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      06-25-2007, 07:27 AM   #89
anees
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We should keep in mind the design criteria that BMW governs itself by. First and foremost is engine displacement, big taxes for big displacements.

Everyone thought the M5 / M7 V10 had too little torque when when the specs were first released but the quiet little revolution that BMW is leading is the drivetrain innovation.
  1. Keep the drivetrain light - else you get monsterous weights like the AMGs and more power is needed to beat the rotating mass required to support big torque. Light weight engines allow it to rev through the powerband faster (less inertia to fight).
  2. Close ratio gearboxes - in the vid attached, the Z06 dies in 5th gear. Gearing with an optimal powerband is way the M6 can beat cars like Gallardo. If I were in the market for a new M3, I would be waiting for the 7 speed box
Also the boss of M division saw the number of people who actually tracked the cars to be really low and that people didn't want to give up the luxuries. So BMW M is just buidling the cars that the customers want.

The M3 will be doing just fine......it is going to shame the RS4 in a straight line and around the track.


I beg to differ here...the drivetrain revolution has already been proved by Porsche and Subaru. There is a reason why they have not gone to 8 cyclinder and above engine blocks to get the most power.
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      06-25-2007, 07:45 AM   #90
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I beg to differ here...the drivetrain revolution has already been proved by Porsche and Subaru. There is a reason why they have not gone to 8 cyclinder and above engine blocks to get the most power.
Porsche already builds a V8 turbo that has more power that its flat six turbo, it is in the Cayenne. The same motor will find its way into a sedan soon.

Porsche sticks to the flat six in its current sports cars (924, 944 or 928 anyone?) because its customers would revolt if they changed.
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      06-25-2007, 08:07 AM   #91
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No, but don't blink or you'll miss GT-R's and CTS-V's dancing on your 997's head
The GT-R is going to be very limited production and it will be almost impossible to get one.

I went to Nissan last week to place a deposit on one and the owner of the dealership told me that whether I put a deposit down or not, it won't make a difference. He said each dealership is only getting about 1 or 2 GT-R's every year. When the car comes out they will put it on the showroom floor and give it to the highest bidder. There is going to be a serious markup on that car. If you're going to spend that much money on a Nissan you could go for plenty of other cars.
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      06-25-2007, 10:36 AM   #92
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I beg to differ here...the drivetrain revolution has already been proved by Porsche and Subaru. There is a reason why they have not gone to 8 cyclinder and above engine blocks to get the most power.
Revolution and Evolution are 2 different things.... Those Boxer engines have been around since the 1960's....good engines as you would expect if you had 40 years of development.... But you can only eek out so much power out of atmospheric 6 cylinders, I wonder what the path will be for the next GT3.

BTW, Porsche only developed a watercooled engine for the 911 GT1 at Lemans and didn't bring it to production until the 996 (forgetting the 924 / 944 / 928).... Hardly revolutionary.


You need cylinders and displacement to get power.....unless Porsche gets off its religion on Rear Flat-6 engines, the likes of MB / BMW / Audi are going to blow them away when they finally develop real sportscars (like the R8.....but not really since it has Quattro).
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      06-26-2007, 10:46 AM   #93
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Revolution and Evolution are 2 different things.... Those Boxer engines have been around since the 1960's....good engines as you would expect if you had 40 years of development.... But you can only eek out so much power out of atmospheric 6 cylinders, I wonder what the path will be for the next GT3.

BTW, Porsche only developed a watercooled engine for the 911 GT1 at Lemans and didn't bring it to production until the 996 (forgetting the 924 / 944 / 928).... Hardly revolutionary.


You need cylinders and displacement to get power.....unless Porsche gets off its religion on Rear Flat-6 engines, the likes of MB / BMW / Audi are going to blow them away when they finally develop real sportscars (like the R8.....but not really since it has Quattro).


Porsche are built on a different premis. They don't need high horsepower engines in their cars because they keep their cars light. Acceleration is only ONE part of racing (tracking, auto-x, events, gtr..etc) BMW's, even the M3 is not designed around Porsche's winning formula. The flat six's will get DFI next year and about 9% - 15% more HP also becomming slightly lighter. Thus making it slightly quicker.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking a BMW will out track a Porsche, it won't. But in the BMW you do get a quiet interior, a stereo that isn't shit and no squeeks or rattles that kinds part of Porsches heritage.

The new M3 is a little bit pigish (weight) if you ask me. I hope it's agility is still there or many will consider it a bust.





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      06-26-2007, 10:53 AM   #94
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Porsche are built on a different premis. They don't need high horsepower engines in their cars because they keep their cars light. Acceleration is only ONE part of racing (tracking, auto-x, events, gtr..etc) BMW's, even the M3 is not designed around Porsche's winning formula. The flat six's will get DFI next year and about 9% - 15% more HP also becomming slightly lighter. Thus making it slightly quicker.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking a BMW will out track a Porsche, it won't. But in the BMW you do get a quiet interior, a stereo that isn't shit and no squeeks or rattles that kinds part of Porsches heritage.

The new M3 is a little bit pigish (weight) if you ask me. I hope it's agility is still there or many will consider it a bust.





-Garrett

The times are a changing my friend. The end of the dominance of the 911 in the sportscar segment is near. Audi's Ferdinand Piech (who married into the Porsche family, ironically) forced the development of the R8, which is the first direct competitor to the 911 from a German car company.

This broke the gentlemen's agreement between BMW, MB and Audi.....now you are going to see the R8 and BMW's dedicated sports car.

Porsche will not be able to maintain its dogmatic adherance to rear-engine drive cars.....it would be competitive. Even BMW has hinted they are going lightweight for the next generation of M cars with a modest increase in power.
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