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      01-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #23
UltimateBMW
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Originally Posted by MetsFan View Post
shop.onkyo.com has some good deals on their refurbished page from time to time. I picked up my 5.1 system a few years ago for $120 through them.
I've heard great things about Onkyo. I would suggest looking into this brand first.

Just found this on newegg.com, looks fantastic to me.

Price in Cart: $699.99
ONKYO HT-S8409 7.1 Channel Home Theater System
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882120192
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      01-23-2012, 05:34 PM   #24
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I bought the Bose 3-2-1 system about 7-8 years ago.
I have a log home so running speaker wire is a problem and as much as I wanted to use my Yamaha system I already had it looked like shit.
The Bose system has been rock solid and sounds decent, but it will never compare to a true theater setup.
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      01-23-2012, 06:26 PM   #25
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Speaker are like cars, you have these audiophiles who will tell you what is best and why one is better than the others and totally forget the fact that most people would never experience and lack the knowledge and appreciation to even know the difference.

I have a friend who is a real audiophile and still listed to his music from vinyl since he claims the sound is more pure. He will sit there and tell you how much better and show you how each sound different, problem is unless you have a trained ear you will not hear what he is talking about.

Most people, including me can not hear the things these experts are claiming are important. If you can not hear the difference do not pay or buy it or just buy what you like as you would do with a car.

I do not think anyone would argue that with enough time and money you can put together a system which will out perform any Bose system. However, if you are not a sound engineer or have a trained ear, buy what works for you because you most likely will not be able to tell the difference.

To refute a couple point this guy made on that website, to back up my point, he talked about how the Bose do now work from 20Hz to 25KHz, true but why do you care, he is trying to claim even if you can not hear it you body some how does, interest claim. However here are the facts, and you can look this up, and I can tell you my son did project on this as well, most people can not hear above 15K actually it is age thing the older you get the higher and lower frequencies drop off, kids under 18 can hear 17KHz and up to 19KHz and the few odd ones can actually hear 20KHz, once you hit around 18 or so your ability to hear above 15K decrease quickly. So if you can not hear it why speak money trying to produce the sound.

He also attempted to state that if you listen to music which covers the entire range you losing the highs and lows, again who cares, most music people listen to do not cover such a large range, why because most people can not hear it so most sound engineers do not bother.

Then this person went into what the speaker are constructed of, again who cares and plus he is making statements of fact and does not back them up other than to say it look to him. Did he actually go out and tear all the various speaks apart and send them to a lab and have them analysis, of course not, he just trying to make a point they some how use cheaper material then anyone else. Not sure how much that is true. The best comment was that the speaker box allow emission of EMI and Magnetic field. Yeah all speaker do that, very few actually put shielding of any sort inside them, again who cares, unless you put your speaker next to an old tube TV the magnetic field are not an issue nor is EMI. EMI is only an issue in the 100's of KHz not on the low end.

As with a car go test drive them and stop listen to the experts, because you will end up buying something that cost more, and you can not tell the difference. I test drove a number of speaker and went to sound rooms at a audio store and for the most part I could hardly tell the difference. Bose can fill a room with sound as with many speaker the interesting part is you could hardly tell where the sound was coming from. I know this is what bothers many experts, because the make the comment they want to know and feel where the sound is coming from.

I will tell you this much, generally a package deals are okay if you do not have the knowledge or skills to piece it together yourself. However, Speaker tend to last far longer than the electronics, so my personal view is to separate them, buy good speaker that sound good to you and buy the electronics that meet your needs and update them as time goes on.

I have a couple of speaker systems in my house, and I still like my Bose and they are 20 yrs old so they are not the complete system. and they sound as good today as they sounded when I first got them and they are smaller than any of my other sets and sound as good and I never had any one come to my place and said they sound bad or horrible other than my audiophile friend, but that is a personal issue of his.
A/B some other speakers vs the Bose satellites. Hell, if you can figure out a way to A/B one of those WAF POS satellite complete systems vs some entry level bookshelves I believe your opinion would change. Unless you can directly A/B them with another speaker you can't really tell how bad they suck because all you know is they sound better than the TV.

For $1000 I can put together a system that would blow any comparably priced BOSE system out of the water.

Edit: OP here is a suggestion, and add an entry level receiver from Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc. You will be light years ahead of BOSE in terms of sound quality and volume.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html

Last edited by JCE; 01-23-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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      01-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #26
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A/B some other speakers vs the Bose satellites. Hell, if you can figure out a way to A/B one of those WAF POS satellite complete systems vs some entry level bookshelves I believe your opinion would change. Unless you can directly A/B them with another speaker you can't really tell how bad they suck because all you know is they sound better than the TV.

For $1000 I can put together a system that would blow any comparably priced BOSE system out of the water.

Edit: OP here is a suggestion, and add an entry level receiver from Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc. You will be light years ahead of BOSE in terms of sound quality and volume.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html

+1

This is exactly what I was trying to say as well. Having worked at Tweeter for a number of years, I have A/B'ed Bose with many other systems and Bose was no where close to their competition at even half of the Bose's price point. I have heard $500 HTIB systems that blew the top of the line $3k Bose Acoustimass system out of the water.

