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      01-19-2012, 03:01 AM   #1
Soorena
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Oiling issue?

Gintani's video on the Drew's blown motor made me a little worried about the oiling system on S65.
I think it's the first time someone mentions this problem, have you ever heard of it on stock engines?
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      01-19-2012, 03:33 AM   #2
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It has a very sophisticated oil pump system. Edit: see more comprehensive post below

I don't think this is an issue.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 01-19-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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      01-19-2012, 09:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Gintani's video on the Drew's blown motor made me a little worried about the oiling system on S65.
I think it's the first time someone mentions this problem, have you ever heard of it on stock engines?
Yes, as mentioned in other threads, it has happened on stock motors.
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      01-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Gintani's video on the Drew's blown motor made me a little worried about the oiling system on S65.
I think it's the first time someone mentions this problem, have you ever heard of it on stock engines?
Please (completely) put this out of your mind. It is absolutely NOT an issue with our cars.

Seriously, BMW didn't put a 9.5 quart oil capacity in the car just to let it sit in the pan.

He had a SC, meth injection and everything else under the sun and Gintani wants to blame the rod going through the block as a BMW oiling problem? Please

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Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
It has a very sophisticated oil pump system. Semi-dry sump if I remember correctly.

I don't think this is an issue.
Wet sump last I checked. Or is a wet sump with a scavenge pump considered a semi-dry?


Lets add it all up:

OMG! My Rod Bearings in Cylinder # 5 are having an Oiling Problem!!!!!!!!
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      01-19-2012, 01:26 PM   #5
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As BMRLVR mentioned in Gintani's thread, if you don't have any issues within the first 20K miles, you won't have any.
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      01-19-2012, 02:13 PM   #6
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I've been adding Vmax to my oil from day one. I know some will say its snake oil but I like the added piece of mind especially after seeing all these threads.
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      01-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
I've been adding Vmax to my oil from day one. I know some will say its snake oil but I like the added piece of mind especially after seeing all these threads.
I used to work at an electron microscopy lab at NASA MSFC and we used to have entrepreneurs bring in similar additives claiming that they soaked into the metal and filled imperfections and such, restoring compression, etc. In a lot of cases, these additives made the surface worse, and noticeable microscopic etching was present afterwards. It is snake oil and is definitely not peace of mind because it may be doing harm rather than good.

BMW didn't design the motor for that crap. Who's engineering skills are you going trust?
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      01-19-2012, 02:40 PM   #8
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Well,i think BMW engineers that designed these motor are much better and more experienced to put out a motor that's having problems since some are saying that these motors are put together too tight.
and regarding the bearings in the 08 motors,they were never replaced in the following years or upgraded.All bearings are the same,from 2008-2012.I have one of the first production cars and when i broke down the motor,there were some wearing on the bearings but it was very acceptable coming out of a motor with 49k miles and being blown for 35k miles.
i will post some pics in my build thread soon !
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      01-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I used to work at an electron microscopy lab at NASA MSFC and we used to have entrepreneurs bring in similar additives claiming that they soaked into the metal and filled imperfections and such, restoring compression, etc. In a lot of cases, these additives made the surface worse, and noticeable microscopic etching was present afterwards. It is snake oil and is definitely not peace of mind because it may be doing harm rather than good.

BMW didn't design the motor for that crap. Who's engineering skills are you going trust?
Thanks for the info. I did a quick search and found this http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.shtm

No more Z Max for me.
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      01-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
Please (completely) put this out of your mind. It is absolutely NOT an issue with our cars.
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
I've been adding Vmax to my oil from day one. I know some will say its snake oil but I like the added piece of mind especially after seeing all these threads.
Wow... I'm glad you've since sorted that out. Not actually snake oil though, mineral oil.

S65 is wet sump.
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      01-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #11
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Just to add some information from BMW Documentation to the thread:

Two oil pumps are installed in the S65 engine; the oil return pump, which is driven via a gearwheel by a crankshaft, and the volume flow-controlled main oil pump, driven via chain drive by the oil return pump.

In the S85, the VANOS high pressure pump is installed instead of the S65 oil return pump, and the S85 oil return pump is contained in a housing together with the main oil pump (tandem pump).

