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      11-15-2011, 02:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Why do you wanna know? You clearly don't like modding, in fact, pretty much every post you place is questioning either power gains, or any real benefit of *any* mod out there - be it exhausts, intakes, etc... It feels like you have to reassure yourself that you shouldn't spend any money on it. Just don't be too angry about it... it's not good for you. Modding is not for you, so just move on, dude.
very well said
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      11-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #24
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modding with things that actually gain power is fine by me. Mods that do not making any power such as dinan parts and almost all tunes IMO are not worth it. Does not answer though besides looking nice (and similar to OEM) how do these headers improve on the OEM
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      11-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #25
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^How do tunes not make power? I have several videos of my full bolt on tune m3 annihilating a stock M3 so obviously the parts are doing something right.
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      11-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #26
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at the stock level, if those headers put out at least a 35hp increase, then it should be worth the price....assuming its not too stratospherical. Anyone with a super charger would benefit greatly from a mod like this
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      11-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #27
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supposedly 27whp gain on initial dyno
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      11-15-2011, 03:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
supposedly 27whp gain on initial dyno
Nice gains from headers alone. Where have you heard these numbers?
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      11-15-2011, 05:25 PM   #29
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check out the thread on [Admin Notified] IND chimed in on the gains
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      11-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #30
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From Daniel@M24-

"The OEM headers work but ours are optimized primary to get the temperature down (from 950 degrees to about 850 degrees). This is an important step against the S65 temperature problems."

"We have the headers available for street and race cars. The headers
get the exhaust gas temperature about 100 C lower. First tests on the
dyno showed 27 PS and 22 Nm more with the headers."

http://www.motorsport24.de/blog/bmw-...-im-onlineshop
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      11-15-2011, 05:43 PM   #31
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      11-15-2011, 06:52 PM   #32
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if you thermal coat factory headers, would that show any gain?
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      11-15-2011, 09:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
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DANG... wow... wish i had the cash...
Didn't you sell the XPipe..
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      11-15-2011, 09:54 PM   #34
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Price please!
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      11-15-2011, 09:55 PM   #35
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Ilia, Nate, it's almost Christmas, do I need to have my Wife call you on these?

Any additional tuning needed to work with the VT-1?
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      11-15-2011, 10:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
From Daniel@M24-

"The OEM headers work but ours are optimized primary to get the temperature down (from 950 degrees to about 850 degrees). This is an important step against the S65 temperature problems."

"We have the headers available for street and race cars. The headers
get the exhaust gas temperature about 100 C lower. First tests on the
dyno showed 27 PS and 22 Nm more with the headers."

http://www.motorsport24.de/blog/bmw-...-im-onlineshop
Nate, not for nothing but I always thought, when it comes to headers, or exhaust for that matter, hot is better. Why do you think people thermal wrap those bad boys...to keep the heat in and away from the engine compartment which optimizes the flow; no?
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      11-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #37
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^ I am quite sure the EGT's are lower due to increased flow...... With headers the reason for wrapping is mainly to prevent underhood damage from the heat due to the thin walls of the tubular headers.

As for the lower EGT's meaning the flow is less that is not entirely true. I think the EGT reduction is most likely measured very close to the exhaust port, in the first few inches of the primary. If EGT's are high the exhaust valves retain most of that heat because the back pressure in the primary is not allowing the exhaust gases to escape as quickly as possible. The 100 degree drop in EGT's means the exhaust valves will be quite a bit cooler ( maybe not the full 100 degrees but still quite a bit less) hence less detonation (the exhaust valve is the hottest part of the combustion chamber) so the DME/ECM will add more timing which is where a lot of the power comes from with these headers.

Since the S65 is always pulling timing on anything but race fuel, any measure that can be taken to lower combustion chamber temps will equal power on pump gas.

P.S.: Has anyone seen how hot an exhaust manifold gets when a catalyst melts down and restricts exhaust flow??? Sometimes the entire exhaust from the cat all the way back to the head will glow blood red
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Last edited by BMRLVR; 11-16-2011 at 01:39 AM.
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      11-16-2011, 12:36 AM   #38
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these headers are so sick.. and if gains are true you could make the fastest NA M3.
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      11-16-2011, 06:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
^ I am quite sure the EGT's are lower due to increased flow...... With headers the reason for wrapping is mainly to prevent underhood damage from the heat due to the thin walls of the tubular headers.

As for the lower EGT's meaning the flow is less that is not entirely true. I think the EGT reduction is most likely measured very close to the exhaust port, in the first few inches of the primary. If EGT's are high the exhaust valves retain most of that heat because the back pressure in the primary is not allowing the exhaust gases to escape as quickly as possible. The 100 degree drop in EGT's means the exhaust valves will be quite a bit cooler ( maybe not the full 100 degrees but still quite a bit less) hence less detonation (the exhaust valve is the hottest part of the combustion chamber) so the DME/ECM will add more timing which is where a lot of the power comes from with these headers.

Since the S65 is always pulling timing on anything but race fuel, any measure that can be taken to lower combustion chamber temps will equal power on pump gas.

P.S.: Has anyone seen how hot an exhaust manifold gets when a catalyst melts down and restricts exhaust flow??? Sometimes the entire exhaust from the cat all the way back to the head will glow blood red
Everything you say makes a whole lot of sense. However, header wrapping is not only to reduce underhood temps. The reason for wrapping, as I always understood it (other than a lucrative record deal ) was:
1) Keep the heat in because hot exhaust gas moves faster thus creating a better exhaust system.
2) Maintain a constant temperature at exhaust ports because temperature fluctuation kills exhaust valves.
3) Underhood temp reduction.
4) Create a wonderful itching sensation in the hands for about 2 days after installation from the fiberglass
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      11-16-2011, 10:28 AM   #40
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What is the "race version" that is mentioned on the first post? Long tube headers?
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      11-16-2011, 11:29 AM   #41
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The race version does not have a flange that mates with the OE or normal aftermarket exhaust systems, which allows for slightly larger piping after the collector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS View Post
Ilia, Nate, it's almost Christmas, do I need to have my Wife call you on these?

Any additional tuning needed to work with the VT-1?
That's correct, right in time for the holidays! I wonder if M24 planned their release based on that...

You will not need additional tuning to use the headers, but I am sure if ESS spent enough time with a header-equipped car on a dyno they could pull some extra power with a dedicated tune.
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      11-16-2011, 11:54 AM   #42
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what kind of pricing range we looking at for these? $5,000K plus or less?
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      11-16-2011, 11:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
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what kind of pricing range we looking at for these? $5,000K plus or less?
We are working on keeping the pricing 4k or under.
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      11-16-2011, 12:16 PM   #44
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How much louder would you anticipate a full catless exhaust with this being? It dont want the car sounding out of hand lol
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