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      01-28-2012, 02:05 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Let me preface this post by saying that I have not read through all the 33 pages of this thread so I apologize if what I say has already been brought up.

I have been a car enthusiast my whole life and have been into modding cars for many, many years. I am now 46, and this started at age 17, so what I say comes from years of personal experience and knowledge.

So here are my points:

1. When you add forced induction to an otherwise stock NA street motor, you are playing with fire. No if, ands, or buts. Your risk of engine failure will go up. If there are inherent weaknesses in the motor to begin with, adding FI will make it much more likely that those weaknesses become exposed.

2. Your margin for error while driving becomes much less. While a mis-shift, an over rev, etc, etc, may be tolerated by a stock motor, it may not be by the boosted motor.

3. Over the years I have seen blown motor after blown motor on all sorts of cars with all sorts of kits. Sure it can happen on a stock motor too, but the risk is just that much higher when boost is applied to a previously NA stock street motor.

4. If you want to go forced induction, buy a forced induction car from the factory. I guarantee you that the tolerances for the internals are such to allow a huge increase in tuned power without much worry. A stock B5 Audi S4 which came from the factory with a 250hp twin turbo V6 could be easily tuned for over 450hp and almost 500lb-ft of torque on the stock block with bullet proof reliability.

5. If you want to put FI onto a NA street car, you need to build the motor...crank, pistons, rods, rings, and run a CR of certainly less than 10.5.

Do it right or don't do it at all. While I feel for the OP, let's be real. Is anyone really surprised that this happened? I hope not.
AMEN.
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      01-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC5 View Post
AMEN.
Seconded..been saying that all along FI on an NA setup is just plain foolish
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      01-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eamon View Post
You seem pretty confident in what you're saying, this is pretty OT but are N54s good for tuning? As in do they have bullet-proof reliability i.e. keeping the car running for a long time?
Just looking for some input, threads like these scare me away ahah
Yea but your are missing that the n54 is built as an FI car..tweaking boost settings is a far cry for boosting an NA platform
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      01-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Yea but your are missing that the n54 is built as an FI car..tweaking boost settings is a far cry for boosting an NA platform
No, I get the point, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything of the sort if that's what you mean. I was just comparing the N54 to the B5 S4 and asking how tweaking the boost on our 335s would fare against the S4 in terms of reliability.
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      01-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #687
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So is there any news on the Freeze Frame Shadow Data from the OP's car??
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      01-28-2012, 02:25 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eamon View Post
No, I get the point, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything of the sort if that's what you mean. I was just comparing the N54 to the B5 S4 and asking how tweaking the boost on our 335s would fare against the S4 in terms of reliability.
I dont think the n54 has engine problems, they are reliable. However they do have other problems. Hpfp, limp mode due to overheating, and turbo problems. But the engine itself is reliable.
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      01-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #689
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I am afraid the cooling system, turobs, fuel pumps, plugs, injectors and limp mode issues are all part of the "engine"

In this m3 case I guess if say "other than the supercharger the engine was bullet proof!"
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      01-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #690
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This thread at the very least is going to help people in the future decide whether they are "ready" to take the risk that SC kits / FI for the S65 engine.
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      01-28-2012, 05:24 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by jdemetry View Post
judge judy FTW!
lol
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      01-28-2012, 06:01 PM   #692
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The OP put a supercharger on an M3, you deserve what happened to you. Then he tried to blackmail the vendor. A year later he posts this on the forums. Does anyone else not find the OP to have zero credibility on those two points alone. Why did he wait so long? I personally believe he shifted into 3rd instead of 5th and blew the engine. You should stick to remote control cars.
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      01-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #693
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See post #38 in this thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474525

So was it 198 mph on a dyno OR 190 mph on the street? Odd post if it was on a dyno...
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      01-28-2012, 11:12 PM   #694
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34 pages trying to sabotage AA....

A company that makes good products and a jackass who blew his engine and wants to blackmail them.... Try and find anything else negative about AA on this forum.... I bet you'll have a hard time. drama drama drama.... no wonder AA doesn't post here anymore... In fact they pay good money to sponsor this forum so the Admin's in good faith should delete this thread all together
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      01-28-2012, 11:40 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgbimmer View Post
The OP put a supercharger on an M3, you deserve what happened to you. Then he tried to blackmail the vendor. A year later he posts this on the forums. Does anyone else not find the OP to have zero credibility on those two points alone. Why did he wait so long? I personally believe he shifted into 3rd instead of 5th and blew the engine. You should stick to remote control cars.
seriously...who the hell thats knows how to drive which he obviously does since hes driven this car for 25k miles mis shifts from 4th to 3rd when trying to go to 5th? and if he was downshifting to 5th again...who does that? for me its either 6th to 3rd or 4th.

everyone has their own biased stories including both AA and the OP...but to just take sides and blatantly point fingers is just absurd. come on guys...its just hard to explain everything in a forum especially when everything is getting heated up like this.

i can see both sides and why they would not wanna take blame for this but to just say hey youre wrong is just wrong lol.

also to everyone that says putting a SC on a NA car is dumb and the buyer should take all responsibilities is just plain stupid. the reason why america is such a great country is because of all the laws and rules so we dont continuously get scammed.

think about it...if you bought this SC kit and they said its safe as long as keep it under the rev limit because they have done countless hours of R&D, then i would think it would be safe for at least 20k miles without failure of any kind (especially one that you buy for 16k dollars). but you have done everything right but your engine blows in 1200 miles like the OP's...now you are saying that you should be held liable for all damages?

if this was the case you would see scams after scams and it would never end. every company out there would be trying to just take your money and leave...but because there are obligations for a company we have such good products.

but in no way am i saying the OP is right...because maybe he did over rev which in turn would mean that he is completely at fault here and would not expect AA to even reimburse for the SC kit. but the fact that they did reimburse him for the kit (never found out what percentage of the kit was reimbursed) seems like they are admitting to fault somewhat.

then again AA could have reimbursed for customer servive...anything is possible and we do not have all the information here and probably never will get the truth.

for now since there is no way of knowing the complete truth lets keep the hate to a minimum. never know whos right and all im saying is stop taking sides please...both are right and wrong lol.

and to be clear it seems that the OP is not trying to get his engine paid for according to his first post...just letting us know how much of scumbags they are at AA but again just reiterating OP's statement lol.

ive personally never dealt with AA but since they have been in business for 30+ years they must be doing something right over there (you would think), so this would not discourage me from buying other products of AA...but probably not their SC kit.
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      01-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Seconded..been saying that all along FI on an NA setup is just plain foolish
I keep reading these post claiming FI on a NA car is just a mess up waiting to happen, that no one should be surprised this has happened, yadda, yadda, yadda.....so for all you guys/gals saying this.....I have one question: How many ESS-s/c'ed S65s have gone boom?
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      01-28-2012, 11:53 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
I keep reading these post claiming FI on a NA car is just a mess up waiting to happen, that no one should be surprised this has happened, yadda, yadda, yadda.....so for all you guys/gals saying this.....I have one question: How many ESS-s/c'ed S65s have gone boom?
None. Thats why I went with ESS.

And according to my research they have sold more kits than anyone else. Thats why I'll be racing with their kit this year
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      01-29-2012, 12:04 AM   #698
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Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
None.
My point exactly. If I ever decide to s/c, I've known for awhile who I'd go with, and threads like this just re-affirm that.
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      01-29-2012, 12:18 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPoweredAuto View Post
I then began questioning what kind of help I could receive to get this resolved and me not be completely on the hook for the repair bill. They not only suggested, but helped aid in getting it converted back to stock and take it to the dealer under warranty. I was skeptical about this to say the least, but since I felt they were good guys, and they thought it was a 'manufacturer defect' that I would give it a try, which later I felt pretty bad about. They prompted me to remove my ECU and send it to them so they could flash everything back to original settings and that nothing would be detected that there had been modifications to the ECU. I had to purchase about $1,000 worth of parts that had been cut and altered by Active during the install to mask the previous modifications. Once I got the ECU back from Active, I sent it over to the dealership on a flat bed.
This is why BMW doesn't trust anyone......because this is what we call FRAUD. Now, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but you pay to play. So once you mod a car and that mod is what damages your engine, and then the person who did the mod suggests that you try to "defraud" BMW out of their money because of something that had nothing to do with BMW......well that is just messed up.

This is why dealerships don't treat us fairly......this is why BMW is on these forums.......because people are dishonest and break the law.

Its why no tuner, will EVER TOUCH MY CAR......and if I ever did one day, and something goes wrong, I won't try to fool the dealership into paying for my gamble.

Cheers,
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Last edited by e46e92love; 01-31-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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      01-29-2012, 12:21 AM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
This is why MW doesn't trust anyone......because this is what we call FRAUD. Now, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but you pay to play. So once you do something that you know is what blew up your engine, and then the person who did suggests that you dry to "defraud" BMW out of their money because of something that had nothing to do with them......

This is why dealerships don't treat us fairly......this is why BMW is on these forums.......because people are dishonest and break the law.

Its why no one tuner, other than DINAN, will EVER TOUCH MY CAR......and if something goes wrong, I won't try to fool the dealership into paying for my gamble.

Cheers,
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oh please.. I see where you're coming from.. but get over your car dude. obviously ESS is pretty reputable. And so is AA..
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      01-29-2012, 02:01 AM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
I keep reading these post claiming FI on a NA car is just a mess up waiting to happen, that no one should be surprised this has happened, yadda, yadda, yadda.....so for all you guys/gals saying this.....I have one question: How many ESS-s/c'ed S65s have gone boom?
I am not going to stoop down to how many varied tuner's SC applications have failed ..the point of the post expressed by VVG is vaild on its face either you accept it or you dont and if you dont then feel free to express how any of his points dont have a basis in fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
So here are my points:

1. When you add forced induction to an otherwise stock NA street motor, you are playing with fire. No if, ands, or buts. Your risk of engine failure will go up. If there are inherent weaknesses in the motor to begin with, adding FI will make it much more likely that those weaknesses become exposed.

2. Your margin for error while driving becomes much less. While a mis-shift, an over rev, etc, etc, may be tolerated by a stock motor, it may not be by the boosted motor.

3. Over the years I have seen blown motor after blown motor on all sorts of cars with all sorts of kits. Sure it can happen on a stock motor too, but the risk is just that much higher when boost is applied to a previously NA stock street motor.

4. If you want to go forced induction, buy a forced induction car from the factory. I guarantee you that the tolerances for the internals are such to allow a huge increase in tuned power without much worry. A stock B5 Audi S4 which came from the factory with a 250hp twin turbo V6 could be easily tuned for over 450hp and almost 500lb-ft of torque on the stock block with bullet proof reliability.

5. If you want to put FI onto a NA street car, you need to build the motor...crank, pistons, rods, rings, and run a CR of certainly less than 10.5.

Do it right or don't do it at all. While I feel for the OP, let's be real. Is anyone really surprised that this happened? I hope not.

Last edited by tibra1; 01-29-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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      01-29-2012, 02:03 AM   #702
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this thread is like the energizer bunny, it keeps going and going....
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      01-29-2012, 02:07 AM   #703
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i just got a big fat knot in my stomach seeing this carnage...
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      01-29-2012, 09:49 AM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
4. If you want to go forced induction, buy a forced induction car from the factory. I guarantee you that the tolerances for the internals are such to allow a huge increase in tuned power without much worry. A stock B5 Audi S4 which came from the factory with a 250hp twin turbo V6 could be easily tuned for over 450hp and almost 500lb-ft of torque on the stock block with bullet proof reliability.]
LMAO really? B5 s4 and bullet proof reliability, awesome.
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