BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > Regional Forums > USA - Southwest
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-02-2011, 07:15 PM   #1
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Anyone running with TDE @ MSR?

Anyone going? The weather should be fantastic. Shouldn't be any grass fires this time!
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-02-2011, 07:56 PM   #2
ThunderMoose
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

Posts: 951
iTrader: (0)

I am not going, but I see that TWS is putting on a PDS end of January. I'll be signing up for that one and possibly the PCA event the following week. Hopefully I'll see some of you guys out there.
ThunderMoose is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2011, 08:37 PM   #3
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Yeah, I was about to mention that. I think I can make it to that one.

BTW, the 1.7 mile part of MSR is like an ice skating rink in the wet. I think I've broken 60mph 4 times today and seen 7 people spin. I'm going about 20 mph in one section is so damned slick. But I'm learning a lot and this is very exciting...just a different kind of exciting.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 09:52 PM   #4
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Looks like 28/29 Jan from the track schedule.

Cliff notes for anyone going in the future....MSR (Cresson) is SUPER SLICK on the old section. A turn I'm usually doing about 50-60mph in I was crawling at 25mph bogging down in 4th gear. God forbids you down shift into 3rd...sideways!

I think I caught about 20 slides over the weekend and witnessed 12 spins I can remember. It was like driving in freezing rain. You couldn't even take a consistent line. You'll be good one lap. The very next, do the same thing...slide.

My nerves are shot but it was a great learning experience. If you ever have the chance to drive in the rain...DO IT! Just make sure you've got tread on your tires.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 09:19 AM   #5
M3roar
Lieutenant
 
M3roar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 e92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston, Texas

Posts: 428
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW M3 e92  [4.67]
1998 BMW M3  [4.25]
I love driving in the wet. It is probably the most valuable information you can learn that transitions to daily driving. Learning to recover from a slide in the rain is soo nice to know. You dont have to drive like a moron on public roads to slide either.
M3roar is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 03:45 PM   #6
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,014
iTrader: (0)

I went this past weekend and it was wet the whole time, raining on and off. But it was an absolute blast, and I even got promoted to blue group!

I also had a very instructive and humbling experience, though. I ran initially with DSC fully on, then changed to MDM partway through my second of 8 sessions. That worked very nicely and was a lot of fun; I passed tons of cars (even passed a few of the last cars out on the sessions where I was first out) and nobody ever got past me. I think part of the reason for that was that there were a lot of Corvettes that were being driven very carefully since their light rear and huge power to weight ratio makes it very easy for them to be overdriven especially in the rain, and a lot of them don't even have stability control. I could also definitely feel MDM helping me on some of the corner exits, so I knew it wasn't all me. It still made me feel like a rockstar though.

Anyway, at the end of the first day I asked if my instructor would drive my car. He said yes and that he wanted to anyway since he has an E36 M3, so we went out with yellow group, and holy hell he had BALLS! It was great to watch though because it helped me realize that I could trust my car to cope with more than I had been asking of it. So he started out in MDM saying that he never drives students' cars with everything off and that was especially true since it was wet, but in less than a lap he was giggling and whooping while he was flinging the car through corners, making comments like "M is a beautiful thing," as he charged over the straightaway crest into the downhill off-camber Turn 11 without even lifting off the throttle, and "I love this car, it's so predictable!" as he preemptively caught oversteer on corner exits. He also remarked that he thought BMW did a great job tuning MDM to work with the driver to help the car go faster rather than fighting the driver to keep him/her as safe as possible. Anyway, he had initially said we'd only do a couple laps -- well at the end of his FIFTH lap he caved and asked if he could try it with everything completely off because the car was such a blast. I said sure. As I watched him I noticed that he had a lot more steering inputs than before, but the car was still going to the same places on the track and pointed in the same directions. We ended up staying out for yellow group's entire session because he was just having too much fun.

Well, you probably see where this is going. In the middle of the second day after we'd talked about throttle steering in class, I decided I wanted to try one lap with DSC completely off to experiment. My instructor told me that I should expect to have to apply more countersteering sooner than I had been so far based on what he'd seen while watching me drive and what he'd felt from the computer's intervention. We came into the Rattlesnake (which was really slick everywhere), and he told me to intentionally use less steering than I needed to complete Turn 3 so that I could rotate the car the rest of the way with the throttle. Of course, I got on the throttle a little too hard and didn't do any proactive countersteering (didn't realize you were supposed to do that before the car has even overshot your intended rotation), and wound up with a very fast 180-degree spin. I didn't clutch in soon enough so the car stalled and threw an "Engine malfunction" warning with a limp mode, but having done that once before I figured the code was benign, which I later confirmed with the mechanics there. But I continued in limp mode driving more slowly, and on Turn 14 we tried again. That time I ended up in a 270-degree spin, but I did clutch in soon enough. I didn't go off-track either time (and actually nobody passed me despite two spins in the same lap), but it showed me just how hard the computer had been working to make me look good on corner exits.

