Car and Driver 2012 M3 ZCP vs. 2012 C63 AMG coupe - Page 3

JasonCSU · 12-09-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR///M3

why no DCT M3?? that would have done better the the accelerations testing and is more similar to the mercedes gearbox

It's possible that a DCT M3 press car wasn't available. Magazines and other test groups aren't always able to get the exact test vehicles they want when running comparisons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by penny31

because car and driver knows that they should test sports cars in 6mt

It could also be that Car and Driver is adhering to their own "Save the Manuals" campaign.

IFX · 12-09-2011, 01:05 PM

that's odd, you would've thought that Benz would've put a C/F roof..

1sikbmr · 12-09-2011, 01:11 PM

long live the M3

img · 12-09-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocJohn

One thing that I found very interesting in the C&D specs.

They now report the "center of gravity" for the vehicle.

I find this very interesting, especially if you track your car. Most of the time, companies claim that they have a low CG, but it is never verified. Lots of haters make fun of the CF roof and bmws claim to lower CG....but it is 1.5 inches lower than the benz, and 5 inches lower than the recent Buicks and volvos!

Also of interest is that it is only 1 inch higher than a cayman R, despite the fact that the M3 is 5 inches taller overall, and is also sedan-like in design. That inch could easily be the lower CG of the Boxer motor.
All I can say is BRAVO to BMW's engineers!

Also, one thing that is nice about the MT M3...it is lighter. The scales seem to suggest that it is 90 LBS lighter than the DCT. I would still pick a dct for the track, but in a car that is marginally too heavy to start with, I like the idea that I don't have those 90 lbs ahead of the midline of the car!

Where are you finding CG #s? And 1 inch lower CG is a lot.

mahmud///M · 12-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penny31

because car and driver knows that they should test sports cars in 6mt

this goes to show that brute power is not everything. The C has so much more power and torque yet STILL cant BEAT the M. I dont care how close it was, the M is still best bro..and will always be the best in its class.

rmani · 12-09-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3Bimmer

Gooo M3

THIS

turbo8765 · 12-09-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Also, one thing that is nice about the MT M3...it is lighter. The scales seem to suggest that it is 90 LBS lighter than the DCT. I would still pick a dct for the track, but in a car that is marginally too heavy to start with, I like the idea that I don't have those 90 lbs ahead of the midline of the car!

The difference in weight between the two transmissions is no where near 90#, more like 40 (don't remember the exact number).

I had an '09 6mt sunroof car that weighed 30# more than my '11 DCT/comp/carbon roof (other equipment was the same). I was really surprised that the DCT car was lighter, obviously the carbon roof helps but wow. This is with both cars 100% stock, full fuel, on the same corner scales. The point is, the weight penalty for the DCT is low enough to not be a consideration when choosing which transmission you want.

The most interesting thing to me is that the '11 up cars seem quicker than the earlier cars (regardless of transmission).

JulieDriving · 12-09-2011, 01:50 PM

I am sooo glad I put in an order for an 2012 m3. Not because it "beat" the AMG (it is a virtual tie), but because it's so damn good, it leaves this generation still as a benchmark, the one to beat...

I thought the 335i was the best car I ever had. I thought I wouldn't notice the difference enough between a 335i and the M3 in regular street driving, I thought it wouldn't be worth the extra money or gas mileage disadvantage (over getting another 335).

Then I drove one...

It's a masterpiece. I want one...

OSAB1 · 12-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Only thing AMG does well is exhaust note. Otherwise the cars drive like trucks.

Mr. ///M3 RD · 12-09-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

I am sooo glad I put in an order for an 2012 m3. Not because it "beat" the AMG (it is a virtual tie), but because it's so damn good, it leaves this generation still as a benchmark, the one to beat...

I thought the 335i was the best car I ever had. I thought I wouldn't notice the difference enough between a 335i and the M3 in regular street driving, I thought it wouldn't be worth the extra money or gas mileage disadvantage (over getting another 335).

