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      12-30-2011, 04:31 PM   #1
Mr. ///M3 RD
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M3 Forum Administrator, Moderators why was this topic moved?

This is the topic ===> HERE that was moved in less then 24 hours of being posted to the …

Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing area of this forum

I posted this topic for the following reasons in the General Forum:

1) Similar threads were posted here in the General Forum as well as in the Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing Forum

2) Overwhelmingly Members expressed gross inconsistency that they experienced at dealerships when they handed over the keys for the first Break-in Service in as to what oil is to be changed i.e engine, transmission and differential.

3) Some members even listed the part numbers of oil that was used and in what major component of the car the oil was changed.

4) I personally asked my SA a week ago and got the wrong answer as well.

Having spend my entire working life in the field of Mechanical Engineering I know the harm this can cause if critical components of this car are not taken care of after the break-in period like removing contaminated oil and recharging with the right oil. I think I am well qualified to express my dis-believe for this sort of inconsistency on a car that most of us pay in the range of $70K to $80K for.

This is why I posted the former thread (even making reference to the afore mentioned threads) here in this General Forum since I find this inconsistency on behalf of BMW Service Departments totally unacceptable.

Sure if I had a question, beef or a complaint about oil I would certainly opened a thread in the Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing area of this forum area. As it was I posted it here in the General Forum since last I looked this forum area has in excess of 331,600 posts compared to the Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing area of this forum only having some 7,600.

I felt this topic important enough to be posted here in the General Forum for reasons given above. Further so that it is in the forefront of the new Members here.

It took a Member here to post the right link to help everyone out (if they had a chance to see it is posted in the .... Oil/Fluids/Servicing area.

Thank you Rob (robackja)
for doing this I’m sure it will now put this issue to bed.

Rob Posted this BMW PDF File ===> CLICK to open the BMW PDF File

It stated on Page 6 to 7

QUOTE …. 1200 Mile Service

The engine in your BMW M3 is a race-bred engine design which includes increased power output and maximum engine speeds compared to a conventional BMW 3 Series engine. The increased power output also affects other major drivetrain components, such as the transmission and the rear axle differential. The 1200 Mile Service requires changing the oil in the engine, as well as in the transmission (transmission fluid does not need to be changed for an M3 with the optional M-DCT Drivelogic transmission) and the differential.

NOTE: M3 with the optional M-DCT Drivelogic transmission does not require changing the transmission fluid. The fluid has a long-term rating and does not need to be changed except for system repairs.

END OF QUOTE

If nothing else this thread has brought to the forefront this excellent PDF file from BMW as posted by Thank you again Rob (robackja) that will now put clarity to this issue as does our maintenance area of our manuals.

It is a pity that we the Customer have to sit down and argue with a SA (at least in 50% of the cases if we look at the poll result of my initial post now hiding in another less visited area of this forum).

One last request I have before I depart for the Moderators … please if you are going to move this thread then please move it here

New and Pre-owned M3 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking / European Delivery / Dealer Reviews

Perhaps someone from BMW (I understand BMW employees read some of our posts) will see it and initiate a directive to all BMW Service Centers about clarity regarding this very important issue, so that it is clear that a M3 is not a regular 3 Series or as we say in Germany a Dreier.

Also if this thread is moved consider some of the other threads here on this General Forum to be moved as well like …

Is M3 a sports car?

Car insurance

If a woman drives a "nicer" car than you…

1200 mile service rant

I post this so that all you folks having or planning to purchase a new M3 here at the M3 Forum have a chance to download the PDF File just do it quick before it fades away.

So long

R-D

Happy New Year Everyone ... Be safe!

This is the sunset near the North Pole with the moon at its closest point last week.a scene you will probably never get to see in person, so take a moment and enjoy God at work at the North Pole. And, you also see the sun below the moon , an amazing photo and not one easily duplicated.
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Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 12-31-2011 at 02:32 PM. Reason: typo correction
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      12-30-2011, 08:17 PM   #2
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I think the point is he is hoping to keep it in this more trafficked area because it doesn't speak to the topic of maintenance/break in but rather about dealers and their lack of knowledge about the service requirements of these vehicles and what can be done about it. A fine point but I do see some merit in it.

I can recall one of the corvette engineers saying that they kept up with the major forums. He did not specify to what end but I doubt it is different with BMW. Most likely they are keeping tabs here since it is one of the most active BMW forums. Sounds crazy but true. Act on what they read is anybodies guess but I can say that manufacturers do listen to these forums at least somewhat at some times. With corvette it was criticism in the forums that led to them replacing the original C6 steering wheel and anyone who has read much about the cost of changing to a different steering wheel knows this is no small thing and costs money.

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      12-30-2011, 08:23 PM   #3
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Good to see you back!
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      12-30-2011, 08:27 PM   #4
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The mods do their best to keep the forums orginized. Which thread belongs where is subjective. Don't take it personal Rolf and I hope you stay on the forum. You are always polite and constructive in you comments.
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      12-30-2011, 11:40 PM   #5
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Good stuff Rolf... Hope we get some answers soon. I suggest a study. People from different parts of the country(maybe world where service is included) call their service department in the area and see what they say.

If anyone would do this it would be great for a study and would potentially show BMW the lack of standard knowledge between employees and the BMW service manual.

Info to get:

Dealer Name
Location
Answer to questions:
1. what is required for the 1200 mile break in(ask for detailed breakdown).
2. With DCT is it required to change DCT fluid at 1200(mostly asked to test their knowledge).

I will try to get mine posted soon.
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      12-31-2011, 12:12 AM   #6
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My m3 is my first BMW and I had such high expectations for customer service and mechanical service, especially with the M, I thought the SAs would be all excited to work with M3 instead of boring 328s... and that they would know everything about them.. WRONG. heheh

I have to hand-hold them on every step to make sure things are done right. It is depressing. If the m3 wasn't such an amazing machine, and places like these forums to get really good info, I'd probably would have got rid of the car already and never go back to BMW... but I love the m3, and with these forums I can at least make sure things are done right, so I have given up on thinking that BMW service is at some level above DODGE or FORD.

This should be a sticky IMHO (either in its own sticky or a sticky for new owners)
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      12-31-2011, 02:49 AM   #7
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I agree there is just way too much censorship here. Unless it is extremely off topic than why not let posts be left where people post them. Unless it clearly is just simply put in the wrong forum, if there is ANY question whether or not it belongs than why not just error on the side of leaving it to respect the OP wishes about choosing to post it there. The Mods unfortunately like all of us do not know everything about everything and perhaps posters sometimse know what they are doing any why they post it where they do.

Just do not know why such strict censorship happens over here-never seen any board like this. Don't get me wrong its great but I wish it could be a tad more lax.
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      12-31-2011, 10:23 AM   #8
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Rolf, you do not allow PMs, so I could not reply. Here is what I wanted to send you in return to your PM to me: -

Quote:
Interesting you should PM me.

I had my new e92 M3 go in for its first service this Thursday. My last M3, an E46, always got a schedule and a list of the work in detail on a BMW style invoice, just as when you buy parts or accessories. This time my current car has the 5 year all inclusive servicing pack, so it went in for a brake fluid change. Upon picking the car up I didn't get the invoice. However, I did get a sheet with a full run down of works completed, including non-service items such as a rattle fix and fixing of the A/C recirculation flap (stuffed open with leaves, apparently...).

The reason you do not get an invoice is because this goes to BMW for them to pay, so you never see it, and in fact you shouldn't see it, IMHO. This doesn't mean you shouldn't know what happened, however, but then the dealer group I use, Sytner BMW, are very good.

Feel free to use any part of this PM in your threads.

/0
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      12-31-2011, 11:13 AM   #9
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A good forum is one where healthy discussion occurs and people learn. I am new to here and am eagerly awaiting my new E92 M3. I am NOT a car nut by any means, I like them. But I want to learn more. I have here which is great, it can be kinda daunting. I also see some freaks here that need a life and think they can police or bully which is common as well.

I learned from Rolf's thread. Moreso than the debate concerning whether or not this car is a sports car.

Keeping this thread in a less hidden place would have perhaps created more dialogue which is good. Great actually. I don't blame the moderator for trying to keep this place neat and tidy but perhaps he could use a little discretion next time. The thread was getting a lot of attention so maybe it could have stayed.

Cheers all and Happy New Year.
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      12-31-2011, 12:34 PM   #10
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Hey Rolf, take off your sensitive pants and get back in here. Geeze.
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      12-31-2011, 01:24 PM   #11
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The thread made sense here, after all the point seemed to be asking owners what their opinion/experience was with regards to the 1200 service at the dealer, not simply about the service itself. So it was a general question posed to the broad audience of every M3 owner not a mechanical topic specific post.
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      12-31-2011, 01:46 PM   #12
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I really hope rofl didn't get banned from the forum for this. I miss my German buddy.
Moderator; IMO, this thread ought to become a sticky as well. Personally, I did not have any issues with my 1200mls service in Germany, but many US customers do. Why not help new forum members/owners out?
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      12-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luis_m3 View Post
I really hope rofl didn't get banned from the forum for this.
I really doubt someone would get banned for putting a thread in a particular place. Looks like Rolf decided to leave on his own. He seemed quite angry about his thread being moved. There could also have been more to what's been in the posted in the threads...
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      12-31-2011, 03:24 PM   #14
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Rolf, you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. If you want to leave the forum over this exceedingly minor issue, it is of course your prerogative, but it seems a lot like:
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      12-31-2011, 03:54 PM   #15
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i know how rolf feels...awhile back i got a pm from a mod concerning a comment i had left on a thread and why it was deleted. yea i got butthurt because i didnt see any good cause why my comment was deleted and why other people's comments which were actually offensive or mean were left on there. im sorry but this is a FORUM people...we are all hiding behind computers and when i got my comment deleted i felt bullied because i was accused of something i didnt do. bottom line: MODERATORS are just people behind comps just like the rest of the forum. i could care less about them because they take their jobs too seriously. dont ban people or do stupid things when you can't back it up. dont be hypocritical. on that note who knows i might be banned next but anyways happy new years everyone and just get into your m3 and drive
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      12-31-2011, 04:02 PM   #16
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I've had posts deleted just because I was explaining how I can afford an M3 at my age. lol.

Next we're going to have to have separate accounts for e90post, m3post, f10post etc.
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      12-31-2011, 06:14 PM   #17
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Rolf, I don't know all of the facts surrounding your feelings but I hope they will soon get settled and you decide to stay with this Forum. I find your comments and posts helpful.

My .02 cents.

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      12-31-2011, 07:20 PM   #18
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I'm a new guy, I know it. I have however been around some other car forums and if you turn this into a commentary about everything that was or was not done by the mods they are left with little choice but to do something, likely delete the thread. There was real merit to leaving it here and the fact that it remains despite almost surely having been read by moderators means that they are willing to leave it here at least for the moment. IMO the smart money says stick to the OPs point/issue/question and leave everything else go.
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      12-31-2011, 07:44 PM   #19
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I hope rolf doesn't leave. I still think the moderwtors and admins can do way better jobs than this! I am saying this because I was the admin of a big website before and we made rules for moderators as well as members. At least when a post get deleted or moved, the moderators should PM the user and explain why they did that. I had so many posts deleted just because I said the new one series is ugly! I did not get even a pm or something about the reason!
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      12-31-2011, 08:40 PM   #20
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Wow, I'm a bit surprised that a simple thread move caused such strong emotions.

The 1200 miles break-in service is of course a topic for the Maintenance forum as it explicitly mentions break-in discussions. Also, there's a sticky thread on the subject in the very same forum: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265139

It states that BMW issued a service bulletin back in 2009 to make sure the break-in service is done properly. Of course it is annoying if dealers don't follow this procedure correctly, but there's certainly no lack of communication by BMW Germany or BMW NA causing this.

Long story short, this issue has been addressed by BMW back in 2009 already and there's a sticky on the matter in the forum people would search for information on the break-in service. That's why your thread was moved to the correct forum (actually it should've been closed giving a link to said thread). I hope this helped to explain the situation better (maybe a PM would be the easier way next time ).

Happy New Year everyone!


Best regards,
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