people on public assistance is idiotic, as is the claim that the jobless are itching to vote for the incumbent.
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      02-18-2012, 06:32 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
I think this is conservative catch-phrase #1, "growing the gov't". It's bull, a myth. Why would anyone (other than someone looking to get a gov't job) want more gov't to give their taxes to? Obama doesn't, he hasn't, and his "fan base" (as if he's Justin Beiber) doesn't want more gov't.

The 2010 census caused a temporary increase in gov't jobs. Other than that, Obama hasn't launched any new agencies (like Bush did with homeland security, Afghan/Iraq wars, drug czars, etc). And the idea that anyone would want more people on public assistance is idiotic, as is the claim that the jobless are itching to vote for the incumbent.
Glad you caught the fan base bit.

The simple answer about who would want government growth the answer is many. Many many people in America are simply stupid. simple. If you dont believe Obama has expanded government your delusional. Really. This isnt a belief topic, it is or it isnt their is nothing to believe or disbelieve.
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      02-18-2012, 09:47 PM   #84
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many people in America are simply stupid. simple. If you dont believe Obama has expanded government your delusional. Really. This isnt a belief topic, it is or it isnt their is nothing to believe or disbelieve.
You must've been debate club president; why don't you offer something other than "people are stupid" and "yes he has"? So far, all you've done is insult me.

Personally, I always think "people are stupid" when I hear someone suggest that raising the top tax rate will lower revenue.
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      02-18-2012, 10:46 PM   #85
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You must've been debate club president; why don't you offer something other than "people are stupid" and "yes he has"? So far, all you've done is insult me.

Personally, I always think "people are stupid" when I hear someone suggest that raising the top tax rate will lower revenue.
Than you agree, many people are very stupid. To illustrate my point, I was gassing up an employees work car some time ago, at the pump was an advertisement for cigarettes after the last huge tax increase. I dont smoke, neither did she, I asked her what she thought about it. She responded "its good because smoking is bad" so i asked, "what if they do this to fast food are sugary drinks?" she responded with "oh no, they wont do that, that would be horrible!". She didnt understand that by allowing one thing to happen, she was in a sense paving the way for another. Maybe its not stupidity, but at the very least ignorance and short sided thought. People constantly do things that will hurt themselves physically, mentally, or otherwise. I have many very obese employees with medical problems caused by their eating, yet when i come into the various locations i see them chowing down on pizza, soda, fried chicken, and burgers. The doctors have told them how to solve the problems they have but they dont care.

I would call that stupidity but your free to call it what you will. Obamacare is a perfect example of that theory but on a much larger scale. Coincidentally it is also an example for your next question on the expansion of government. An ideological expansion can be worse than i physical expansion scotch. Not to mention the parties expansion of HHS and taken control of certain business with the use of SEIU and UAW investment money. The investment as part of TARP play into that as well. Though im sure you dont remember, TARP 1 was initially slated to buy toxic debt of financial books. We now know that instead of doing this, it invested in these companies. Gov. funds come with MANY strings attached, and many ex Goldman employees can and did say what this caused. It also of course didnt solve the problem as you cant solve the issue by just buying a stake.

Dont forget about the governments expansion into making horrible investments as of late in the guise of "thinking green" despite various obvious political affiliations. Not need to bring up Bush, scotch, though i know you want to its the same thing. we both agree on that subject.
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      02-19-2012, 01:40 PM   #86
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Dude, I didn't ask for an example of how people can be stupid.
You never answered my question - what evidence do you have that "all democrats want to expand government" and that "Obama has expanded gov't more than anyone in history"? So far, you haven't given me any, because these platitudes are just bullshit stereotypes that are trotted-out every election cycle by conservatives.

None of the repub admins have shrunk gov't, and none of the dem admins have grown it, to any significant degree that one could distinguish between the two. In fact, all the hawks that want to expand our military and make a missionary tour of the world are right-wingers, and that idea most certainly grows our gov't.

Here's a closing thought: instead of worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations, and who will always be there regardless of who's in charge, think about all those Christian conservative families with 5, 6, or 8 kids, who are paying the same property taxes, income taxes, and medical insurance costs as a family with 1 kid, but are freeloading on the system big-time, and overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry. All because some couple thinks that the world needs a whole bunch more people just like them. Presidential candidate Rick Santorum is the poster child for this sick type of Christian conservative freeloading - it's literally the most selfish thing a person can do.
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      02-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #87
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Unhappy HISTORY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post

what evidence do you have that "all democrats want to expand government"
Oh about 100+ years or so worth of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post

and that "Obama has expanded gov't more than anyone in history"?.
How many CZARS has he recreated and the BS that goes with them....??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post

Here's a closing thought: instead of worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations, and who will always be there regardless of who's in charge, think about all those Christian conservative families with 5, 6, or 8 kids, who are paying the same property taxes, income taxes, and medical insurance costs as a family with 1 kid, but are freeloading on the system big-time, and overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry. All because some couple thinks that the world needs a whole bunch more people just like them. Presidential candidate Rick Santorum is the poster child for this sick type of Christian conservative freeloading - it's literally the most selfish thing a person can do.
Numbers, numbers, numbers. How many 5,6,8 child families are in your neighborhood...?? If you are going to quote numbers please do so by the percentage of 8 child families verse 1 or 2 child families nation wide.

And you speak of Christian conservative freeloading and "overburdening our schools and our healthcare industry." I personally know of a minority gentleman who has fathered 17 children by 6 different ladies in our community. But who is "worrying about the 1.7% of welfare recipients who have been there throughout a dozen administrations." Or at least since the Johnson administration, who BTW gave us "The Great Society", "War on poverty" and Vietnam...!
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      02-19-2012, 04:11 PM   #88
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Oh about 100+ years or so worth of History
That's a cop-out, it's just not a valid stereotype in our modern society. By the same "historical perspective" one can say that the republican party was very much aligned with the libertarian party, but in recent times, that's not the case, look at Ron Paul in the debates.
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Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
How many CZARS has he recreated and the BS that goes with them....??
You're thinking of GW Bush, the white guy that would say "newk-u-lar".
Quote:
Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
Numbers, numbers, numbers. How many 5,6,8 child families are in your neighborhood...?? If you are going to quote numbers please do so by the percentage of 8 child families verse 1 or 2 child families nation wide.
I really don't see how the percentage makes a rat's ass of a difference, it's quite common, especially if you include 3 and 4 child families, which is still above the norm. Fact is, us "typical" families are footing the bill for the 3-kid-and-up families.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
I personally know of a minority gentleman who has fathered 17 children by 6 different ladies in our community.
You know Herman Cain?
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