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      02-11-2012, 10:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
RS29 is a great choice because it offers med-high bite (coefficient of friction 0.49 max) up to 1,100 deg. F and is easy on rotors. Also known for its low wear rate.

If you want something more aggressive, I now carry Project Mu's Club Racer compound (coefficient of friction 0.55 max) with a recommendation from my friends at Brass Monkey Racing. They used to run DTC-70 on their race car, but switched to Project Mu because PMu pads are much easier on the rotors while providing virtually zero fade performance up to 1,400 deg. F.
How do the RS29s compare to the PF01s? I love the PF01s bite and fate resistance. Do hate how they eat rotors and the noise. I used to like the garbage truck squealing but its gotten old.
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      02-12-2012, 09:31 PM   #24
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How do the RS29s compare to the PF01s? I love the PF01s bite and fate resistance. Do hate how they eat rotors and the noise. I used to like the garbage truck squealing but its gotten old.
The RS-29 would probably compare better to the PF-06, both being rated as more of an enduro pad.

I didn't know the PF-01s were so rotor un-friendly. I know Martin D. (and others) swear by them, but I guess he can afford to replace them like every other event!

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RS29 is a great choice because it offers med-high bite (coefficient of friction 0.49 max) up to 1,100 deg. F and is easy on rotors. Also known for its low wear ...
Richard, I've heard that as well. But in general terms, I can't figure out how a long wearing pad can be easy on rotors at the same time. Both are deteriorating surfaces that get worn away like sandpaper with friction over time. One surface has to be harder or more resilient than the other one. A pad that lasts long would do so at the expense of the rotor, and vice-versa. With friction and heat,seems something's got to wear off/out. To me it seems intuitive that enduro pads would be rotor eaters.

Maybe I've been watching too much Discovery channel...
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      02-13-2012, 01:50 AM   #25
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The RS-29 would probably compare better to the PF-06, both being rated as more of an enduro pad.

I didn't know the PF-01s were so rotor un-friendly. I know Martin D. (and others) swear by them, but I guess he can afford to replace them like every other event!
I should have mentioned that the rotor wear applies when they are cold. The PF01s are not a very good choice for dual use. Because when cold, the pads also wear quicker and you get crap stopping power.
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      02-13-2012, 01:51 AM   #26
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I should have mentioned that the rotor wear applies when they are cold. The PF01s are not a very good choice for dual use. Because when cold, the pads also wear quicker and you get crap stopping power.
But when the PF01's warm up they're really nice.

Besides the ST friction rings are relatively inexpensive - much less than brembos.
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      02-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #27
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But when the PF01's warm up they're really nice.

Besides the ST friction rings are relatively inexpensive - much less than brembos.
The problem is the PFC pads are so expensive!
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      02-13-2012, 01:09 PM   #28
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The problem is the PFC pads are so expensive!
Yeah they are but they last a long long time - as do most race compounds. They'll outlast street pads many times over and I dare say twice some of the street/track pads. I love how carbontech pads feel but they get eaten up so fast!

Another alternative race pad is the cobalt XR1. I'd say it's a tad bit better than the PFC01 - but also pricey.

If you take the track pads off after your track days and not run them on the street they will last a long time.
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      02-13-2012, 05:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
Yeah they are but they last a long long time - as do most race compounds. They'll outlast street pads many times over and I dare say twice some of the street/track pads. I love how carbontech pads feel but they get eaten up so fast!

Another alternative race pad is the cobalt XR1. I'd say it's a tad bit better than the PFC01 - but also pricey.

If you take the track pads off after your track days and not run them on the street they will last a long time.
I've got 5 weekends off of my current set of PF01s on my 330...expect to get 2 or 3 more. I've been pretty diligent about changing pads right before and after the track. The squealing provides extra motivation as well.

Before I was lazy so the pads didn't last as long. And I'm pretty sure the ST rotors run significantly cooler that what I was using before.
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      02-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've got 5 weekends off of my current set of PF01s on my 330...expect to get 2 or 3 more. I've been pretty diligent about changing pads right before and after the track. The squealing provides extra motivation as well.

Before I was lazy so the pads didn't last as long. And I'm pretty sure the ST rotors run significantly cooler that what I was using before.
Cooler means even longer life.

I ran onelap last year with PF01's on stock calipers and at the end of the 8 day event I inspected the pads and they still had TONS left. Unfortunately I left them on and street use wore them down.

Then I gave xr1's a try (stock calipers) and they have just a tad better release.

Now that I've got the st60 kit I have no use for the pfc01 and xr1 for the stock caliper Gotta get me some for the st60
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      02-13-2012, 08:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
How do the RS29s compare to the PF01s? I love the PF01s bite and fate resistance. Do hate how they eat rotors and the noise. I used to like the garbage truck squealing but its gotten old.
The RS-29 would probably compare better to the PF-06, both being rated as more of an enduro pad.

I didn't know the PF-01s were so rotor un-friendly. I know Martin D. (and others) swear by them, but I guess he can afford to replace them like every other event!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
RS29 is a great choice because it offers med-high bite (coefficient of friction 0.49 max) up to 1,100 deg. F and is easy on rotors. Also known for its low wear ...
Richard, I've heard that as well. But in general terms, I can't figure out how a long wearing pad can be easy on rotors at the same time. Both are deteriorating surfaces that get worn away like sandpaper with friction over time. One surface has to be harder or more resilient than the other one. A pad that lasts long would do so at the expense of the rotor, and vice-versa. With friction and heat,seems something's got to wear off/out. To me it seems intuitive that enduro pads would be rotor eaters.

Maybe I've been watching too much Discovery channel...
I think you make a good point about the wear but will have to say that they lasted about 9-10 events for me with some minor rotor cracking. Installed new rotors after the end of last year, they lasted for over 20 with the rs-29's making up about half that time. Am starting off the year with the Pagids and will be much more aware of pad and rotor wear this year and will report back.
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      09-13-2013, 10:51 AM   #32
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Bump up for my take on the Stoptech SP pads. I was able to go with the bare essentials in track upgrades this year but knew I would have to wait for a BBK until next year. After dumping money into wheels, tires, and camber plates, I was looking for a budget pad that would be better than stock. I also preferred to not be changing pads as the stock calipers are a bit of a pain to work with. Heat management is obviously my primary concern and per emails with Stoptech, their Street Performance pad has a MOT up to about 1300F which is good.

I flushed with ATE super blue and put Stoptech pads on front and rear back in April and ran 3 days in the spring and 3 in the summer. I didn't push them to their limits until the last day (yesterday) but feel that I was safely at their full abilities. At Pacific Raceways there are 10 turns and turn 2 ends a long straight where our cars can see 150mph. Braking before turns 2 and 3a are the hardest braking points and besides these points, the track is not hard on brakes.

For turn 2 I was consistently somewhere between 140-150 for multiple laps (no traffic), braking down to about 60-70 for turn-in, accelerating to 100-110 then braking downhill to about 35 at 3A. Bite began to suffer some after 1-2 laps and pedal became softer after 3 laps but power was always there. I did have to brake harder due to some fade, but I never felt like there were any concerning control issues. Release is pretty gentle as these pads don't bite hard and pad wear is as expected, some loss but not major. Rotor wear has been minimal and dusting is moderate. I'm running NT05s square 275s this year and air temps for yesterdays session started at about 65F then up to 80F.

All in all these pads work very well as a budget option for my location and I would definitely recommend them for here in the Seattle area where temps aren't extreme and our tracks aren't brutal on brakes. On the street they have less initial bite than OEM but otherwise are about the same. Next year I'll be going with an ST60 front kit, SS lines all around, and likely try running the same pads.
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      09-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #33
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^Nice review. I have been running Stoptech street pads on stock rotors, with ATE fluid and ST stainless lines. I have been very happy with these so far. I am just getting up into the intermediate run groups so my speeds are moderate. I predominitly track at Lime Rock, where there is one big braking zone going from the main straight into big bend. I am generally hitting about 130mph on the straight and trail braking down to about 75 through turn one. There are a few other moderate braking zones but overall I am not on the brakes a whole lot. I've done 9 track days there this year with no issues. I just changed out the front pads yesterday for my trip to the Glen this week. They work well for me on the track and are very livable on the street, with no noise and moderate dust. I will continue using these until they give me a reason to change.
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      09-16-2013, 10:35 PM   #34
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I was speaking with Stoptech today and they advised a more aggressive street driving style with their Street Performance Pads. He explained that if I wasn't braking harder than usual (Usual being mainly gentle slow braking or braking early) I would get some pad transfer. He suggested their mother companies ceramic pads. Centric Ceramic Pads I believe. I'd like to give the Street Performance Pads a try but I don't brake so hard so often.

Anyone have experience with moderate or light braking with street use and pad transfer?

Thanks
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      09-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #35
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I'm with this. I'm still learning to drive and these have been good, using stock rotors, stock brake lines, Motul fluid, and summer street tires, on three different tracks (Summit Point, Summit Point Jefferson, and VIR North Course). No fading problems, even on super-hot days. But different driving styles and different tracks exact different reactions, so YMMV.

I say if you're starting on a budget you have nothing to lose buying these, because you can put them on the shelf and use them as street pads down the road if you don't like them as track pads.

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Bump up for my take on the Stoptech SP pads. I was able to go with the bare essentials in track upgrades this year but knew I would have to wait for a BBK until next year. After dumping money into wheels, tires, and camber plates, I was looking for a budget pad that would be better than stock. I also preferred to not be changing pads as the stock calipers are a bit of a pain to work with. Heat management is obviously my primary concern and per emails with Stoptech, their Street Performance pad has a MOT up to about 1300F which is good.

I flushed with ATE super blue and put Stoptech pads on front and rear back in April and ran 3 days in the spring and 3 in the summer. I didn't push them to their limits until the last day (yesterday) but feel that I was safely at their full abilities. At Pacific Raceways there are 10 turns and turn 2 ends a long straight where our cars can see 150mph. Braking before turns 2 and 3a are the hardest braking points and besides these points, the track is not hard on brakes.

For turn 2 I was consistently somewhere between 140-150 for multiple laps (no traffic), braking down to about 60-70 for turn-in, accelerating to 100-110 then braking downhill to about 35 at 3A. Bite began to suffer some after 1-2 laps and pedal became softer after 3 laps but power was always there. I did have to brake harder due to some fade, but I never felt like there were any concerning control issues. Release is pretty gentle as these pads don't bite hard and pad wear is as expected, some loss but not major. Rotor wear has been minimal and dusting is moderate. I'm running NT05s square 275s this year and air temps for yesterdays session started at about 65F then up to 80F.

All in all these pads work very well as a budget option for my location and I would definitely recommend them for here in the Seattle area where temps aren't extreme and our tracks aren't brutal on brakes. On the street they have less initial bite than OEM but otherwise are about the same. Next year I'll be going with an ST60 front kit, SS lines all around, and likely try running the same pads.
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      09-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #36
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I was speaking with Stoptech today and they advised a more aggressive street driving style with their Street Performance Pads. He explained that if I wasn't braking harder than usual (Usual being mainly gentle slow braking or braking early) I would get some pad transfer. He suggested their mother companies ceramic pads. Centric Ceramic Pads I believe. I'd like to give the Street Performance Pads a try but I don't brake so hard so often.

Anyone have experience with moderate or light braking with street use and pad transfer?

Thanks
I've had no trouble using these on the streets with normal driving.
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      09-17-2013, 01:59 PM   #37
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I have been running the StopTech Street pads for over a year. No track. I drive hard only a small percentage of the time, which is about all you can get away with safely when driving on the street. No issues with pad transfer to the rotors that I am aware of.
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      09-17-2013, 05:49 PM   #38
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I've had no trouble using these on the streets with normal driving.
When you mean normal driving like rare hard braking and generally easy/gentle braking?

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I have been running the StopTech Street pads for over a year. No track. I drive hard only a small percentage of the time, which is about all you can get away with safely when driving on the street. No issues with pad transfer to the rotors that I am aware of.
Nice. Your driving habits is basically the same as mine. How about brake dust? Are you getting a lot with yours?
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      09-18-2013, 10:12 AM   #39
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When you mean normal driving like rare hard braking and generally easy/gentle braking?
It's mostly commuting traffic in a major metro area. Stop and go, some expressway, some surface roads. Probably one panic stop a month from 40 to 0 with the pedal to the floor, when I get caught behind a collapsing accordian of cars on the 14th Street Bridge or the Roosevelt.

For street I run OEM BMW as my "regular" pad but the Stoptech Street Performance pads are what I'm using at the track these days (I'm a beginner) and I often get lazy and just leave them on the car for a month or more between HPDE weekends.

I would not bother putting the regular pads back in, frankly, but I'm tracking the car under warranty so I make everything look stock-stock-stock before I take it in to the dealer. That's why I don't run stainless brake lines. I just replace the stock ones annually. From my experience on my E21 with both types (and from what I've read), stainless makes a difference but mostly only in brake response time -- you only have to push the pedal a tiny bit longer and an tiny bit harder to get the same result with fresh rubber lines, which have a stiff mesh laminated into the tube. But you do need to replace rubber annually if you track with it, because the lines tend to collapse with age, and then it really does take longer from pedal input to caliper piston extension.
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      09-20-2013, 10:27 AM   #40
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This works with the ladies too...
HAHAHA

anyway I just picked up the ST streets after I cooked the OEM pads after 2 track days. I should be able to get one more track day in this season it seems so I am anxious to see how they perform. I just put them on this weekend but they feel pretty good so far. I agree with OP they have a more "natural feel" I was used to the initial bite of the stock pads so much that I initially felt like the ST werent working correctly, but so far it feels like they are stopping just fine
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      09-21-2013, 06:57 AM   #41
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Nice. Your driving habits is basically the same as mine. How about brake dust? Are you getting a lot with yours?
Yes, there is brake dust. Seems about like stock. Probably more than with a ceramic pad (I have run stock, Axxis Ultimate ceramic, Centric Posi Quiet Semi Metallic, and StopTech Street on my E36M3 and the ceramics dusted the least on that car)
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      10-01-2013, 11:41 AM   #42
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A while back I switched from OEM pads to StopTech Street Performance as my street and track pad because after a particular track weekend on OEM pads, I had major steering wheel vibrations under braking for weeks afterward. I figured it was uneven pad deposits, which a mechanic/instructor I trust thought had been caused by the OEM pads overheating on the track. The vibration was ultimately solved by the dealer giving me a new set of front pads and rotors under warranty/Ultimate Service, even after I disclosed that it had happened at the track, but I knew they wouldn't keep doing that, hence the switch. Here are my observations and how I've progressed since then:

On the road, they're basically OEM with the exception that on colder days (~50 F), the first couple of stops definitely have less bite. Definitely not a pucker-inducing "I'm about to rear-end someone" lack of bite, just slightly less than OEM. But that goes away after a couple stops and isn't even noticeable when it's warmer out. Other than that, in terms of dust levels and noise (none), they're exactly like OEM. I haven't had any problems with pad transfer when driving them soft or hard on the road.

On the track, I was in Blue group at that time and running Texas World Speedway, which as BigJae mentions is fairly gentle on brakes overall. These pads solved my post-event vibration problems, and fade resistance was MUCH better. I still faded them a bit as I got faster, but it was a huge improvement. Pedal feel was about the same as OEM in that they did occasionally feel mushy (wasn't due to my SRF brake fluid, and it would come and go on consecutive turns sometimes). They do wear faster than OEM on the track, but they're also pretty inexpensive, so I was fine with that.

I have since moved into Yellow group and have installed a BBK on the front axle only. I still use these pads on the road, but at the track I now run PFC 08s in the front BBK and keep the StopTech Street Performance pads in the stock rear calipers. My first time with that setup was this past weekend and I was very happy with the result.

I won't go into detail here about the PFC 08s to avoid going off-topic, but for people who swap street and race pads, I will mention that my strategy was to install the PFCs a week before the track and drive lightly to let the race pads scrape the street deposits off so that the rotors would be clean by the time I got to the track. Then after the event I'll keep them in for a few more days again driving them lightly so they scrape their own deposits off before I reinstall my street pads. Race pads are much more effective scrapers than street pads because they're more abrasive overall and more importantly remain in "scrape mode" rather than "pad transfer mode" until a much higher temperature, greatly reducing the risk of having a mixed street/race (and potentially uneven) pad transfer layer that might occur if you tried to scrape deposits off with a street pad.
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      10-01-2013, 12:38 PM   #43
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Anyone have any data on Stoptech Performance pads vs Cool Carbon S/T pads? They look similar in specs but no direct comparisons... Stoptech is cheaper though.
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