That didn't stop me from selling a ton of Bose products though. Profit margins were huge plus there were additional kickback directly from Bose. Easiest sales to make too since everyone has heard of Bose. The other big name brands would still require a lot of "selling" before I could convince the customer they are a legitimate company.

Bose excels in one thing and one thing only... marketing. They absolutely own the brand recognition game.
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      01-23-2012, 08:06 PM   #27
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Some good info here, but let me just say...you absolutely don't have to be an audiophile to tell the difference between Bose products and a decent 5.1 setup with 5 actual speakers, a decent sub, and a decent receiver. Bose sells snake oil and tries to tell you additional speakers are unnecessary because they have technology that understands "the way we hear." BS. You can't substitute actual speakers with the correct placement and 3 speakers doesn't make true surround. Furthermore, Bose crap doesn't work well with other components, making it a hassle to mix and match.
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      01-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #28
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daix - My sister has a BOSE wireless docking station, and it sounds pretty good. I have read about their headphones being good as well. But, I refuse to even consider purchasing a BOSE product because of the vast markup of their cheap systems made pennies on the dollar, with their "fans" touting how good they are. I'm all for capitalism and I have zero problem with BOSE taking these people to the cleaners and you making a living off of it, but count me out.

Like you say, Onkyo is known for their HTIB's and I would look at that if OP doesn't want to deal with putting together a system. It would sound way better than the BOSE systems you see hanging around living rooms all over the place, and especially that 2.1 system he is considering.

BTW, I bought my first SR receiver from Tweeter, Elite VSX-52TX. It was a floor model and I got a good deal I think it was about $500 and this was in 2005. I still have it in the attic, on sale on craigslist for about 4 months lol.
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      01-23-2012, 08:15 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
Some good info here, but let me just say...you absolutely don't have to be an audiophile to tell the difference between Bose products and a decent 5.1 setup with 5 actual speakers, a decent sub, and a decent receiver. Bose sells snake oil and tries to tell you additional speakers are unnecessary because they have technology that understands "the way we hear." BS. You can't substitute actual speakers with the correct placement and 3 speakers doesn't make true surround. Furthermore, Bose crap doesn't work well with other components, making it a hassle to mix and match.
No audiophile reqd; all you need are ears and something to compare it to other than the TV.
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      01-23-2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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No audiophile reqd; all you need are ears and something to compare it to other than the TV.
+1

That "audiophile" thing is really a huge misconception. You really don't need a trained ear to tell the difference. You just need a good point of reference. Most Bose fans swear by these products because they only have TV speakers to compare against and certainly anything will sound better than that.

Bose makes a very niche product, something with brand recognition, sleek/WAF-friendly designs, highly integrated and easy to setup/operate system. So if that is what you want, then Bose is for you. Just be aware that having all the above qualities means you will be sacrificing performance and will be spending a small fortune to get it. My only beef is the misconception that Bose makes a performance-oriented system that is anywhere close to its competitors in that price segment. In terms of sheer performance, the Bose surround systems are no better than basic HTIB systems at five times the price.
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      01-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #31
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Bose system will blow basic computer gaming system out of the water. But that's where it ends.

Records do have a noticeable difference over CDs, if you can't tell the difference, you buddy didn't choose the music to demonstrate his point well.

I only am reading about people talking about the acoustimass cube speakers and such, why aren't anybody talking about the actual bose speakers that are the proper sizing, and proper tweeters and etc? The stuff designed to go with a normal amplifier? It's decent, still overpriced, but i'd pay that before I'd buy one of their lifestyle systems.

Onkyo does make great amplifiers, i would recommend looking at those.

Long story short, if you want a small space saving setup, the bose will work, but there's much better stuff out there, even some other space saving stuff as well.
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      01-24-2012, 12:28 PM   #32
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I agree with everyone suggesting to ignore Bose, and build your own system as you'll get more bang for your buck. I built my own 5.1 system about 10 years ago using an Onkyo receiver and various Cambridge Soundworks speakers for around $1000 at the time. This system still works great for my today.

I will admit I do own one Bose product though; a pair of their ear-bud headphones. They were the most comfortable ear-buds that I had tried, plus they were on sale from their ridiculously high price.
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      01-24-2012, 12:30 PM   #33
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I agree with everyone suggesting to ignore Bose, and build your own system as you'll get more bang for your buck. I built my own 5.1 system about 10 years ago using an Onkyo receiver and various Cambridge Soundworks speakers for around $1000 at the time. This system still works great for my today.

I will admit I do own one Bose product though; a pair of their ear-bud headphones. They were the most comfortable ear-buds that I had tried, plus they were on sale from their ridiculously high price.
^^^ this is the proper way to buy bose.
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      01-24-2012, 02:56 PM   #34
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What home theater system would you guys recommend for gaming and doesn't cost more than 1k?

As of right now I am thinking about the Bose CineMate® Series II. What you guys think?

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/...nemate_series2
I have the bose cinemate series 2 for the bedroom and am blown away by the sound for the price! If that's still a bit too steep you can get similar sound from a zvox bar (the creator use to develope for bose).. however, look for their open box deals on ebay... sold direct from them. like new cond! the only complaint id have with the zvox is that bass doesnt hit low enough, so some games may not sound like they could with the bose cinemate.. best sound bar ive ever heard though and a huge savings on cost
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      01-24-2012, 06:21 PM   #35
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I have the bose cinemate series 2 for the bedroom and am blown away by the sound for the price! If that's still a bit too steep you can get similar sound from a zvox bar (the creator use to develope for bose).. however, look for their open box deals on ebay... sold direct from them. like new cond! the only complaint id have with the zvox is that bass doesnt hit low enough, so some games may not sound like they could with the bose cinemate.. best sound bar ive ever heard though and a huge savings on cost
Just curious, you said you were blown away by the sound for the price and it is the best sound bar you have ever heard, what exactly are you comparing it to?

"For the price", what else did you compare with in this price range? Based on the link, it looks like this system is priced at $600 and $800. Did you actually compare it to a real 2.1 system with a receiver, two bookshelf speakers and a sub? I bet I could put together several systems in that price range that will easily outperform this system.

If your comparison is strictly with other soundbars, then I could certainly understand how this system would blow you away. Soundbars are great for those who do not want all the extra speakers and wires and need simple hookup but performance-wise, they are just better than TV speakers but any basic HTIB system should easily outperform a soundbar. Plus, soundbars do not give you real surround or even true stereo sound, they just simulate surround sound with effects processing.
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      01-24-2012, 09:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by daixloxbmw View Post
Just curious, you said you were blown away by the sound for the price and it is the best sound bar you have ever heard, what exactly are you comparing it to?

"For the price", what else did you compare with in this price range? Based on the link, it looks like this system is priced at $600 and $800. Did you actually compare it to a real 2.1 system with a receiver, two bookshelf speakers and a sub? I bet I could put together several systems in that price range that will easily outperform this system.

If your comparison is strictly with other soundbars, then I could certainly understand how this system would blow you away. Soundbars are great for those who do not want all the extra speakers and wires and need simple hookup but performance-wise, they are just better than TV speakers but any basic HTIB system should easily outperform a soundbar. Plus, soundbars do not give you real surround or even true stereo sound, they just simulate surround sound with effects processing.
I can tell you that for a bedroom it doesnt take much to maxmize on sound. I was impressed with the bose cinemate at the store, and more impressed in my small room. So it all depends on where the OP plans to use his speakers.. I have the zvox sound bar for the living room and its not bad at all. its 499.99 on the website but it doesnt take much research to figure out they also sell on ebay for less. I spent 300 with shipping on what seemed like a brand new sound bar.. no complaints here. This definitely doesnt compare to a true 5.1+ setup but it does sound damn good for 300 dollars

the best comparison to the bose cinemate that i have is my buddy's setup.. he dropped around 1,500 on a setup not including installation. below are just some of his items.. i spent 600 shipped and his does NOT sound 1,000 dollars better, and having no giant bulky receiver is nice.. so i guess its all relative.
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      01-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #37
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I just got the VSX-1121 to replace my Onkyo. This is a great receiver for $499.
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      01-28-2012, 11:26 AM   #38
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I just got the VSX-1121 to replace my Onkyo. This is a great receiver for $499.
I was lucky I got it right after Thanksgiving for $399 from Amazon. This is the first non-Elite Pioneer I have had. I believe it is basically the the same as the VSX-52.

Agreed, very good receiver for the price.
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      01-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #39
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I was lucky I got it right after Thanksgiving for $399 from Amazon. This is the first non-Elite Pioneer I have had. I believe it is basically the the same as the VSX-52.

Agreed, very good receiver for the price.
You are correct.

And yes, I heard about the sale, but missed it. $399 is just crazy because $499 is still a great price. Totally worth it either way.
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      01-28-2012, 12:23 PM   #40
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My friend who owns a high end shop recommended these for me as a small form factor speaker:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/series.php?SID=94

First thing I asked him was "Cambridge?" But he replied that it isn't the company I was thinking of (Cambridge Soundworks), and that they were exceptional and relatively inexpensive (~$150 per for the small cube).

He's getting them into his store in about 2 weeks.
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      01-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #41
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My friend who owns a high end shop recommended these for me as a small form factor speaker:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/series.php?SID=94

First thing I asked him was "Cambridge?" But he replied that it isn't the company I was thinking of (Cambridge Soundworks), and that they were exceptional and relatively inexpensive (~$150 per for the small cube).

He's getting them into his store in about 2 weeks.
These look interesting. I've been looking for satellite 5.1 system options for a future set-up. These Cambridges are comparable in price to these.

http://www.orbaudio.com/

Has anyone experienced these orb audio speakers before?
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      01-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #42
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Ya, they look interesting indeed. I have some Mirage speakers now, but one of the woofers is bad (bought from my friend 9 or so years ago).

Considering he's a audiophile and my friend, I'm confident he's not "selling" me on these just to sell me something. For him to get this excited about something tells me it's pretty damn good without even hearing it.
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      01-30-2012, 05:38 PM   #43
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