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      01-11-2012, 12:45 AM   #89
JulieDriving
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Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
But why go turbo when an NA engine already offers all the characteristics of a turbo engine without the turbo? There is no turbo lag to deal with and I don't care how well you make an turbo engine, turbo lag will be there. The C63 AMG gives you instant response now. Would I trade in my M3 for one? Never. It's not my type of car.Different strokes for different folks.
Isn't the C63 really thirsty though and worse than the M3 in that regard? I think that may be a key reason why BMW is going turbocharged. Better fuel economy and efficiency.

With what BMW did with the new M5, I'm almost certain the new M3 will be amazing. The outstanding question for me is reliability of the turbocharged engine.

But the current M3 still ends its time as a benchmark. It's engine is lighter and more efficient than that of the E46 M3. Do people still want the old M cars? Hell yes. These cars are special... the E9X is the pinnacle of 25 years of naturally aspirated M3 engines.

We'll enjoy the present in our class leading M3s and '12 C63s (it's a tie for me), incredible machines that not many people have the chance to enjoy, while we look forward to the future...
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      01-11-2012, 01:40 AM   #90
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At New Hampshire, it was almost two seconds quicker than my E36 M3, as one example. The only E36s that could consistently get around me were a couple of 325s.

Turner Motorsports cars.

I think you're sort of, kind of, almost correct about E46s vs E36s. In my experience, very close except for almost any straight that wasn't a mere short chute.

Our E46 saw just one track day. Although it was a bit quicker than our E36 had been, I pretty much hated it because of more understeer - plus the stupid rasp of the exhaust which didn't sound anything like a proper BMW from my point of view.
I really miss my e36 m3. I had one of the most rare ones, estoril blue on modena. I had some suspension and exhaust mods an I gotta say, it's the best car I've ever owned. Nothing handled and drove like that car.
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      01-11-2012, 09:06 AM   #91
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I really miss my e36 m3. I had one of the most rare ones, estoril blue on modena. I had some suspension and exhaust mods an I gotta say, it's the best car I've ever owned. Nothing handled and drove like that car.
Felt the same way about my '95. Definitely one of the top three most-loved cars that have ever graced our garage.

The '04? Not so much.

Objectively speaking, a better car, but just not as much fun to drive due to size and weight. And that stupid raspy exhaust.
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      01-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #92
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Felt the same way about my '95. Definitely one of the top three most-loved cars that have ever graced our garage.

The '04? Not so much.

Objectively speaking, a better car, but just not as much fun to drive due to size and weight. And that stupid raspy exhaust.
I agree. I had a e46 for a few months and got rid of it. The ride/handling sucked compared to all the other m3's and yeah, I couldn't stand the sound of the car either.
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      01-12-2012, 03:07 AM   #93
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Isn't the C63 really thirsty though and worse than the M3 in that regard? I think that may be a key reason why BMW is going turbocharged. Better fuel economy and efficiency.

With what BMW did with the new M5, I'm almost certain the new M3 will be amazing. The outstanding question for me is reliability of the turbocharged engine.

But the current M3 still ends its time as a benchmark. It's engine is lighter and more efficient than that of the E46 M3. Do people still want the old M cars? Hell yes. These cars are special... the E9X is the pinnacle of 25 years of naturally aspirated M3 engines.

We'll enjoy the present in our class leading M3s and '12 C63s (it's a tie for me), incredible machines that not many people have the chance to enjoy, while we look forward to the future...
The AMG has a 6.3L V8. It's going to be thirsty, but if you can afford cars like this, then gas money really shouldn't be a problem for you. I'm not questioning that fact that the M3 won't be amazing because I know for a fact, I'm picking one up. The next generation C63(May go back to being called the C55) AMG will stay NA but will downgrade to a 5.5L engine that can be found in the SLK55 AMG. It will be tuned differently though to provide more horsepower.

The M3 is BMW's bread and butter and I'm sure they won't mess it up. My 335i was nothing but a pain in my ass, which is why I upgraded to the M3. I vowed to never again own a BMW FI engine. I sit here though and think, The M3 is what BMW does. It's been THE car that defines them. There is no way they are going to screw the car up and I'm sure they won't.

Every car manufacturer is going the FI route to improve gas mileage. There really isn't any other choice. There are very strict emissions laws coming into effect. BMW's whole fleet is boosted currently and you can't really blame them. I don't think anyone wants to be fined thousands of collars per car because it chugs gas.

I agree though, you really can't go wrong with either the M3 or a C63 AMG. We are very fortunate to even own one of the two cars mentioned.
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      01-12-2012, 11:49 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
The AMG has a 6.3L V8. It's going to be thirsty, but if you can afford cars like this, then gas money really shouldn't be a problem for you. I'm not questioning that fact that the M3 won't be amazing because I know for a fact, I'm picking one up. The next generation C63(May go back to being called the C55) AMG will stay NA but will downgrade to a 5.5L engine that can be found in the SLK55 AMG. It will be tuned differently though to provide more horsepower.

The M3 is BMW's bread and butter and I'm sure they won't mess it up. My 335i was nothing but a pain in my ass, which is why I upgraded to the M3. I vowed to never again own a BMW FI engine. I sit here though and think, The M3 is what BMW does. It's been THE car that defines them. There is no way they are going to screw the car up and I'm sure they won't.