Then I drove one...

It's a masterpiece. I want one...

Julie, Congratulation on your purchase. When will you take delivery of your 2012 M3?

I take it you have seen this beauty that is for sale? ===>Click to have peak

JulieDriving · 12-09-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Julie, Congratulation on your purchase. When will you take delivery of your 2012 M3?

I take it you have seen this beauty that is for sale? ===>Click to have peak

Yes Rolf, thanks. It would have been an awesome deal if that was exactly what I was looking for. But I thought, if I'm going to spend that kind of coin, might as well get exactly what I want.

Car will not arrive until the spring at least.

Mr. ///M3 RD · 12-09-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

Yes Rolf, thanks. It would have been an awesome deal if that was exactly what I was looking for. But I thought, if I'm going to spend that kind of coin, might as well get exactly what I want.

Car will not arrive until the spring at least.

I made the same final decision with some final push from my wife

Delivery of your new car in the spring will make for a grand 2012 and so much fun

DocJohn · 12-09-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo8765

The difference in weight between the two transmissions is no where near 90#, more like 40 (don't remember the exact number).

I had an '09 6mt sunroof car that weighed 30# more than my '11 DCT/comp/carbon roof (other equipment was the same). I was really surprised that the DCT car was lighter, obviously the carbon roof helps but wow. This is with both cars 100% stock, full fuel, on the same corner scales. The point is, the weight penalty for the DCT is low enough to not be a consideration when choosing which transmission you want.

The most interesting thing to me is that the '11 up cars seem quicker than the earlier cars (regardless of transmission).

Hi There!

The numbers that I used came from the "data sheet" that you can download. My data point for M6T was 9/15/11 with a tested weight of 3552.
My second data point is for the DCT7, and it comes from the data panel marked 6/9/08 with a weight of 3630. Both cars were quite similar, so I assumed that the transmission was the major variable. Neither had sunroof, which is another large variable. the difference is 78 lbs. (I just glanced at it and my math came out as "90 lbs"...sorry about that!
These weights are determined by C&D and not manufacturer.

I also wonder if the cars are faster because of the loss of the carbon filter on the intake??

DocJohn · 12-09-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by img

Where are you finding CG #s? And 1 inch lower CG is a lot.

Hello!

The CG numbers are on the data panel, right under the weight distribution part. they quietly snuck it in a few months ago, right after they announced the capability whilst testing the Cayman R and GT3.

bdn3d · 12-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, I definitely like the ssr wheels but in my research I have found that they go for 3300 and that the lowest i found, which is double the forgestars I'm in need o tires to so I'm trying to get everything for 3k or less, call me cheap but that's my budget.

Ateam · 12-09-2011, 05:04 PM

I hope Hot|Ice reads this (think that is who bought the c63 and was arguing how the c63 coupe was only 100 pounds heavier. Well here you have it-444 pounds heavier for the coupe!

Insane. So it really explains why with much less hp, that it can pretty much keep up even though still slower in a straight line. Power is not everything as you all know.

Great cars,though-truly would be fun to own both as they provide a totally different expereince.

Arben72 · 12-09-2011, 06:11 PM

I enjoyed test driving a 2012 c63 coupe. It's just the brakes were so soft I couldn't stand it.

samchoi604 · 12-09-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Heat

There’s a key philosophical difference between the M3 and the C63 that is best illustrated by their roofs. To save weight and lower the center of gravity, the M3 has a carbon-fiber roof panel. Every C63 coupe has a giant glass sunroof that adds weight up high. The M3 is more than 400 pounds lighter and has a 1.5-inch-lower center of gravity—two reasons the BMW enjoys livelier handling than the C63.

Didn't realize that the C63 was so top heavy. WTF were they thinking? Praises for BMW for making the M3 a true sports car literally from top to bottom.

