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      01-07-2012, 09:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
That argument is only valid for whites. Look back at the history of the Americas. Modern capitalism in the 1500s? Not quite. Wipe out the natives then implement blacks to build the country. Once they established themselves as the hegemonic status quo, they can then say "equal opportunity for all"- knowing that this socially constructed idea will benefit them more. It's not like capitalism is a naturally occurring idea. Economic trade, maybe yes. But the idea of capitalism as an equal opportunity for all is socially constructed and is totally bullshit.

But again, you don't really think we're all equal with the same life chances and resources do you?

Only for whites? You're right, just like an african-american can never become president? Sigh..
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      01-07-2012, 09:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by matthewk View Post
That is absurd.

Are you really going to tell me if YOU, develop a product, learn a skill, or innately provide a valuable service, and you innovate and market that thing of value, and if EVERYTHING you do is directed towards realizing gain from that thing of value you don't have the same opportunity as anyone else? Seriously what on earth will hold you back or oppress you other than yourself?
That argument is only valid for whites. Look back at the history of the Americas. Modern capitalism in the 1500s? Not quite. Wipe out the natives then implement blacks to build the country. Once they established themselves as the hegemonic status quo, they can then say "equal opportunity for all"- knowing that this socially constructed idea will benefit them more. It's not like capitalism is a naturally occurring idea. Economic trade, maybe yes. But the idea of capitalism as an equal opportunity for all is socially constructed and is totally bullshit.

But again, you don't really think we're all equal with the same life chances and resources do you?
I dont understand how people don't get this lol.. In any class structure in a society where one group is above another, the group that is on top usually caries the benefits of being on top for 5-6 generations if something goes wrong for them I.e. lose money; and the benefits they have include things such as high end contacts which later help make even more money. Also the lower classes will usually carry the burden of being in the lower class for 5-5 years as well, the burden being of debt, poor contacts etc., besides the exceptions of over night millionaires or professional athletes. In my opinion this is by far more of a sociological issue then economical issue. And also in any class structure where social mobility exists, no one would work in harder fields such as being a doctor without a big reward other wise why would anyone work 20x as hard as someone working at McDonalds and get paid the same as them, it just doesn't make sense lol.. I'm a double major in Econ/Finance
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      01-07-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
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I dont understand how people don't get this lol.. In any class structure in a society where one group is above another, the group that is on top usually caries the benefits of being on top for 5-6 generations if something goes wrong for them I.e. lose money; and the benefits they have include things such as high end contacts which later help make even more money. Also the lower classes will usually carry the burden of being in the lower class for 5-5 years as well, the burden being of debt, poor contacts etc., besides the exceptions of over night millionaires or professional athletes. In my opinion this is by far more of a sociological issue then economical issue. And also in any class structure where social mobility exists, no one would work in harder fields such as being a doctor without a big reward other wise why would anyone work 20x as hard as someone working at McDonalds and get paid the same as them, it just doesn't make sense lol.. I'm a double major in Econ/Finance
And apparently you listen in class... Bravo..
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      01-07-2012, 11:09 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hisam135i View Post
I dont understand how people don't get this lol.. In any class structure in a society where one group is above another, the group that is on top usually caries the benefits of being on top for 5-6 generations if something goes wrong for them I.e. lose money; and the benefits they have include things such as high end contacts which later help make even more money. Also the lower classes will usually carry the burden of being in the lower class for 5-5 years as well, the burden being of debt, poor contacts etc., besides the exceptions of over night millionaires or professional athletes. In my opinion this is by far more of a sociological issue then economical issue. And also in any class structure where social mobility exists, no one would work in harder fields such as being a doctor without a big reward other wise why would anyone work 20x as hard as someone working at McDonalds and get paid the same as them, it just doesn't make sense lol.. I'm a double major in Econ/Finance
+1, Exactly
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      01-07-2012, 11:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by matthewk View Post
We are born with our looks, success is a product of what we do. What we do is completely in our control.

I think you should go back and re-read the OP. It's all about anti-socialisim and not leveling the playing field, just as you have spoken. The professor was making the class see that leveling the field was a very poor choice to make. Perhaps you mis-understood.
that was a reply to another post. im on your side here. the only thing i argue, is that to an extent there are things that arent equal and wont ever be. thats the only thing we disagree on. Their is nothing we can do about it is what i was trying to say.

EDIT: by unequal things im speaking of intelligence and those who are easily persuaded of success so much that they dont see whether something is actually going to work or not. (get rich quick type people, pyramid scheme people etc)

Last edited by txz4; 01-07-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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      01-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hisam135i View Post
I dont understand how people don't get this lol.. In any class structure in a society where one group is above another, the group that is on top usually caries the benefits of being on top for 5-6 generations if something goes wrong for them I.e. lose money; and the benefits they have include things such as high end contacts which later help make even more money. Also the lower classes will usually carry the burden of being in the lower class for 5-5 years as well, the burden being of debt, poor contacts etc., besides the exceptions of over night millionaires or professional athletes. In my opinion this is by far more of a sociological issue then economical issue. And also in any class structure where social mobility exists, no one would work in harder fields such as being a doctor without a big reward other wise why would anyone work 20x as hard as someone working at McDonalds and get paid the same as them, it just doesn't make sense lol.. I'm a double major in Econ/Finance
What your saying is exactly true, the biggest thing people dont understand though is not necessarily the above, but instead risk. People dont want to see that you get paid for risk, if you own a business your getting paid for the risk of if it goes down you have to pay for it. it goes into the whole working 20x harder idea. Another thing is that most people who work in manual labor/fast food would try and preach how they work 20x harder than a doctor hence why i think you wrote its a sociological issue, i dont think its just that though. I think its a question of philosophy, intelligence, and education coupled with the sense of entitlement that seems to be running rampant more and more every year. These people who argue about how hard working some menial job is, dont see that when business owners and those high up in large companies take the work home with them, in a sense they never get too far from work at any given time. While those at the bottom dont see and often never see this due to certain circumstances. Chiefly among them lack of education or lack of drive to learn.
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      01-07-2012, 01:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
That argument is only valid for whites. Look back at the history of the Americas. Modern capitalism in the 1500s? Not quite. Wipe out the natives then implement blacks to build the country. Once they established themselves as the hegemonic status quo, they can then say "equal opportunity for all"- knowing that this socially constructed idea will benefit them more. It's not like capitalism is a naturally occurring idea. Economic trade, maybe yes. But the idea of capitalism as an equal opportunity for all is socially constructed and is totally bullshit.

But again, you don't really think we're all equal with the same life chances and resources do you?

Only for whites? You're right, just like an african-american can never become president? Sigh..
And because a black guy is in office, there's no racism anymore so equality is present for all.

You business and Econ majors are so small minded and enclosed in your own bubble. All you care about is your own self interest.
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      01-07-2012, 01:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
You business and Econ majors are so small minded and enclosed in your own bubble. All you care about is your own self interest.
right...

self interest drives the economy so.... fuck yea we are badasses

Last edited by ghosthi32; 01-07-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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      01-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by ghosthi32 View Post
right...

self interest drives the economy so.... fuck yea we are badasses


Pretty sure self interest has fed more mouths than charity has....
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      01-07-2012, 03:58 PM   #32
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Professor is a genius.
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      01-07-2012, 04:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
And because a black guy is in office, there's no racism anymore so equality is present for all.
If I was black, asian, hispanic, indian, middle eastern, etc I could have gotten government subsidies for my $100k grad school tuition, but I wasn't eligible because of my race. So I guess I have to agree with you, equality isn't really present for all.
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      01-07-2012, 10:15 PM   #34
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A liberal muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx, known atheist

"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!"

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock.

"How old is this rock, pinhead?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied "4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian"

"Wrong. It's been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real... then it should be an animal now"

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears. The same tears liberals cry for the "poor" (who today live in such luxury that most own refrigerators) when they jealously try to claw justly earned wealth from the deserving job creators. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, DeShawn Washington, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a sophist liberal professor. He wished so much that he had a gun to shoot himself from embarrassment, but he himself had petitioned against them!

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named "Small Government" flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

Semper Fi.
p.s. close the borders
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      01-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewk View Post
If I was black, asian, hispanic, indian, middle eastern, etc I could have gotten government subsidies for my $100k grad school tuition, but I wasn't eligible because of my race. So I guess I have to agree with you, equality isn't really present for all.
Government subsidies or a scholarship?

What government subsidy or scholarship weren't you eligible for? I'm curious cause most race based scholarships are privately funded and not issued by schools except for a select few universities who have a very bad past like U of Maryland.
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      01-08-2012, 12:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
A liberal muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx, known atheist

"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!"

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock.

"How old is this rock, pinhead?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied "4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian"

"Wrong. It's been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real... then it should be an animal now"

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears. The same tears liberals cry for the "poor" (who today live in such luxury that most own refrigerators) when they jealously try to claw justly earned wealth from the deserving job creators. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, DeShawn Washington, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a sophist liberal professor. He wished so much that he had a gun to shoot himself from embarrassment, but he himself had petitioned against them!

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named "Small Government" flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

Semper Fi.
p.s. close the borders
EPIC, i actually just cried a tear...praise jesus

for the record im not christian, im pro choice (to an extent), and support making ones own decisions. But also, i support limited gov in regards to economics (and pretty much everything) and the reason is simple. It works....
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      01-08-2012, 02:25 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
A liberal muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx, known atheist

"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!"

