BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
Stick to Clutch
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-28-2012, 03:53 AM   #133
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Are people missing the fact that these cars have an M engine in them? Not just a sportier version of an existing engine like the 1M, but an M engine! I remember when all the haters were complaining about the 1M not having a true Sxx engine. Then you all complained about the M5 being forced induction. Now this. The car isn't trying to be a diesel M5. Did you all complain when BMW first used electric seats or cd players? It's called moving with the fucking times!

Who gives a shit if it's a diesel or not. The fact is, it's more powerful and a damn sight torquier than an E46 M3. Does that not mean that it's a performance car?!

BMW aren't diluting the M brand, they're using it!

People can put M badges on their 320 saloons all day long and you know what, I don't care. I and the rest of the world will know that it's just a badge. Do you really think that people can't tell the difference between an M3 and a 520d with an M badge?!

I for one would jump at the M550d Touring. 381hp and better economy than my 330?! Yes please! I won't however think I'm driving an M5. Just a performance M diesel.

Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 07:42 AM   #134
Norsk
Major
 
Norsk's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,086
iTrader: (0)

Frobius; Do like your point about sh*t fuel
Norsk is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 09:18 AM   #135
Vladiik
Private
 
Drives: BMW F10 m5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Moscow

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

To all americans....


__________________
Sold Porsche Cayenne Turbo 2004
Sold E60 535d 2009
BMW X6 50i
NOW F10 M5
Vladiik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 12:34 PM   #136
airwave808
First Lieutenant
 
airwave808's Avatar
 
Drives: MCB E92
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 310
iTrader: (1)

I personally don't care for the M badge or not. I would love to special order an X5 M50d if I could. The engine with 546 lbs/ft of torque sounds amazing. I just wished that they called it 50d only.
airwave808 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 01:50 PM   #137
Rustler
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '10 E90 335i Space Grey
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cambridge, MA

Posts: 295
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.
I think you are misreading the issue many posters have expressed with regard to this new model line (myself excluded), which is that by putting the M badge on this "tweener" line of cars M is diluting its brand, and perhaps also that by making any car that allocates some its purpose to economy, M is lessened as a brand. This is different than the conversation you have raised, which is whether diesels are a good alternative/additional option to gasoline engines (regardless of badging).

To answer the point you have raised, I think many (perhaps most?, myself included in any event) car enthusiasts in the US would love to see more diesel options, so your post on an enthusiast forum is preaching to the choir, and really a gross generalization which by and large doesn't apply to your audience.

If you want to rant about a lack of diesels in the US, I think you should focus your attention away from US auto enthusiasts, and towards: 1) big agribusiness which wanted to preserve demand for gasoline with corn based ethanol additives and other corn based "bio" fuels; 2) the breadbasket politicians they own; and 3) and the resulting effect on the automotive market place in America, which promoted gasoline cars through marketing, subsidies, and import regulation/homologation rules. In other words, the average consumer here wants gasoline, but they haven't been given all the facts and no alternative anyway, whereas most enthusiasts wish we had more diesels.

Thoughts?
Rustler is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #138
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
You know what, I agree with you. Apologies for the bit of a rant but reading through the posts it all seemed a bit 'on the diesel hate wagon'.

As for brand dilution, surely M division has been doing that since putting the badge on parts destined for what are essentially sport models? Someone even suggested that the new M performance cars be called M-Line a la Audi S-Line. Think M Sport models have that covered! The difference being that the M performance models are indeed M tuned and performance cars, unlike their sport branded cousins. I don't think BMW are trying to dilute the M brand, but simply adding a more accessible and daily driver friendly option, much like Audi's S4 compared to RS4 etc.

That said, if the M550d is going to be priced as rumoured, the price gap between the M performance models and the 'full fat' M cars is a bit narrow in my humble opinion. €80,000 works out about £70,000, which is only a whisker off M5 money! To that end, I would have thought the M550d to have made more sense priced not far beyond 550i money rather than so close if not the same as M5 money.
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #139
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Erm, that's meant to be 80,000 euros and 70,000 pounds. Phone doesn't s
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #140
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
eem to want to post symbols.

Or keep my posts together it seems!
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 02:25 PM   #141
bavarian19
General
 
bavarian19's Avatar
 
Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

Posts: 18,809
iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadealus View Post
M550D
0-60 : 4.7
37: US MPG

why wouldn't they bring this to the USA?!

That is a real shame...
bavarian19 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #142
Rustler
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '10 E90 335i Space Grey
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cambridge, MA

Posts: 295
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
As for brand dilution, surely M division has been doing that since putting the badge on parts destined for what are essentially sport models? Someone even suggested that the new M performance cars be called M-Line a la Audi S-Line. Think M Sport models have that covered! The difference being that the M performance models are indeed M tuned and performance cars, unlike their sport branded cousins. I don't think BMW are trying to dilute the M brand, but simply adding a more accessible and daily driver friendly option, much like Audi's S4 compared to RS4 etc.
Agreed, and as far as I see it, as long as M still makes the full caffeinated version (and the enthusiast can still pick it out of the the line up) what difference does it make if there's a half/caff version to reach a broader audience?

We certainly do get the shaft on many nice options you all have over there, but the real craw in my side is that I can't get a 335i in a wagon, although I certainly also wish we had more diesel alternatives (I would particularly appreciate a diesel in my VW Eurovan, even as good as the 2.8 VR6 gasoline is).

I find this shocking: As far as I can tell there is no diesel, AWD drive wagon (not SUV) available for sale in the US.
Rustler is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #143
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I suppose it's catch 22. With diesel being more difficult to get hold of (I saw a load of places outside of cities that didn't stock it) then the market for diesel cars isn't there. With no market, what's the incentive for independent fuel stations to stock it!

Fair point on the lack of choice that we get. Mind you, over here awd is only available on X models (SUVs). And while an M3 can be gotten for 60k us dollars, the same car costs the equivalent of 90k US in the UK!
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2012, 04:44 PM   #144
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Bah, just read that BMW UK have said that we won't get the M550d either, only the X5/6 M50d! :'(
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 05:39 AM   #145
Hedoniste
Lieutenant
 
Hedoniste's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 & X1
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Blablaille

Posts: 508
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
Sorry for people who can't afford M5 or X5M/X6M.... Really...
__________________
2015 BMW M3 DCT (AW/FSO)
Previous M's:
2011 BMW M3 Coupe 6MT ZCP
2007 BMW M Coupe
Hedoniste is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 10:56 AM   #146
Quasimodem
Colonel
 
Quasimodem's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California

Posts: 2,183
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335d US  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
Bah, just read that BMW UK have said that we won't get the M550d either, only the X5/6 M50d! :'(
Cant you buy it in Europe and register it in UK as a used car?
__________________
Speakers: CDT Audio HD-42 comps--front doors (RAAMmat deadened), CDT ES-06 6.5" woofers--kickpanl Pods, Hertz EBX202R dual 8" ported trunk sub. Amps: Phoenix Gold RSd 500.4 (comps & pods). PG RSd 600.1 (sub). Power & Ground: 4AWG Streetwires w/RockFosgt RFDB1 distro blocks. Input: HU lineout--Kicker KISL RCA adapters--RockFosgt RFIT-6 cables--Audiocontrol Matrix--Monster cables--RSd 500.4--lineout Monstr Cabl to RSd 600.1.
Quasimodem is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #147
P1et
Colonel
 
P1et's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 X5 | '11 135i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 2,924
iTrader: (1)

Absolutely love the 5-series touring. But the badges. CRAP. I've been making fun of those people for YEARS! And now BMW is doing it...
P1et is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 12:52 PM   #148
P1et
Colonel
 
P1et's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 X5 | '11 135i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 2,924
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
Are people missing the fact that these cars have an M engine in them? Not just a sportier version of an existing engine like the 1M, but an M engine! I remember when all the haters were complaining about the 1M not having a true Sxx engine. Then you all complained about the M5 being forced induction. Now this. The car isn't trying to be a diesel M5. Did you all complain when BMW first used electric seats or cd players? It's called moving with the fucking times!

Who gives a shit if it's a diesel or not. The fact is, it's more powerful and a damn sight torquier than an E46 M3. Does that not mean that it's a performance car?!

BMW aren't diluting the M brand, they're using it!

People can put M badges on their 320 saloons all day long and you know what, I don't care. I and the rest of the world will know that it's just a badge. Do you really think that people can't tell the difference between an M3 and a 520d with an M badge?!

I for one would jump at the M550d Touring. 381hp and better economy than my 330?! Yes please! I won't however think I'm driving an M5. Just a performance M diesel.

Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.
As a Belgian living in Texas, I can assure you that MANY MANY people would jump for joy if more diesels were available. There is absolutely not hate for them here. The selection, however, is quite limited. If you wish to stick with BMW, you can get a 3-series saloon with a diesel or an X5 with a diesel. Mercedes has the ML, GL and E class. Audi has the Q7 and the A3.

So the demand is there. There is just a very limited choice.

I drive a diesel myself, albeit a 5.9L diesel...
P1et is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 04:42 PM   #149
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimodem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
Bah, just read that BMW UK have said that we won't get the M550d either, only the X5/6 M50d! :'(
Cant you buy it in Europe and register it in UK as a used car?
Could do but the resale value of imports is crap and insurance is higher for some reason. Not to mention warranty issues and the fact the steering wheel would be on the wrong side!!
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 09:27 PM   #150
Thud
Throbbing Member
 
Drives:
Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 1,431
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
I suppose it's catch 22. With diesel being more difficult to get hold of (I saw a load of places outside of cities that didn't stock it) then the market for diesel cars isn't there. With no market, what's the incentive for independent fuel stations to stock it!

Fair point on the lack of choice that we get. Mind you, over here awd is only available on X models (SUVs). And while an M3 can be gotten for 60k us dollars, the same car costs the equivalent of 90k US in the UK!
I think the tide will continue turning.... with the Diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee coming to the US in 2013, and the Porsche Cayenne Diesel also coming to the US (that's a no brainer since it's the same motor as the Q7 and Touareg), we'll continue to see more and more diesels.

Mercedes seems to be the only company that seems committed to selling diesel sedans in the US though... but considering those Bluetecs only put out 210hp, BMW has a clear advantage if they wanted to dominate that market with a diesel 5-series here.

Now Audi's got a 300+hp 3.0TDI in the works, which will probably replace the current V6 TDI in their lineup eventually... the diesel revolution is just beginning!
__________________
2011 335d / Deep Sea Blue / Saddle brown / sport / premium

Previous cars:
2008 BMW 135i / 6MT
2002 Z06 Corvette

Last edited by Thud; 01-29-2012 at 09:41 PM.
Thud is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2012, 11:36 PM   #151
P1et
Colonel
 
P1et's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 X5 | '11 135i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 2,924
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
Could do but the resale value of imports is crap and insurance is higher for some reason. Not to mention warranty issues and the fact the steering wheel would be on the wrong side!!
My mother bought her 335i in London (Park Lane) and ordered it with the steering wheel on the left hand side. Not a problem for BMW apparently...
P1et is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2012, 07:44 AM   #152
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
My mother bought her 335i in London (Park Lane) and ordered it with the steering wheel on the left hand side. Not a problem for BMW apparently...
Yeah, but I'd imagine that's because they actually do make a LHD 335i. Seems that one of the reasons. how much truth there is in it I don't know, that they are not importing to the UK is that the XDrive system has been designed around the LHD platform and engineering it into an RHD vehicle would be costly.

Doesn't explain how we get RHD X5s etc though.

To be honest I think the primary driver is that the cost of cars in the UK is so inflated that there would end up being very little price difference between an M550d and a full fat M5, thus on one hand who would buy the M550d when you could have the real thing for 10k more. Then again, if you could have 90% of the performance, double the economy for 10k less, why would anyone buy an M5? Rhetorical question unless some marketeers out there have an answer?
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2012, 11:56 AM   #153
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport / E87 118d SE
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 954
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Ah, crisis averted!

My insider guy has just informed me that the M550d WILL indeed come to the UK, albeit in RWD only guise, so no funky, heavy XDrive for us!

That said, will be interesting to see how it puts down 545ft lb of torque through two wheels! Might buy some shares in Pirelli...
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2012, 05:11 PM   #154
Vintage
Colonel
 
Vintage's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Z4 35i and 2014 535d x
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Austin, Texas

Posts: 2,202
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
As a Belgian living in Texas, I can assure you that MANY MANY people would jump for joy if more diesels were available. There is absolutely not hate for them here. The selection, however, is quite limited. If you wish to stick with BMW, you can get a 3-series saloon with a diesel or an X5 with a diesel. Mercedes has the ML, GL and E class. Audi has the Q7 and the A3.

So the demand is there. There is just a very limited choice.

I drive a diesel myself, albeit a 5.9L diesel...
Amen - more BMW diesel products please. It frustrates me to no end that we do not get a wide selection stateside!
Vintage is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST