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      11-27-2011, 02:20 PM   #67
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Are you being paid to promote this car?
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      11-27-2011, 02:46 PM   #68
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Of course. Only in driving experience. Let us wait for reviews, I think it could even surpass the M3 E30. To say the truth I waited very long for the BMW Z2, lightweight reardrive sportscar. But till today, there is still no sign of life of it.
I was willing to wait for this car but I find the rear space and the rear look very disappointing:





How in hell can someone get in there!? Not even a japanese...


Without the sat nav I cannot figure out what those many dials are all about on the center console...

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      11-27-2011, 02:55 PM   #69
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Are you being paid to promote this car?
No I am not. I was looking for some fun sports car (can' afford a Ferrari) and just did not want to spend 50.000 € for the 1 Series M Coupé. So I decided on this one.


I know this car does not have alot of space. Now I am young, I am not married, don't need a practical car, I just need to get from point A to B, so this is enough for me. I'll however be able to fit two skinny girls at the back, so it is not a problem.

The day I can get I BMW sedan/coupé, this Toyota will become a track car only. That is why I don't car about looks, but I don't find it lookng bad.


PS: I would still like to have a review from Chris Harris. He knows very well what cars are good: LF-A, 458 Italia, 911 GT3, Cayman, 1 Series M, M3,...

Last edited by Levi; 11-27-2011 at 03:01 PM.
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      11-27-2011, 05:36 PM   #70
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don't like the toyota version. looks kinda bland and interior looks bad. The subaru version on the other hand looks amazing from the pictures i have seen. I hope the subaru version has better interior, but from exterior point of view I like it more.
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      11-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #71
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I'll however be able to fit two skinny girls at the back, so it is not a problem.


I like them more 'meaty'... so, cannot do it with the Subaru.
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      11-27-2011, 07:33 PM   #72
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don't like the toyota version. looks kinda bland and interior looks bad. The subaru version on the other hand looks amazing from the pictures i have seen. I hope the subaru version has better interior, but from exterior point of view I like it more.
Yes! The Subaru concept looks fantastic and the rear lights are so much better looking... but, unfortunately it's only a concept.
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      11-28-2011, 05:05 AM   #73
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Why didn't they keep the concept rear end (without the wing) - White vs Blue?!



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      11-28-2011, 05:50 AM   #74
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There'll be many bodykits available somewhere donw the road. I'll look for some Vorsteiner bodykit if they make one, they look really good. Or maybe 5Axis, the company that build the FR-S Concept.
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      11-28-2011, 08:27 AM   #75
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lol @ 215. Even my GTI has bigger than that stock.
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      11-28-2011, 02:09 PM   #76
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Looks WAAAAYYYY better than the Toyota!
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      11-28-2011, 03:09 PM   #77
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lol @ 215. Even my GTI has bigger than that stock.
Your GTI is likely a good deal heavier (in all the wrong places) too so that is not a fair comparison.

My stock 135i has bigger tires than an Exige or Mono...
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      11-28-2011, 08:13 PM   #78
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Your GTI is likely a good deal heavier (in all the wrong places) too so that is not a fair comparison.

My stock 135i has bigger tires than an Exige or Mono...
I like how you specify (in all the wrong places) so that you make yourself sound so cool.
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      11-28-2011, 09:02 PM   #79
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I like how you specify (in all the wrong places) so that you make yourself sound so cool.
I fail to see how stating that fact would make me look cool. Sorry if that offended you, it was not my intention. I just didn't understand why you thought it was funny that the BRZ had skinnier tires than your GTI.

Fact is, the BRZ is a lightweight car with a very low center of gravity and great weight distribution, all qualities that exceed that of both of our cars and therefore would not need to have more rubber than either of our cars.
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      11-28-2011, 09:24 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
So very true.




You nailed it!

1. The 1 Series M is still too heavy;
2. The Cayman too expensive;
3. Lotus not very practical for daily drive.


The best summarized description yet.

+ 1

After reading these TWO article behind the design process, engineering & consumer goals, and passion driving this project... it really makes me want to get one.

Though I'm a diehard BMW fan, IMHO it's too much of a marketing driven company now to a point where even the M cars are designed by committees instead of enthusiasts. And it bothers me how when I can finally afford an M3, the new M3 will be price of an M5 and the 1M has taken the place of the M3, etc..

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...hief-engineer/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ief-engineer//

I'm impressed because ToyoBaru is not trying to build the next fastest track car at the Nurg. Ring. But simply, a fun, tuneable and affordable sports cars, with great handling and potential for the enthusiast crowd.

Some excerpts:

Give the people what they want
“We visited with car enthusiasts in Japan, America and Europe. The feedback we received was almost always the same. They said there are a lot of sports cars with high horsepower that are very fast, but these are not the sports cars that they want to have. They want small compact cars that are controllable, that they can tune themselves. However, that kind of sports car is not on the market. Therefore, these sports car enthusiasts are forced to continue to use older cars from a long time ago, because there is no new alterative on the market.”

0-60 times are the focus of committees
“We also went to competitors and asked them: “Why do you focus on fast cars?” The response almost always was: ‘Actually, we really don’t want to develop these kinds of cars. But once we bring a plan to develop that car to our board, the first question the directors of the company would ask is: How much faster is that car compared to what the competition has? How many seconds faster around the Nürburgring? What about the acceleration? These questions always come up because numerical performance is the easiest to understand.

No computers.. back to basics
“To make the car customizable, we did away with computers to the highest extent possible. A lot of the cars on the market today are controlled by computers. People have the feeling that they are driven by the car instead of them driving the car. That makes for a boring experience. That is why we decided to go back to the basics of car making. With the low center of gravity, the driver now is in personal touch with the road again.”

Carving a new market segment
“We did know from the very beginning that it was going to be a sports car. I said, well, if it’s going to be a sports car, it has to go fast. We were looking at the Nissan GT-R, the Mitsubishi Evolution, those cars were in our heads at the original stage.

Then we thought: Should we make a car that is faster than the GT-R?

You know what we did then? We did a lot of research. We talked to owners, fanatics, real buyers of sports cars around the world. They told us: Speed isn’t everything. If it’s just an incredibly fast car, they don’t really want it. What they want is a sports car that is small, compact, light, and that handles just the way they want it to handle.”

The customers wanted more: They wanted a sports car for less. A Veyron makes for good copy and dreams. But it also causes can’t-have-it frustrations. Tada listened intently to his future customers:

“The super-super-super fast cars are only for the super-rich. Even most super-rich don’t want to buy them. The people I talked to were looking for something like the 80s kind of a sports car, echoes of an AE86. They wanted a stripped-down, basic sports car with the price more like that of a piece of sports equipment, not the price of a house. Those people wanted something that doesn’t exist.”

Recognizing tuners needs
“It is possible to soup-up sedans or hatchbacks to make them sporty. But what these people are after is a body that is already very low to the ground, very sleek, a body that they can then work on – if they want.”

Don't worry.. this is not a camry/corolla - New Design Process
“There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars.

This is a car designed by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.
It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.”


Cool anecdotes:
- CEO Akio Toyoda, a car enthusiast himself was an active Test Driver (pushing his engineering team) and convinced his board to approve building the 86 even though it's not sales number driven.

- Toyota's advertising department did not like it.

- Lowest center of gravity of any production car.
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      11-28-2011, 09:36 PM   #81
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It's cool..going in the right direction, 2 door and light.

Power seems a bit anemic but hey..that's what modding is for. The platform is the most important thing.
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      11-28-2011, 10:51 PM   #82
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The Subaru version... I wish it could have been more like the STI concept, not bad still:



Last edited by GoingTooFast; 11-29-2011 at 06:36 AM.
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      11-28-2011, 11:05 PM   #83
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so is the subaru version not turbo either?
Or is there going to be a STI version or something. The car looks fantastic, don't get me wrong, but it looks exactly like the toyota version. Where is the huge wing, quad exhaust, etc from the concept.

I guess my biggest question is what is the difference between the toyota one and the subaru. They have same engine, same body... but I doubt they will have the same price?
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      11-29-2011, 01:02 AM   #84
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can't wait to see one of these in person
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      11-29-2011, 06:44 AM   #85
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Quote:
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so is the subaru version not turbo either?
Or is there going to be a STI version or something. The car looks fantastic, don't get me wrong, but it looks exactly like the toyota version. Where is the huge wing, quad exhaust, etc from the concept.
The Subaru looks better IMO. It's a 'cleaner' and more sober design... but the rear end is basically the same (albeit better) and that's what I don't dig.

Non STI version as for now... you'll have to wait for that.
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      11-29-2011, 08:44 AM   #86
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The BRZ's side vent/gill looks better than the one on the new F10 M5.

Yeah, I said it...
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      11-29-2011, 10:04 AM   #87
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The BRZ's side vent/gill looks better than the one on the new F10 M5.

Yeah, I said it...
Doesn't that also imply that they look better than the Ford Taurus SHO side vents?
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      11-29-2011, 11:25 AM   #88
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Doesn't that also imply that they look better than the Ford Taurus SHO side vents?
Exactly!
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