Every car manufacturer is going the FI route to improve gas mileage. There really isn't any other choice. There are very strict emissions laws coming into effect. BMW's whole fleet is boosted currently and you can't really blame them. I don't think anyone wants to be fined thousands of collars per car because it chugs gas.

I agree though, you really can't go wrong with either the M3 or a C63 AMG. We are very fortunate to even own one of the two cars mentioned.
The engine in the current c63 is actually 6.2 liters not 6.3 and the next c63 will have a smaller 5.5 but with FI.
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      01-12-2012, 12:54 PM   #95
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The engine in the current c63 is actually 6.2 liters not 6.3 and the next c63 will have a smaller 5.5 but with FI.
I'm pretty sure no one knows what the next gen C63 will have in it. It's all speculation at this point. I read somewhere that regardless of engine it'll still be called a C63.
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      01-12-2012, 12:58 PM   #96
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I'm pretty sure no one knows what the next gen C63 will have in it. It's all speculation at this point. Regardless of engine though it'll still be called a C63.
Most likely the same engine in the new e63 but slightly detuned.
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      01-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #97
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The engine in the current c63 is actually 6.2 liters not 6.3 and the next c63 will have a smaller 5.5 but with FI.
I know. Rumors said the 5.5L N/A from the SLK would make it's way into the next gen C63.

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I'm pretty sure no one knows what the next gen C63 will have in it. It's all speculation at this point. I read somewhere that regardless of engine it'll still be called a C63.
Bingo.
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      02-05-2012, 01:17 AM   #98
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I think what the m3 has going for it is it's handling.
Other than that... Damn the c63 is awesome. I'm actually looking at some c63 next weekend. It is not as sporty as the m3 but it has a nice motor and sound which is important to me. I don't track my m3 do I'll never experience it's true potential anyway. For a driver like myself, c63 is perfect.
The only thing is that I find the c63 to not hold its value as well as the m3.

Isn't this beautiful?:

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      02-06-2012, 12:50 PM   #99
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I think what the m3 has going for it is it's handling.
Other than that... Damn the c63 is awesome. I'm actually looking at some c63 next weekend. It is not as sporty as the m3 but it has a nice motor and sound which is important to me. I don't track my m3 do I'll never experience it's true potential anyway. For a driver like myself, c63 is perfect.
The only thing is that I find the c63 to not hold its value as well as the m3.

Isn't this beautiful?:

is this a stock C63? i think this one has wider aftermarket rear fenders. Look sick. hehe
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      02-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #100
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They should put the 4.4 litre into a new Z4M Couple, give it the 1M's steering rack, M3 suspensions, and CF roof and it will be my ultimate BMW wet dream. I have always lust after the prev Z4M Couple, but couldn't afford it then
oh that would be hot. even i would be fine with that in the z4m vert, top down and that v8. but please remove that stupid antenna on the rear. just looks awful.
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      02-07-2012, 12:59 AM   #101
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Ok, now I need to use the dreaded "fanboy" term

Having a 400 ft/lbs torque M3 would NOT make it just another C63. Who said it couldn't still be a screamer? Also, presuming that the "character" of the M3 is somehow more special than other cars screams bias. Sure, the character may be something you like but who is to say the general population agree. There are lots of "special" cars out there with different character to the M3. Special is in the eye of the beholder.

To say the sales of an M3 with more torque would drop as the car somehow would become less special is wrong IMO. 95% of the buying public absolutlely like torque and don't give a rats ass about the "special" character of the M3. My guess is it would get even better reviews (if that's possible) and have higher sales. You forget that the group of hardcore, traditionalist M3 buyers is tiny compared to those buying M3s. The next gen M3 will have a VERY different character than the current and past M3s and I bet (economy aside) it will outsell the current generation in spite of the traditionalists (who represent a small, small portion of the M3 buying public) screaming murder.

Anyway, saying that more torque in the M3 would make if have less character and would be bad shouts bias and fanboyism. I can (and do) understand how many people would prefer the current M3 to other cars like the C63 but I saying that if you added more torque to the M3 it becomes less appealing is... well... silly I stand by my opinion that 98% of us would choose and M3 with more torque all else being equal. Wanting a car with lower torque may be true for a very, very, very small portion of M3 owners who are diehard traditionalists and for many of those folks, the E46 M3 is probably the better choice anyway (E92 is too soft). Remember when a V8 was considered blasphemy for the M3 because it was not in the "character" of the M3... well, it's funny how forward progress made most of the naysayers forgot all about their V8 concerns.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. We are all allowed to have our own opinion (even if mine is right j/k).
I like torque as well coming from a DINAN tuned N63 TTV8 with 575 ft/lbs @ 1700 rpm to my current 650 with 450 ft/lbs @ around the same RPM (waiting for DINAN S2 to be released) torque is fun - but from my limited seat time in M3's, including my very recently acquired 2012 ZCP/DCT M3 I appreciate the different driving characteristics of the high revving NA V8 in my E92

If i want lazy, effortless torque I will drive the "6"
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      02-07-2012, 01:00 PM   #102
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Quote:
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I think what the m3 has going for it is it's handling.
Other than that... Damn the c63 is awesome. I'm actually looking at some c63 next weekend. It is not as sporty as the m3 but it has a nice motor and sound which is important to me. I don't track my m3 do I'll never experience it's true potential anyway. For a driver like myself, c63 is perfect.
The only thing is that I find the c63 to not hold its value as well as the m3.

Isn't this beautiful?:



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