Eugene-TAIWAN · 12-09-2011, 06:37 PM

Decals look nice

m33 · 12-09-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR///M3

why no DCT M3?? that would have done better the the accelerations testing and is more similar to the mercedes gearbox

BMW was being gentle ... Hehheeh

gblansten · 12-09-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSAB1

Only thing AMG does well is exhaust note. Otherwise the cars drive like trucks.

Have you had much seat time in a C63?

m balla · 12-09-2011, 09:36 PM

Does anyone have insight into the c55 amg? Wonder how it will stack up to the new m boss...

12-09-2011, 01:11 PM	#47
1sikbmr Brigadier General Drives: E90 M3 6MT Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: New York Posts: 3,106 iTrader: (12)	long live the M3 __________________ E90 ///M3 6MT Atlantis Blue - Fox red Gloss black grilles/Red gills\|V1 hardwire\|Painted reflectors\|ZHP lighted shift knob\|VMR V710 silver\|GTS lip\|Lux custom 8k kit\|AA Green Filter\| AA Pulley\| RPI GTM Exhaust\|Sosi x-pipe\|BMW Performance Steering Wheel V1\|

12-09-2011, 01:50 PM	#52
JulieDriving Female driving enthusiast :P Drives: Bimmer Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,230 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 335i Coupe [5.00] 2013 BMW M3 Coupe [5.00]	I am sooo glad I put in an order for an 2012 m3. Not because it "beat" the AMG (it is a virtual tie), but because it's so damn good, it leaves this generation still as a benchmark, the one to beat... I thought the 335i was the best car I ever had. I thought I wouldn't notice the difference enough between a 335i and the M3 in regular street driving, I thought it wouldn't be worth the extra money or gas mileage disadvantage (over getting another 335). Then I drove one... It's a masterpiece. I want one... __________________ Present: 2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black) Past: 2010 335i coupe (Monaco Blue, Cream Beige, Grey Poplar)

12-09-2011, 04:03 PM	#59
bdn3d Private First Class Drives: Z4m Coupe/ Mini Cooper S Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 182 iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the suggestion, I definitely like the ssr wheels but in my research I have found that they go for 3300 and that the lowest i found, which is double the forgestars I'm in need o tires to so I'm trying to get everything for 3k or less, call me cheap but that's my budget. __________________ Good things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who HUSTLE!" -George Washington

12-09-2011, 06:37 PM	#63
Eugene-TAIWAN Brigadier General Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Posts: 3,104 iTrader: (4)	Decals look nice __________________ Past: Gintani stage3 M3 present: Porsche 993, 964,997.1 GT3, Panamera Turbo waiting to be delivered 2015: Porsche 991 GT3RS

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12-09-2011, 01:05 PM	#46
IFX Banned Drives: AW e46M/N54 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Fla. Posts: 2,545 iTrader: (1)	that's odd, you would've thought that Benz would've put a C/F roof..

12-09-2011, 02:19 PM	#53
OSAB1 Private Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: NY Posts: 79 iTrader: (0)	Only thing AMG does well is exhaust note. Otherwise the cars drive like trucks.

12-09-2011, 05:04 PM	#60
Ateam Banned Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,111 iTrader: (0)	I hope Hot\|Ice reads this (think that is who bought the c63 and was arguing how the c63 coupe was only 100 pounds heavier. Well here you have it-444 pounds heavier for the coupe! Insane. So it really explains why with much less hp, that it can pretty much keep up even though still slower in a straight line. Power is not everything as you all know. Great cars,though-truly would be fun to own both as they provide a totally different expereince.

12-09-2011, 06:11 PM	#61
Arben72 Second Lieutenant Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 218 iTrader: (0)	I enjoyed test driving a 2012 c63 coupe. It's just the brakes were so soft I couldn't stand it.

12-09-2011, 09:36 PM	#66
m balla m balla Drives: ///M Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: bslava Posts: 150 iTrader: (0)	Does anyone have insight into the c55 amg? Wonder how it will stack up to the new m boss...