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      12-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #23
aajami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqsmooth View Post
My gripe is about making 10 different versions of the same car that are very closely priced and perform closely as well. Isn't the GTS like $140,000? ZCP is just an option not another car like the 335is. I don't got a clue what the CRT is.Is that new?

Yeah, I wish the M3 would maintain its specialness, but with every new model coming out(with M3 parts) with another letter behind it's name just brings it down. I thought 335i was close enough performance-wise anyhow... It's not about putting people where they belong by what they drive. I was the same guy when I was driving my pathfinder, couldn't give a shit what other people were driving(all sorts of nice cars). I knew I was going to get the car that I wanted to drive someday. It just takes away from the experience.


edit: Looks like the GTS is $163k and CRT is the sedan version of the GTS at $185k.
I rather like all the segmentation. I look at what Porsche is doing with all the different variants of the 911 (a whopping 25 by my last count!), and I think it's great. When you give people more options to drive the specific type of car they want/can afford, the end result is a model lineup with more variety and individuality, and it makes it easier to identify with the type of driver behind the wheel.

At any rate, just enjoy what you have I'm sure most 335is drivers you meet will give you a giant thumbs up and wish to trade rides with you, if only for the day.
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Last edited by aajami; 12-27-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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      12-27-2011, 07:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I rather like all the segmentation. I look at what Porsche is doing with all the different variants of the 911 (a whopping 25 by my last count!), and I think it's great. When you give people more options to drive the specific type of car they want/can afford, the end result is a model lineup with more variety and individuality, and it makes it identify the type of driver behind the wheel.

At any rate, just enjoy what you have I'm sure most 335is drivers you meet will give you a giant thumbs up and wish to trade rides with you, if only for the day.
I don't know man. I bet that 335is driver could have gotten the m3 if he/she wanted to. There's not much separating the is from the m3 depending on the options(fully optioned is may be more expensive than a bare-bone m3). Instead of competing with a model from another company, I feel like it's competing within. In any case, porsche is a great example. I never understood that either, but when looking at the individual traits of each version of 911(NA, turbo, glass ceiling, convertible, etc...), they pretty much have something for everyone.
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      12-27-2011, 08:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jqsmooth View Post
I bet that 335is driver could have gotten the m3 if he/she wanted to.
the 335iS is a better DD than the M3

I have a Z4 35i with DCT, and I prefer driving it around town than the M3.

My M3 is low (actually I think the Z4 is lower, but for some reason the M scrapes more often...), I don't have tire warranty so I need to be careful with potholes, I have to keep looking around for cops....

but all that aside, the DCT Software in the Z4 is much smoother at lower RPMs than the M3 DCT. You don't hear the clunk noise of the gears changing, the D shifts are smoother (though not as precise IMO), and the 300lbs of torque is perfect.
I really do love the N54 engine as a DD; but I personally dislike it on the track. I've tracked my Z4s, and although they do handle well, the engine simply doesn't like to rev high. Maybe I'm just used to being able to keep my RPMs steady at high rpms with my S65... I never really tracked a N54 prior to tracking with the S65, so I wonder how i would feel if I had never tracked a S65....
To this day I regret not tracking my 335i. My Z4s both have had heat issues, but they've all been stock. My 335i had full bolt ons (minus meth), and I don't think it would have had the same heat issues...though it was an e93 as well... the link to my e93 is in my sig for anyone who's interested in checking it out

Also, the price difference between a 335iS and a M3, similarly optioned, is I think about $10k, give or take.

Loaded iS should be about 68-72k, while a loaded M3 can be about 82-85k (excluding indiv options, I'm referring to e93s as that's what I researched when I was getting a car last year)
I remember the iS I wanted was about 69k, while my M3 is priced at 84k.
So there's quite a bit of difference.
I lease, so the MF and residual played a much bigger part than the MSRP, but nonetheless, there is a relatively decent price difference between the two.

I personally like the iS a lot.
I wish they didn't have a regular 335i and just made the iS standard... but hey I'm not really in the business of selling cars, so what do I know?
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      12-27-2011, 08:08 PM   #26
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Both the 335is and 135i get the exact same DCT as the M3. All made by getrag and all 7 speed and all rev match (<-- answering an earlier question)
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      12-27-2011, 08:24 PM   #27
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The dct in the 335/135 does not shift as fast a the dct in the m3 and does not have the same ferocity in its shifts either. Also similar to pdk in the Porsche the dct in non m models can be shifted into park and the car lurches forward from a stop when you let go of the brake. It's still a great transmission but it's more tame more like an auto than what we are used to in the m3.
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      12-27-2011, 08:37 PM   #28
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Really does not matter how "close" in performance these inferior cars come because at the end of the day 90 percent of M buyers want exclusivity. Other than california where lambos are common, the M cars are a relatively rare site. I live in phoenix and all the uber wealthy areas and hot spots still do not commonly have M cars. Not saying I do not see them often but by no means are they common v. the 335's are literally plastered across the city.

People want the looks and the exclusivity even if they are totally naive to the fact a lesser car is just as fast or potentially faster.

However I think bmw may lose the 10 percent of m3 drivers who bought the car for the raw attributes and race-car feel. Something about all the noise and brutal acceleration howl that is worth 200 hp in my eyes. Once the m3 or any M becomes a totally quiet turbo comfort car, the rawness is lost and the buyers might as well get a "lesser" model since it feels virtually the same as the ms of the future
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      12-27-2011, 08:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmud///M View Post
Both the 335is and 135i get the exact same DCT as the M3. All made by getrag and all 7 speed and all rev match (<-- answering an earlier question)
In case anyone is interested, Getrag DCTs our BMW M3s, Z4 35i (and iS), Ferrari California, 458 Italia, Mbenz SLS and the EVO X.



Also remember, in the M, you get S1-S6, and D1-D5.

While in the Z4, there's only normal, sport, sport+
Sport and Sport+ are the same shift speed (from member z4z4z4)



The M-DCT has a rev limit of 9k/min, with a max of 442 ft lbs torque (600nm).... strange since I've seen M-DCT S/C M3s hit higher numbers (I think)

Strangely though, I remember when I was researching the Getrag DCT, I found that the Z4 had a max of mdi 400 tq, while the M3 had more...but I guess I must be remembering it wrong...



Source: DCTFacts, bimmerpost, etc.

http://www.dctfacts.com/archive/2009...trags-dct.aspx
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      12-27-2011, 09:36 PM   #30
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my understanding is that they are very differant units and that the 335is DCT is not adjustable, or not to the degree that is available in teh M3. That is what my local dealership told me anyway.
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      12-27-2011, 10:23 PM   #31
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If the 1M gets a M3 DCT, I think we are in TROUBLE!!!!! Well, at least until the new generation M3 comes out!!!! Can't wait!!!
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      12-27-2011, 11:11 PM   #32
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If the 1M gets a M3 DCT, I think we are in TROUBLE!!!!! Well, at least until the new generation M3 comes out!!!! Can't wait!!!
BMW has said that it nixed plans to make the 1M with a DCT, though I agree that it would be a world beater with that transmission.

I hope an intrepid 1M owner does a DCT conversion. That would be epic to see.
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      12-28-2011, 12:34 AM   #33
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Yes. However I noticed that you can put the 335is into Park. Which people say is not the case in the M
Actually, its not the same. The DCT in the ///M was the first DCT rated to 9k rpms, actually beat the F458 to the punch by I think 6-months, a fact a current F458 owner reminded me of and gave ///M props for

So the thing they have in common is that they are both DCT, but some hardware and software seems to be different in the two......BMW has not discussed the difference in any OFFICIAL literature that I know of, but if someone has such literature PLEASE SHARE!!!!

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      12-28-2011, 01:30 AM   #34
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[quote=persian54;11047670]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmud///M View Post
Both the 335is and 135i get the exact same DCT as the M3. All made by getrag and all 7 speed and all rev match (<-- answering an earlier question)
In case anyone is interested, Getrag DCTs our BMW M3s, Z4 35i (and iS), Ferrari California, 458 Italia, Mbenz SLS and the EVO X.



Also remember, in the M, you get S1-S6, and D1-D5.

While in the Z4, there's only normal, sport, sport
Sport and Sport are the same shift speed (from member z4z4z4)
[IMG]http://e89.zpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=622286
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      12-28-2011, 01:32 AM   #35
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(Edit above post...donno y it didnt write it)

Don't forget the 7-speed DCT in the Bugatti veyron Persian!
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      12-28-2011, 01:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
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(Edit above post...donno y it didnt write it)

Don't forget the 7-speed DCT in the Bugatti veyron Persian!
The Bugatti's transmission is made by Ricardo, not Getrag.
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      12-28-2011, 02:05 AM   #37
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The Bugatti's transmission is made by Ricardo, not Getrag.
my mistake.

I stand corrected
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      12-28-2011, 02:23 AM   #38
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my mistake.

I stand corrected
No worries, sir. With a max rating of ~450 ft./lbs of torque for the Getrag unit, the Veyron would need three of them to handle all that power!
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      12-28-2011, 02:30 AM   #39
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Quote:
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No worries, sir. With a max rating of ~450 ft./lbs of torque for the Getrag unit, the Veyron would need three of them to handle all that power!


for some reason i thought i read getrag as their supplier
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      12-28-2011, 06:23 AM   #40
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does the 335 transmission rev match? I didn't think it was the same...
Yes it does, even on a 328i
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      12-28-2011, 12:42 PM   #41
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Yes it does, even on a 328i
That's not rev matching....
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