All in all I had a great time and I look forward to exploring throttle steering more in the dry as well as new stuff they'll teach in Blue Group! MSR is a great track, but I think I'll revisit TWS next.
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder

Last edited by jphughan; 12-06-2011 at 12:53 PM.
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 04:05 PM   #7
disapr
drop a gear and...
 
Drives: 2010 M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 961
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Sounds like a good time!

Some of the most fun I've had is at MSR Houston in the rain with MDM off. I did a 180 a few laps in but stayed on the track so I just whipped it around and kept going. After that I had a 'feel' for it and was able to just hang the tail out and blast around the track.
__________________
disapr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 04:37 PM   #8
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
I saw your car...I never had a chance to come by. I was too busy f'ing around.

Congrats on making it to blue! I ran the last session with so I could leave a little early. Yeah, I followed the gray vette for 2 laps. For some reason, its hard to get a point by from vette's...maybe its because I'm always catching up to them.

Luckily, I had no spins and had some decent speed. Quite a few slides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
I went this past weekend and it was wet the whole time, raining on and off. But it was an absolute blast, and I even got promoted to blue group!
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 04:42 PM   #9
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by disapr View Post
Sounds like a good time!

Some of the most fun I've had is at MSR Houston in the rain with MDM off. I did a 180 a few laps in but stayed on the track so I just whipped it around and kept going. After that I had a 'feel' for it and was able to just hang the tail out and blast around the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3roar View Post
I love driving in the wet. It is probably the most valuable information you can learn that transitions to daily driving. Learning to recover from a slide in the rain is soo nice to know. You dont have to drive like a moron on public roads to slide either.
I've been thinking about tooling around on Mineral Wells which is like a huge slab of pavement, so I've been told. I drove the skid pad at BMW's Performance Delivery Center, I learned so much about car/slide control by just going around it twice.

I would do an event like this, a skid pad or intense car control event. I think we all could learn a lot. Not to mention safely and consistently learn how to catch slides.

If you're catching a lot of slides on the track it means you aren't going fast.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 04:56 PM   #10
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,014
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I saw your car...I never had a chance to come by. I was too busy f'ing around.

Congrats on making it to blue! I ran the last session with so I could leave a little early. Yeah, I followed the gray vette for 2 laps. For some reason, its hard to get a point by from vette's...maybe its because I'm always catching up to them.

Luckily, I had no spins and had some decent speed. Quite a few slides.
Yeah, there were also two maroon Vettes (driven by maroons! ) that caused up to 8-car trains as well. It was pretty frustrating because the corner workers weren't ever giving flags and even on the rare occasion that they did, the Vettes didn't give point-by. They might not have noticed the corner workers or checked their mirrors, but their instructors still should have been on top of that. The problem with the Vettes was that they had to go super slow through the corners but of course once they got on the straight they wanted to finally open it up rather than stay slow and wait for all the cars behind them to pass. I actually mentioned the passing problem to Rick and he talked to the corner workers and then came up to all the cars next time Green group lined up, and from then on it was much, MUCH better.

Too bad we didn't meet up there, I think I saw you too assuming you had the 330 rather than the MCB M3.
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder

Last edited by jphughan; 12-05-2011 at 05:21 PM.
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 08:58 PM   #11
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
I've seen many vettes leading trains. I was in blue group with the blue 330ci. There was a dark blue 330 sedan in your group...not me.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 12:15 PM   #12
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
I am not going, but I see that TWS is putting on a PDS end of January. I'll be signing up for that one and possibly the PCA event the following week. Hopefully I'll see some of you guys out there.
Change of plans...I signed up for MSRH with the Driver's Edge on 21/22 Jan. So no TWS in Jan.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #13
M3 Adjuster
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 1988 M3 gone .. 1M HERE!!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posts: 3,208
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've been thinking about tooling around on Mineral Wells which is like a huge slab of pavement, so I've been told. I drove the skid pad at BMW's Performance Delivery Center, I learned so much about car/slide control by just going around it twice.

I would do an event like this, a skid pad or intense car control event. I think we all could learn a lot. Not to mention safely and consistently learn how to catch slides.

If you're catching a lot of slides on the track it means you aren't going fast.

Our chapte (and probably Houston as well) has been focusing on doing these events as Street Survival events which are geared towards teen drivers... http://streetsurvival.org/

.. we will try and have an event like this as a Car Control clinic for the older kiddies in 2012. Some chapters of BMW CCA (typically those where the track is in HIGH demand... like VIR for example) make it a pre-requisite that one do a Car Control Clinic prior to a DE..
__________________
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter president, Chief Driving Instructor
M3 Adjuster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 04:06 PM   #14
M3 Adjuster
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 1988 M3 gone .. 1M HERE!!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posts: 3,208
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Yeah, there were also two maroon Vettes (driven by maroons! ) that caused up to 8-car trains as well. It was pretty frustrating because the corner workers weren't ever giving flags and even on the rare occasion that they did, the Vettes didn't give point-by. They might not have noticed the corner workers or checked their mirrors, but their instructors still should have been on top of that. The problem with the Vettes was that they had to go super slow through the corners but of course once they got on the straight they wanted to finally open it up rather than stay slow and wait for all the cars behind them to pass. I actually mentioned the passing problem to Rick and he talked to the corner workers and then came up to all the cars next time Green group lined up, and from then on it was much, MUCH better.

Too bad we didn't meet up there, I think I saw you too assuming you had the 330 rather than the MCB M3.

typical fare for vettes unfortunately..no matter what the conditions..

perhaps the vette drivers were aditionally afraid of being passed Woodlands Style...
__________________
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter president, Chief Driving Instructor
M3 Adjuster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 05:36 PM   #15
TXmtrhed
Second Lieutenant
 
TXmtrhed's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1M
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

Posts: 298
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Our chapte (and probably Houston as well) has been focusing on doing these events as Street Survival events which are geared towards teen drivers... http://streetsurvival.org/

.. we will try and have an event like this as a Car Control clinic for the older kiddies in 2012. Some chapters of BMW CCA (typically those where the track is in HIGH demand... like VIR for example) make it a pre-requisite that one do a Car Control Clinic prior to a DE..
FYI,
The LSRPCA offers a one day clinic, they call it their Performance Driving School. I went last fall in my 335 and had a blast. They are having another clinic this weekend at the Houston Police Academy that I am attending. Even though I've been on the track several times I still feel this will be of benefit to me (different car this time too), besides, it is a lot of fun.

BTW, the Houston BMWCCA canceled their clinic (last weekend?) due to lack of interest.

You don't have to be a member to attend but non PCA members do have to pay extra. Last I looked there was more volunteers and instructors than students for this Saturday so I would expect there to be room for more students. Sign up is through ClubRegistration.net.
TXmtrhed is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #16
ThunderMoose
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

Posts: 951
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Change of plans...I signed up for MSRH with the Driver's Edge on 21/22 Jan. So no TWS in Jan.
You love TDE don't you . Have fun.
ThunderMoose is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-07-2011, 12:33 AM   #17
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,075
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
typical fare for vettes unfortunately..no matter what the conditions..

perhaps the vette drivers were aditionally afraid of being passed Woodlands Style...


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Our chapte (and probably Houston as well) has been focusing on doing these events as Street Survival events which are geared towards teen drivers... http://streetsurvival.org/
Good. I know the Tejas chapter is trying to find a venue to do a car control clinic. Maybe the Houston chapter can work with them? Maybe meet in SATX where SASCA does their auto-x events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
You love TDE don't you . Have fun.
Yeah, trying to make it to the yellow group. I think I would have been good to go this past weekend except it rained. TDE has really raised the standard to move into yellow and they are REALLY anal about spotting all of the flag stations well in advance...a good thing! Actually, they kind of expect you to glance across the track to see other flag stations that might be 3-4 corners ahead.

Then I have to qualify solo for each track.

I think I'm close. I ran half of my runs solo. I didn't miss any flag stations over this past weekend, I'm pretty smooth, and consistently on line. My only problem is I've had the traction control on. I didn't think it would matter because it rarely interferes. Apparently, DSC off is a requirement to go solo.

I'm hoping I can be blue solo at MSRH. Then get into Yellow in their Feb event at MSR Cresson...then I can take a break.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-07-2011, 09:48 PM   #18
ThunderMoose
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

Posts: 951
iTrader: (0)

Good luck!
ThunderMoose is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-08-2011, 04:28 PM   #19
03BeastCharmer
Major
 
03BeastCharmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 03 M5, '13, 88 & 97 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,395
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Our chapte (and probably Houston as well) has been focusing on doing these events as Street Survival events which are geared towards teen drivers... http://streetsurvival.org/

.. we will try and have an event like this as a Car Control clinic for the older kiddies in 2012. Some chapters of BMW CCA (typically those where the track is in HIGH demand... like VIR for example) make it a pre-requisite that one do a Car Control Clinic prior to a DE..
Ya. Houston did 2 Teen Street Survival school in 2011 and have two scheduled for 2012. Unfortunately we did not have much interest for our adult car control events and canceled the one scheduled for last weekend, and don't have one on the books for 2012.

But Car Controls School are great. I did one about 3 years ago.
Attached Images
  
__________________

Current: '13 E92 M3 Euro Delivery 9/4
Wife's: E39 M5, E36 M3, E30 M3
Gone: E86 M Coupe
03BeastCharmer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST