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      01-29-2012, 08:15 PM   #1
persian54
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How to get air out of the ABS Pump?

There's a possibility that air may have gotten trapped into my ABS pump

If this is the case, other than going to the dealer and having them fix it, what's the best solution?

I found out that when my StopTech SS lines were originally installed a couple months ago, they weren't tight enough. Also, there were leaks around the line areas... and when the brakes were bleed, there was a lot of air...
I originally thought i had crappy pedal feel cause I boiled my Motul 600, but it seems that wasn't the only issue (air being the main one). Before the BBK, I had to push my pedal far down, almost to the floor, to even stop at parking lot speeds. When I pressed hard, the car stopped no problem...I just had to push the pedal down to the floor..

I had a StopTech Trophy BBK installed very recently.
When I brake, the car stops. But the pedal doesn't feel firm (or as firm as I'd like it). Much better than before the BBK though... that's for sure.
I need to push it in more than I want to...
my grandma's altima has a more responsible pedal! (car is only 2months old, but it's an altima lol)

No I have no bed the pads in, I will do that today.

But both the tech (not the same person that did a bad SS Line install months ago) that installed the BBK and a friend whom I get advice from (he's been involved with track cars longer than I've been allowed to drive) both mentioned the possibility of air in the ABS pump (or worse, a damaged ABS system), so thus this is one area I would like to address.

Anyway to get this addressed other than the dealer?
As I've heard you need to use the BMW computer to pressurize the line and such...
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      01-31-2012, 03:09 PM   #2
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Bed in your pads first. I had abysmal pedal feel until the brakes were probably bedded.

EDIT

Also, make sure the brakes were bled in the right order. I'm not sure what the order is on the M3 but, on my RSX, it's some strange order that I have to always the check the shop manual for. Mainly with the brakes being connected diagonally, so that if one of the lines break, the opposite corners will still work.
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      01-31-2012, 03:23 PM   #3
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Properly bedded pads will make a difference in feel, for sure.

Many shops will use a pressure bleeder to bleed through the brake system quickly, but I am not sold on this being the best option.

You should manually bleed your brakes-

Pump the brake pedal several times (you should feel pedal pressure increase)

Hold the brake pedal down firmly.

While holding the pedal, have a friend open the bleed screw, hold it open for a second, and close it again. Do not let the pedal go up while your friend is doing this, as this will re-introduce air into the system.

Go around the car and continue the bleeding process, starting with the corner that is furthest from the driver first. So on a left hand drive M3, you would do the passenger (right) rear corner first, then the left rear, then the right front, and finally the left front.

I like to go through each bleed screw three times or more, before moving on to the next corner of the car. I also like to go around the whole car several times.

Don't forget to refill the brake fluid reservoir as you bleed the brakes! If the level goes down below minimum you may once again introduce air into the system.

If the procedure is followed correctly, a manually bled brake system will have excellent performance and no air in the system.
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      01-31-2012, 04:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
Properly bedded pads will make a difference in feel, for sure.

Many shops will use a pressure bleeder to bleed through the brake system quickly, but I am not sold on this being the best option.

You should manually bleed your brakes-

Pump the brake pedal several times (you should feel pedal pressure increase)

Hold the brake pedal down firmly.

While holding the pedal, have a friend open the bleed screw, hold it open for a second, and close it again. Do not let the pedal go up while your friend is doing this, as this will re-introduce air into the system.

Go around the car and continue the bleeding process, starting with the corner that is furthest from the driver first. So on a left hand drive M3, you would do the passenger (right) rear corner first, then the left rear, then the right front, and finally the left front.

I like to go through each bleed screw three times or more, before moving on to the next corner of the car. I also like to go around the whole car several times.

Don't forget to refill the brake fluid reservoir as you bleed the brakes! If the level goes down below minimum you may once again introduce air into the system.

If the procedure is followed correctly, a manually bled brake system will have excellent performance and no air in the system.
Ilia, that is exactly how I bled his brakes for him this past weekend for his Stoptech Trophy kit.

The previous installer did not tighten all the lines down, mainly the passenger front, and had brake fluid sprayed all through out the wheel well and line.