Since there is no space to install a tandem pump in the S65, the oil return pump has been moved from the main oil pump housing and installed instead of the VANOS high-pressure pump. This allows the pump drive principle (crankshaft => gearwheel => pump => chain => pump) to be maintained. As in the S85, the volume flow-controlled main oil pump is a hinged-valve oil pump with a feed capacity adjusted to suit the VANOS low-pressure system.

The duocentric design of the oil return pump ensures that oil is always available at the inlet pipe of the main oil pump in the rear area of the oil pan, i.e. even when braking sharply from high speeds.

The electrical oil return pumps installed in the S85 for scavenging the cylinder heads are no longer required, which results in a further weight saving. This is made possible by the lower number of cylinders, modification of the oil return routes, and the large capacity of the oil pan.

The oil pan has a capacity of 8.3 litres (S85 9.3 litres). The oil supply is also guaranteed at extreme longitudinal and lateral accelerations of up to 1.4 times the normal gravitational acceleration.

Given this design, I think that the oiling system is definitely up to the task.
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      01-19-2012, 05:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
As BMRLVR mentioned in Gintani's thread, if you don't have any issues within the first 20K miles, you won't have any.
Well, I wouldn't go so far, but the OP shouldn't stress in any case.
Yes, if you have marginal clearance on any of the bearings and a problem don't manifest itself before 20k miles or before, there is a good chance you won't have an issue with that bearing.

In 1997 my brother and I installed 2.9 liter OEM euro pistons in a VR6 engine from his Corrado. With the Euro pistons you reuse the stock rods and replace the wrist pins and bearings. When we took the engine apart all the bearings looked good for the mileage 70,000 Miles.

Once the engine came back from the machine shop we began to reassemble it. We checked all the rods and mains with plastigauge and all were nice and even and in spec.

After only 1,000 Miles of use the car started making a loud clicking noise that was quickly getting louder. We got the car home pulled the oil pan and soon saw the rod bearing on #1 cylinder had started to lap the bearing (all the other bearings were good). Luckily enough, the crank journal was only lightly marred so we replaced that bearing, again checking for clearance and it seemed ok. In even less mileage than the first time, the bearing failed again.

The cause of this was that the rod was slightly stretched. Since all the bearing that we took out of the engine looked good we didn't spend much time measuring the rods since all of the OEM bearings looked good. We ended up changing all six of the rods and the engine worked beautiful and is still running to this day (in the possession of a new owner who is a friend of my brothers)!

The point I am trying to make is that in many cases, bearings will conform to a shape and then will last just fine. I am quite sure by looking at the bearings that we took out of that engine, it would have went for another 100000 miles easy. If it weren't for us putting new bearings in the bottom end we never would have known the rod had a stretch issue at all.
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      01-20-2012, 07:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Yes, if you have marginal clearance on any of the bearings and a problem don't manifest itself before 20k miles or before, there is a good chance you won't have an issue with that bearing.

In 1997 my brother and I installed 2.9 liter OEM euro pistons in a VR6 engine from his Corrado. With the Euro pistons you reuse the stock rods and replace the wrist pins and bearings. When we took the engine apart all the bearings looked good for the mileage 70,000 Miles.

Once the engine came back from the machine shop we began to reassemble it. We checked all the rods and mains with plastigauge and all were nice and even and in spec.

After only 1,000 Miles of use the car started making a loud clicking noise that was quickly getting louder. We got the car home pulled the oil pan and soon saw the rod bearing on #1 cylinder had started to lap the bearing (all the other bearings were good). Luckily enough, the crank journal was only lightly marred so we replaced that bearing, again checking for clearance and it seemed ok. In even less mileage than the first time, the bearing failed again.

The cause of this was that the rod was slightly stretched. Since all the bearing that we took out of the engine looked good we didn't spend much time measuring the rods since all of the OEM bearings looked good. We ended up changing all six of the rods and the engine worked beautiful and is still running to this day (in the possession of a new owner who is a friend of my brothers)!

The point I am trying to make is that in many cases, bearings will conform to a shape and then will last just fine. I am quite sure by looking at the bearings that we took out of that engine, it would have went for another 100000 miles easy. If it weren't for us putting new bearings in the bottom end we never would have known the rod had a stretch issue at all.
Agreed.

BTW, when you changed the bearings, did you re-use or change the rod bolts?
Used rod bolts can have an effect on center-to-center length, no?
Did you do anything for the marred journal? Probably nothing a little emory cloth and a string couldn't fix?
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