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock.

"How old is this rock, pinhead?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied "4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian"

"Wrong. It's been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real... then it should be an animal now"

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears. The same tears liberals cry for the "poor" (who today live in such luxury that most own refrigerators) when they jealously try to claw justly earned wealth from the deserving job creators. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, DeShawn Washington, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a sophist liberal professor. He wished so much that he had a gun to shoot himself from embarrassment, but he himself had petitioned against them!

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named "Small Government" flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

Semper Fi.
p.s. close the borders
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      01-08-2012, 11:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
No. The government taxes us, so WE pay for...

The government does not generate income, it taxes the income of individuals and companies.

Win, so your paying for your own shit and then someone elses shit and then the gov's shit.
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      01-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
That argument is only valid for whites. Look back at the history of the Americas. Modern capitalism in the 1500s? Not quite. Wipe out the natives then implement blacks to build the country. Once they established themselves as the hegemonic status quo, they can then say "equal opportunity for all"- knowing that this socially constructed idea will benefit them more. It's not like capitalism is a naturally occurring idea. Economic trade, maybe yes. But the idea of capitalism as an equal opportunity for all is socially constructed and is totally bullshit.

But again, you don't really think we're all equal with the same life chances and resources do you?
mmmh, smells like truth in here.
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      01-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AiyahPK View Post
You business and Econ majors are so small minded and enclosed in your own bubble. All you care about is your own self interest.
we are not all that bad you know

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthi32 View Post
right...

self interest drives the economy so.... fuck yea we are badasses
Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post


Pretty sure self interest has fed more mouths than charity has....
I like pursuing self interests. But, fulfiling self interest while helping others is a big +1 nothing better then a win win situation for everyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by chungdae View Post
Professor is a genius.
Agreed wish there were more professors like this, to give their students a real perspective of how the world works..
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      01-09-2012, 01:44 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisam135i View Post
I dont understand how people don't get this lol.. In any class structure in a society where one group is above another, the group that is on top usually caries the benefits of being on top for 5-6 generations if something goes wrong for them I.e. lose money; and the benefits they have include things such as high end contacts which later help make even more money. Also the lower classes will usually carry the burden of being in the lower class for 5-5 years as well, the burden being of debt, poor contacts etc., besides the exceptions of over night millionaires or professional athletes. In my opinion this is by far more of a sociological issue then economical issue. And also in any class structure where social mobility exists, no one would work in harder fields such as being a doctor without a big reward other wise why would anyone work 20x as hard as someone working at McDonalds and get paid the same as them, it just doesn't make sense lol.. I'm a double major in Econ/Finance
What your saying is exactly true, the biggest thing people dont understand though is not necessarily the above, but instead risk. People dont want to see that you get paid for risk, if you own a business your getting paid for the risk of if it goes down you have to pay for it. it goes into the whole working 20x harder idea. Another thing is that most people who work in manual labor/fast food would try and preach how they work 20x harder than a doctor hence why i think you wrote its a sociological issue, i dont think its just that though. I think its a question of philosophy, intelligence, and education coupled with the sense of entitlement that seems to be running rampant more and more every year. These people who argue about how hard working some menial job is, dont see that when business owners and those high up in large companies take the work home with them, in a sense they never get too far from work at any given time. While those at the bottom dont see and often never see this due to certain circumstances. Chiefly among them lack of education or lack of drive to learn.
Exactly, glad you agree
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      01-09-2012, 07:24 PM   #42
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Exactly, glad you agree
i got to grow up watching my parent build a corporation from the ground up. Also eye opening is seeing a corporations payroll and the amount going in and out every month (especially taxes). many people in business school had no idea what exactly a payroll tax even was... Shocking to say the least.
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      01-09-2012, 08:19 PM   #43
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i got to grow up watching my parent build a corporation from the ground up. Also eye opening is seeing a corporations payroll and the amount going in and out every month (especially taxes). many people in business school had no idea what exactly a payroll tax even was... Shocking to say the least.
I agree its pretty amazing how everything pieces together, we discussed it thoroughly in my financial accounting course it was honestly shocking. It's seriously a pain in the neck to do all the work for pay roll tax for a place with more then 10 people LOL
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      01-10-2012, 02:01 AM   #44
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I agree its pretty amazing how everything pieces together, we discussed it thoroughly in my financial accounting course it was honestly shocking. It's seriously a pain in the neck to do all the work for pay roll tax for a place with more then 10 people LOL
PayWin, makes payroll for a 60something employee company a 45 minute proposition if that (assuming no changes in payrate or personal info). Highly recommend.
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