I bled each nipple on each caliper 7 times. I do believe that his ABS pump may be in trouble due to the amount of air that was introduced previously.
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      01-31-2012, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Ilia, that is exactly how I bled his brakes for him this past weekend for his Stoptech Trophy kit.

The previous installer did not tighten all the lines down, mainly the passenger front, and had brake fluid sprayed all through out the wheel well and line.
Yeah, this is why I raised this question regarding the ABS Pump as you mentioned air could have gotten into it.

Here are 2 iPhone pics from this weekend:



Though I'm sure you have better pictures as the iPhone's camera is not the best.

Last edited by persian54; 01-31-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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      01-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #6
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Probably not the cause of your brake pedal feel, but your calipers are installed on the wrong sides. The bleed nipple should point up.
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      01-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #7
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The bleed screws facing down would contribute to poor pedal feel. The bleed point should be the upper most point on the caliper, not the lowest.
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      01-31-2012, 05:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew313 View Post
Probably not the cause of your brake pedal feel, but your calipers are installed on the wrong sides. The bleed nipple should point up.
The could very possibly prevent all the air from getting bled out.
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      01-31-2012, 05:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Yeah, this is why I raised this question regarding the ABS Pump as you mentioned air could have gotten into it.

Here are 2 iPhone pics from this weekend:



Though I'm sure you have better pictures as the iPhone's camera is not the best.
Sean, can you get a better pic of the brakes with the car together? They look like installed upside down to me???? How could you not getting air when you put your calipers like that??
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      01-31-2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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Didn't mean for this thread to turn into bleeder screw vs abs pump

But good to know.....
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      01-31-2012, 06:34 PM   #11
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Wow! The calipers are on the wrong side of the car; they are upside down! The air will rise to the top of the caliper, and with the bleeder screw on the bottom, it will never be bled out. Your calipers are probably FULL of air.

I wouldn't drive it until that's corrected. When you drive it after this is fixed, make sure you don't hit your face on the steering wheel the first time you press the brakes!
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      01-31-2012, 06:54 PM   #12
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And this, gentlemen, is why I do my own brake and suspension work.
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      01-31-2012, 06:56 PM   #13
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This was how one StopTech rep advised on the install.

Will be corrected Thursday afternoon-ish
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      01-31-2012, 06:57 PM   #14
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      01-31-2012, 07:22 PM   #15
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now now let's get back on topic.. where can I go, either than the dealer, if I needed my ABS system etc flushed?
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      01-31-2012, 08:02 PM   #16
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Did you take your car to a High School Auto Shop?

Amazing.
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      01-31-2012, 08:13 PM   #17
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lololol.... who ever installed this kit should not be working on cars. The person who rebled your brakes should have noticed that instantly. You should stop dealing with incompetent shops, find yourself a shop that knows what they're doing.


A bad situation for you but I find it hilarious that the calipers are installed the wrong way, total noob move.
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      01-31-2012, 08:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
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lololol.... who ever installed this kit should not be working on cars. The person who rebled your brakes should have noticed that instantly. You should stop dealing with incompetent shops, find yourself a shop that knows what they're doing.


A bad situation for you but I find it hilarious that the calipers are installed the wrong way, total noob move.
I agree!

Are these the two so-called "techs" that worked on your car?

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      01-31-2012, 08:46 PM   #19
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Once your calipers are installed correctly, like others have stated, you'll get a much improved bleed and any air trapped in the calipers will be removed. This by itself may address your soft pedal and/or poor brake performance/feel.

If you think air is still trapped in the ABS pump then the only way I know how to remove air from the pump is at the dealer - need to cycle the pump while bleeding the system.
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      01-31-2012, 09:00 PM   #20
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ABS pump can be cycled with Autologic.

Once the calipers are mounted and bled, everything should be back in place.
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      01-31-2012, 10:22 PM   #21
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I agree!

Are these the two so-called "techs" that worked on your car?

I lol'd.... They're engineers too!

Last edited by Elementary; 02-01-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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      02-01-2012, 01:58 AM   #22
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After reading this thread, I think I know which local shop not to take it to.
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