BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wheels + Tires Sponsored by The Tire Rack
  TireRack

KEEP M3POST ALIVE BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER LINK!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-15-2011, 06:19 PM   #1
Powerslide
Captain
 
Drives: '15 AY M3 (sold 2008 E93 M3)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago Illinois USA

Posts: 726
iTrader: (0)

If 18\" handles better than 19\" - why 19\'s on ZCP?

I\'ve seen lots of posts over the years on this forum where many people say, all else being equal, the 18\" will handle better than the 19\" wheels (presumably due to less unsprung/rotational inertia, etc. Etc.)

If that is the case, why does the competition/ZCP package use 19\" instead of 18\"? Is it because the difference of performance in favor of the 18\'s so slight that the greater popularity of the 19\'s outweighed this alleged performance advantage?
Powerslide is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:23 PM   #2
quads
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I\'ve seen lots of posts over the years on this forum where many people say, all else being equal, the 18\" will handle better than the 19\" wheels (presumably due to less unsprung/rotational inertia, etc. Etc.)

If that is the case, why does the competition/ZCP package use 19\" instead of 18\"? Is it because the difference of performance in favor of the 18\'s so slight that the greater popularity of the 19\'s outweighed this alleged performance advantage?
Because 18's are not better in all cases.
quads is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:24 PM   #3
Nine
Banned
 
Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

Posts: 1,925
iTrader: (2)

It's about the width
Nine is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:28 PM   #4
quads
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
It's about the width
Yep.

As well as sidewall flex. 18's are so comfortable compared to 19's but I hate the bounce and the shimmies when I toss the car around.
quads is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #5
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I\'ve seen lots of posts over the years on this forum where many people say, all else being equal, the 18\" will handle better than the 19\" wheels (presumably due to less unsprung/rotational inertia, etc. Etc.)

If that is the case, why does the competition/ZCP package use 19\" instead of 18\"? Is it because the difference of performance in favor of the 18\'s so slight that the greater popularity of the 19\'s outweighed this alleged performance advantage?
Because 19" looks better.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:56 PM   #6
MienAce
gotAWD?
 
Drives: E85EvoIX
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hell

Posts: 55
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
Yep.

As well as sidewall flex. 18's are so comfortable compared to 19's but I hate the bounce and the shimmies when I toss the car around.
comfortable and handling dont go togather, u cant have both.
__________________
CornFedEvo
MienAce is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:59 PM   #7
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MienAce View Post
comfortable and handling dont go togather, u cant have both.
That's not a true statement in all cases.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 07:05 PM   #8
quads
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
That's not a true statement in all cases.
Perhaps but it's a spectrum.

The following is true as principles
1) as you push for more performance in general you sacrifice comfort

2) as you push for more comfort in general you sacrifice performance
quads is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 07:11 PM   #9
aus
Major General
 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 7,344
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Because 19" looks better.
That's why. Because most people who buy M3's now only care about the looks, and the badge.
Then they come here complaining about how it feels slow and there's not torque.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 07:14 PM   #10
quads
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
That's why. Because most people who buy M3's now only care about the looks, and the badge.
Then they come here complaining about how it feels slow and there's not torque.
I agree with this statement, however I have to say I turned better times at road atlanta on the same day switching from 18's to 19's in back to back sessions.

apex arc-8 18x10's with
275/35/18 PSS
285/35/18 PSS

and
stock zcp
275/30/19 PSS
295/30/19 PSS

stock zcp suspension (full stiff)
-1.9 front camber
-1.5 rear camber
quads is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 07:38 PM   #11
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
 
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (0)

ZCP comes with 295 Rear!? WTF is Mercedes thinking putting 255's on the C63!?

Why do people put a "/" instead of a ' when they are trying to type out words like "don't"?
-=Hot|Ice=- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 07:42 PM   #12
09E92M34ME
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VIRGINIA

Posts: 864
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
ZCP comes with 295 Rear!? WTF is Mercedes thinking putting 255's on the C63!?

Why do people put a "/" instead of a ' when they are trying to type out words like "don't"?
No, ZCP comes with a 265 rear, same as non ZCP
__________________
09 E92 M3,AW/FR. MODS:Performane Kidney Grills,Side Gills,Exhaust Tips,BMW Performance Pedals,359 Satin Black GTS Wheels,275/35/19R & 255/35/19F PSS's,Dinan Stage I Suspension,Macht Schnell Spacers 12mmF,5mmR,Rear Fogs,Euphoria 6k,LCI Tails,LUX v3,OEM IND Painted Alpine White CF Performance Spoiler, Front Splitters, and Front Reflectors,Gloss Black Hood Vents,M Performance Steering Wheel.
09E92M34ME is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 08:32 PM   #13
kmarei
Major General
 
kmarei's Avatar
 
Drives: 1988 E30 M3 Evo II
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Reston, VA

Posts: 6,480
iTrader: (33)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I\'ve seen lots of posts over the years on this forum where many people say, all else being equal, the 18\" will handle better than the 19\" wheels (presumably due to less unsprung/rotational inertia, etc. Etc.)

If that is the case, why does the competition/ZCP package use 19\" instead of 18\"? Is it because the difference of performance in favor of the 18\'s so slight that the greater popularity of the 19\'s outweighed this alleged performance advantage?
Because bigger is better in most buyers eyes
So 19 is better than 18
and I'm sure the next M3 will come standard with 19
With 20s as an option

I've had both
And on my 2012, I ordered ZCP
but I'm selling my ZCP wheels
And I'm using Apex Arc 8s for summer in 18"
and VMR 710 in 18" for winter
No more 19s
They look great
But my M3 was much more fun to drive on 18s than it is on 19s
And most of the interior rattles started after I installed the 19s
__________________
This user has been banned from the 4 series forum because he doesn't sing its merits like the admins want us all to

kmarei is offline   Egypt
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:00 PM   #14
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,822
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Because bigger is better in most buyers eyes
So 19 is better than 18
and I'm sure the next M3 will come standard with 19
With 20s as an option

I've had both
And on my 2012, I ordered ZCP
but I'm selling my ZCP wheels
And I'm using Apex Arc 8s for summer in 18"
and VMR 710 in 18" for winter
No more 19s
They look great
But my M3 was much more fun to drive on 18s than it is on 19s
And most of the interior rattles started after I installed the 19s
If you decide to sell your ZCP wheels, let me know when
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:11 PM   #15
kmarei
Major General
 
kmarei's Avatar
 
Drives: 1988 E30 M3 Evo II
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Reston, VA

Posts: 6,480
iTrader: (33)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
If you decide to sell your ZCP wheels, let me know when
They are for sale
But shipping will add at least $200
Can't find anyone local?
__________________
This user has been banned from the 4 series forum because he doesn't sing its merits like the admins want us all to

kmarei is offline   Egypt
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:14 PM   #16
quads
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: bac mono
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: racetrack

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
If you decide to sell your ZCP wheels, let me know when
I'm in Atlanta. Mines up for sale when I find my te37sl's (19's )
quads is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:59 PM   #17
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
That's why. Because most people who buy M3's now only care about the looks, and the badge.
Then they come here complaining about how it feels slow and there's not torque.
And it will only get worse. F3x M3/4 will have even more DD/looks stuff than performance stuff on it...
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 10:01 PM   #18
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
I bet you say that to all the ladies.
Actually no. First of all, I have a MINI Cooper now, so girls don't approach me Second, if they approach, and if I tell them how tires and wheels work etc, they'll run away
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 10:02 PM   #19
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
Perhaps but it's a spectrum.

The following is true as principles
1) as you push for more performance in general you sacrifice comfort

2) as you push for more comfort in general you sacrifice performance
That's right. But un-even surface changes that all. Too stiff = tires will loose contact with the road. Also, I think wet conditions require a little softer settings, since you want the weight transfer to be as smooth as possible.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 10:10 PM   #20
eisenb11
Major
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3 SSII
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Redondo Beach, CA, USA

Posts: 1,122
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09E92M34ME View Post
No, ZCP comes with a 265 rear, same as non ZCP
True, but confusing to some readers. For clarification to newbies. ZCP wheels are wider, however they use the same stock tire as non-ZCP (stretching them out).
eisenb11 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 11:07 AM   #21
Twinbo
First Lieutenant
 
Twinbo's Avatar
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary

Posts: 359
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Because 19" looks better.
+1.
Twinbo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 11:13 AM   #22
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,100
iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sevens.com View Post
I agree with this statement, however I have to say I turned better times at road atlanta on the same day switching from 18's to 19's in back to back sessions.

apex arc-8 18x10's with
275/35/18 PSS
285/35/18 PSS

and
stock zcp
275/30/19 PSS
295/30/19 PSS

stock zcp suspension (full stiff)
-1.9 front camber
-1.5 rear camber
Even though that may be true, it may have nothing to do with wheel size and more to do about wheel weight and tire width.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST