BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Lux Angel Eyes
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-15-2011, 02:21 PM   #23
erm324
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Why do you wanna know? You clearly don't like modding, in fact, pretty much every post you place is questioning either power gains, or any real benefit of *any* mod out there - be it exhausts, intakes, etc... It feels like you have to reassure yourself that you shouldn't spend any money on it. Just don't be too angry about it... it's not good for you. Modding is not for you, so just move on, dude.
very well said
erm324 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #24
Ateam
Banned
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA

Posts: 1,109
iTrader: (0)

modding with things that actually gain power is fine by me. Mods that do not making any power such as dinan parts and almost all tunes IMO are not worth it. Does not answer though besides looking nice (and similar to OEM) how do these headers improve on the OEM
Ateam is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #25
erm324
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (1)

^How do tunes not make power? I have several videos of my full bolt on tune m3 annihilating a stock M3 so obviously the parts are doing something right.
erm324 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #26
SROC3
The limit of adhesion is my home.
 
SROC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3 JTBLK ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: three.one.zero

Posts: 1,385
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to SROC3
at the stock level, if those headers put out at least a 35hp increase, then it should be worth the price....assuming its not too stratospherical. Anyone with a super charger would benefit greatly from a mod like this
__________________
2012 M3 E92 Jet Black
Black Leather/DCT | ZCP |
(Buy date 11/27/11) 2012 M3 E92 Jet Black
Red Extended Leather/6MT | Comp Package - RETIRED
(Impulse Buy Date - 11/22/06) 335i E92/Space Grey/ Red Leather/6MT - RETIRED
SROC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #27
erm324
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (1)

supposedly 27whp gain on initial dyno
erm324 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 03:36 PM   #28
flipm3
E46 + E90
 
Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

Posts: 2,771
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
supposedly 27whp gain on initial dyno
Nice gains from headers alone. Where have you heard these numbers?
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
flipm3 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 05:25 PM   #29
erm324
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (1)

check out the thread on [Admin Notified] IND chimed in on the gains
erm324 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #30
Nate@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Nate@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 10,110
iTrader: (19)

From Daniel@M24-

"The OEM headers work but ours are optimized primary to get the temperature down (from 950 degrees to about 850 degrees). This is an important step against the S65 temperature problems."

"We have the headers available for street and race cars. The headers
get the exhaust gas temperature about 100 C lower. First tests on the
dyno showed 27 PS and 22 Nm more with the headers."

http://www.motorsport24.de/blog/bmw-...-im-onlineshop
__________________
Nate@IND is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 05:43 PM   #31
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,030
iTrader: (42)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Pretty!
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 06:52 PM   #32
hl0m4n
Brigadier General
 
hl0m4n's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY

Posts: 4,838
iTrader: (41)

if you thermal coat factory headers, would that show any gain?
__________________
Cars: 07 335i ► 09 328i ► 11 328xi ► 13 M3
Reviews: 335i Supersprint Exhaust, C/F Trim Wrap, Alcantara Boots, VMR V710, Saikou Michi OCC, Royal Steering Wheel
For Sale:
Want To Buy:
hl0m4n is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:46 PM   #33
Dave07997S
Colonel
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA

Posts: 2,407
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean05 View Post
DANG... wow... wish i had the cash...
Didn't you sell the XPipe..
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, AFE Stg2. with C/F elbow
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Dave07997S is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:54 PM   #34
Mahmood07
Captain
 
Mahmood07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston->San Diego->Bahrain

Posts: 808
iTrader: (0)

Price please!
__________________
///M3 Mods: | Eisenmann Race Exhaust | Primary Cats Delete (TTP) | ESS Tune | 19" Advan RS | Eibach Springs | MS Air Filter | BMW Perf. Spoiler | BMW Perf. Splitters | Euro LCI Tail lights | Angel iBright v.3.0 | 20% Tint | Matte black Kidney Grills | CF Side Gills | Painted Reflectors | Black M3 emblem
Mahmood07 is offline   Bahrain
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 09:55 PM   #35
CBS
Major
 
CBS's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 - F10 535xi
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA

Posts: 1,079
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 535xi M Sport  [0.00]
2014 X3 3.5 M Sport  [0.00]
2011 M3 E90  [4.86]
2008 X5  [0.00]
Ilia, Nate, it's almost Christmas, do I need to have my Wife call you on these?

Any additional tuning needed to work with the VT-1?
__________________

ESS VT-1 550 | M24 Oil Cooler | Fall Line Half Cage | RaceTech 4009W | 6 pt Harness | Lifeline Zero 360 Fire Suppression | Rear Seat Delete | Motion Control DA Dampers w/remote reservoirs | 900/650 Hyperco Springs | RD Sport Sway Bars | Brembo 380 BBK | GC Camber Plates | Hoosier R6 | Eisenmann Sport | Stack Gauges | Painted Challenge Front Lip | Painted ZCP Rear Spoiler | Xpel Ultimate Film | LuxAngelEyes
CBS is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 10:00 PM   #36
Kyoshi71
Colonel
 
Kyoshi71's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

Posts: 2,528
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
From Daniel@M24-

"The OEM headers work but ours are optimized primary to get the temperature down (from 950 degrees to about 850 degrees). This is an important step against the S65 temperature problems."

"We have the headers available for street and race cars. The headers
get the exhaust gas temperature about 100 C lower. First tests on the
dyno showed 27 PS and 22 Nm more with the headers."

http://www.motorsport24.de/blog/bmw-...-im-onlineshop
Nate, not for nothing but I always thought, when it comes to headers, or exhaust for that matter, hot is better. Why do you think people thermal wrap those bad boys...to keep the heat in and away from the engine compartment which optimizes the flow; no?
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Kyoshi71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #37
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,300
iTrader: (3)

^ I am quite sure the EGT's are lower due to increased flow...... With headers the reason for wrapping is mainly to prevent underhood damage from the heat due to the thin walls of the tubular headers.

As for the lower EGT's meaning the flow is less that is not entirely true. I think the EGT reduction is most likely measured very close to the exhaust port, in the first few inches of the primary. If EGT's are high the exhaust valves retain most of that heat because the back pressure in the primary is not allowing the exhaust gases to escape as quickly as possible. The 100 degree drop in EGT's means the exhaust valves will be quite a bit cooler ( maybe not the full 100 degrees but still quite a bit less) hence less detonation (the exhaust valve is the hottest part of the combustion chamber) so the DME/ECM will add more timing which is where a lot of the power comes from with these headers.

Since the S65 is always pulling timing on anything but race fuel, any measure that can be taken to lower combustion chamber temps will equal power on pump gas.

P.S.: Has anyone seen how hot an exhaust manifold gets when a catalyst melts down and restricts exhaust flow??? Sometimes the entire exhaust from the cat all the way back to the head will glow blood red
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 11-16-2011 at 01:39 AM.
BMRLVR is online now   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 12:36 AM   #38
J-boogey
Major
 
J-boogey's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335xi Msport
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oceanside, New York

Posts: 1,302
iTrader: (2)

these headers are so sick.. and if gains are true you could make the fastest NA M3.
__________________
2013 F30 335i xdrive | Estoril Blue | Black Dakota Leather | Aluminum Hexagon trim | M-Sport | Cold weather | DHP | Premium package | Tech package | Harmon Kardon | PDC | Rearview Cam | IND Painted reflectors | BMW performance grills | JB4 stage 2 | ER downpipe | BMS Intake | H&R sport springs
J-boogey is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 06:01 AM   #39
Kyoshi71
Colonel
 
Kyoshi71's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

Posts: 2,528
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
^ I am quite sure the EGT's are lower due to increased flow...... With headers the reason for wrapping is mainly to prevent underhood damage from the heat due to the thin walls of the tubular headers.

As for the lower EGT's meaning the flow is less that is not entirely true. I think the EGT reduction is most likely measured very close to the exhaust port, in the first few inches of the primary. If EGT's are high the exhaust valves retain most of that heat because the back pressure in the primary is not allowing the exhaust gases to escape as quickly as possible. The 100 degree drop in EGT's means the exhaust valves will be quite a bit cooler ( maybe not the full 100 degrees but still quite a bit less) hence less detonation (the exhaust valve is the hottest part of the combustion chamber) so the DME/ECM will add more timing which is where a lot of the power comes from with these headers.

Since the S65 is always pulling timing on anything but race fuel, any measure that can be taken to lower combustion chamber temps will equal power on pump gas.

P.S.: Has anyone seen how hot an exhaust manifold gets when a catalyst melts down and restricts exhaust flow??? Sometimes the entire exhaust from the cat all the way back to the head will glow blood red
Everything you say makes a whole lot of sense. However, header wrapping is not only to reduce underhood temps. The reason for wrapping, as I always understood it (other than a lucrative record deal ) was:
1) Keep the heat in because hot exhaust gas moves faster thus creating a better exhaust system.
2) Maintain a constant temperature at exhaust ports because temperature fluctuation kills exhaust valves.
3) Underhood temp reduction.
4) Create a wonderful itching sensation in the hands for about 2 days after installation from the fiberglass
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Kyoshi71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 10:28 AM   #40
Space Ghost
Captain
 
Space Ghost's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA-PA

Posts: 625
iTrader: (5)

What is the "race version" that is mentioned on the first post? Long tube headers?
__________________

2008 E92 M3, ESS VT-1, AA Full Exhaust, Volk TE-37, PSS10, ST BBK, ARKYM Motorsport Spliter, Vorsteiner Diffuser, BMW Edition Grill/Gill's, BMW Performance Spoiler, AUTOcoture Blacked Out Headlights, LCI Tail lights, Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber Center Dash Insert, Ultimate Racing Pedals (Because Race Car), AA SSK, Speed Cloth.
Space Ghost is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 11:29 AM   #41
Ilia@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Ilia@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 2,150
iTrader: (3)

The race version does not have a flange that mates with the OE or normal aftermarket exhaust systems, which allows for slightly larger piping after the collector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS View Post
Ilia, Nate, it's almost Christmas, do I need to have my Wife call you on these?

Any additional tuning needed to work with the VT-1?
That's correct, right in time for the holidays! I wonder if M24 planned their release based on that...

You will not need additional tuning to use the headers, but I am sure if ESS spent enough time with a header-equipped car on a dyno they could pull some extra power with a dedicated tune.
__________________
Ilia@IND is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 11:54 AM   #42
SROC3
The limit of adhesion is my home.
 
SROC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3 JTBLK ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: three.one.zero

Posts: 1,385
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to SROC3
what kind of pricing range we looking at for these? $5,000K plus or less?
__________________
2012 M3 E92 Jet Black
Black Leather/DCT | ZCP |
(Buy date 11/27/11) 2012 M3 E92 Jet Black
Red Extended Leather/6MT | Comp Package - RETIRED
(Impulse Buy Date - 11/22/06) 335i E92/Space Grey/ Red Leather/6MT - RETIRED
SROC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 11:57 AM   #43
Nate@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Nate@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 10,110
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
what kind of pricing range we looking at for these? $5,000K plus or less?
We are working on keeping the pricing 4k or under.
__________________
Nate@IND is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-16-2011, 12:16 PM   #44
erm324
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (1)

How much louder would you anticipate a full catless exhaust with this being? It dont want the car sounding out of hand lol
erm324 is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST