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      11-14-2011, 04:59 PM   #89
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update from anyone that has bought one?
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      11-14-2011, 05:13 PM   #90
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wow that's a great fcking deal.
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      11-14-2011, 06:15 PM   #91
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I have not heard good things about Top Speed exhaust products from my 350Z days so I don't have high hopes for this.

It's a shame because $1500+ for an x-pipe is ridiculous.
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      11-14-2011, 06:23 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this based on a few quick observations you may have overlooked.


Brand X EBAY part:
- either really bad stacked tig welds or mig welds polished?
- unsupported brackets at the x section, with very little welded suface area or triangulation. High chance of cracking or bending
- misaligned piping at welded joint



- x mount tabs are uneven and or bent uneven by large margin





Challenge X pipe:

-precision hand tig welded x section
-laser cut and formed mount brackets with triangulation and larger welding surface area
- no break in piping, continuous.




We put in alot of time to make sure we coulde make a quality product in the USA and design brackets and components that will stand the test of time on the street or track without missing a beat. I hope this highlighted a few small things at a glance.
I understand where you are coming from and that is a great product, however can you truely justify a $1000 price difference? I certainly can not . Expecially when it's under my car and no one even see's it.
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      11-14-2011, 06:47 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antilag View Post
I understand where you are coming from and that is a great product, however can you truely justify a $1000 price difference? I certainly can not . Expecially when it's under my car and no one even see's it.
You may not see it under the car, but knowing that itll be safely secured to the car for the long haul and well, even out of the box, (see terrible welds and mis-bent brackets) has its benefits amongst the many others hat surround quality materials and workmanship
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      11-14-2011, 08:34 PM   #94
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I bought one and it arrived last week. I think it looks awesome though the welds do not look as perfect as those on the Challenge x-pipe. I will know more when I test fit it, but this is really a very, very simple exhaust in the typical V8 style with mostly long straight piping, so I do not expect any problems and any that do arise should be easy to fix. I am a bang-for-the-buck person so I do not have a "more powerful sounding" rear exhaust that sounds great but adds little to no power, which means I will be adding resonators to the x-pipe. I bought Vibrant resonators that have not yet arrived. When I cut the x-pipe to fit them, I will be able to massage any fitment issues and also inspect the guts of the x section of the x-pipe and clean up any rough internal areas with a die grinder.

I am going slowly, so I do not have an x-pipe tune yet and will probably not race off to the dyno. I am waiting for the Vishnu meth tune, since I think these cars are octane and IAT sensitive and having the equivalent of race gas with colder IAT year round should really help power. I think the meth tune will help many people break the 400 rwhp barrier that only a very few have broken thus far in naturally aspirated stock displacement form.
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      11-15-2011, 03:43 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antilag View Post
I understand where you are coming from and that is a great product, however can you truely justify a $1000 price difference? I certainly can not . Expecially when it's under my car and no one even see's it.
i had the same thoughts as you before, and after a whole lot of troubles being brought to me... quality products are quality products and there's really a difference. i had a custom exhaust system on my car that lasted 2 months before it starts to leak, start to loosen, start to notice that power gain is significantly bad... cost was not cheap too!

how about comparing the steaks from different restaurants? you are eating steaks that they actually come off the same grade of beef in raw. why are people paying more and the others are paying less budget-wise? however, only one type of by-product will come out in both cases... tubes can break, welds can crack, exhaust flow can be distorted, fitments can be wrong... there are costs on r&d, marketing, mass production...
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      11-15-2011, 07:28 AM   #96
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Maybe, maybe not. The sellers of the expensive exhausts will of course be dumping on the cheap competition. Vishnu took a stock x-pipe and spend $100 on muffler shop crush bends to replace the cats and made great power, dyno tested. There should be a better quality control on the more expensive exhausts and there probably is. Whether it is necessary or not depends.

I ran ebay replica Supersprint headers for 2-3 years on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. I ran an ebay replica Supersprint rear exhaust for a year on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. After personally inspecting this ebay x-pipe from top to bottom, I am very impressed and have no immediate concerns about quality. I'll know more when I test fit it and when I cut it for the resonators. I want to see inside the x-section.

For those who need the name brand because they feel they have an expensive car that deserves only the best, there are already plenty of options. Give us low buck bang for the buck guys a break while we pursue our options. The guys who spend 3 times as much money may well get 2-3% more power and I think they should get a little more for their money. To me, the return on investment is poor.
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      11-15-2011, 09:04 AM   #97
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I agree. I had cheap eBay headers on my e46 m3 for 2 years with 0 issues. Fit great as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Maybe, maybe not. The sellers of the expensive exhausts will of course be dumping on the cheap competition. Vishnu took a stock x-pipe and spend $100 on muffler shop crush bends to replace the cats and made great power, dyno tested. There should be a better quality control on the more expensive exhausts and there probably is. Whether it is necessary or not depends.

I ran ebay replica Supersprint headers for 2-3 years on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. I ran an ebay replica Supersprint rear exhaust for a year on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. After personally inspecting this ebay x-pipe from top to bottom, I am very impressed and have no immediate concerns about quality. I'll know more when I test fit it and when I cut it for the resonators. I want to see inside the x-section.

For those who need the name brand because they feel they have an expensive car that deserves only the best, there are already plenty of options. Give us low buck bang for the buck guys a break while we pursue our options. The guys who spend 3 times as much money may well get 2-3% more power and I think they should get a little more for their money. To me, the return on investment is poor.
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      11-15-2011, 09:53 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Maybe, maybe not. The sellers of the expensive exhausts will of course be dumping on the cheap competition. Vishnu took a stock x-pipe and spend $100 on muffler shop crush bends to replace the cats and made great power, dyno tested. There should be a better quality control on the more expensive exhausts and there probably is. Whether it is necessary or not depends.

I ran ebay replica Supersprint headers for 2-3 years on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. I ran an ebay replica Supersprint rear exhaust for a year on my supercharged E36M3 and had no issues. After personally inspecting this ebay x-pipe from top to bottom, I am very impressed and have no immediate concerns about quality. I'll know more when I test fit it and when I cut it for the resonators. I want to see inside the x-section.

For those who need the name brand because they feel they have an expensive car that deserves only the best, there are already plenty of options. Give us low buck bang for the buck guys a break while we pursue our options. The guys who spend 3 times as much money may well get 2-3% more power and I think they should get a little more for their money. To me, the return on investment is poor.
I find it interesting that you criticize the prices of the original products and support knock-off products that rip-off the design of quality companies. I mean to each their own, but those selling exact replicas are thieves in my eyes.
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      11-15-2011, 11:26 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
I find it interesting that you criticize the prices of the original products and support knock-off products that rip-off the design of quality companies. I mean to each their own, but those selling exact replicas are thieves in my eyes.

I have looked at pictures of all the available x-pipes and none are identical and I also don't think I have seen any one for which this is an exact replica. Can you point out the one that was copied for us?

You may well be right -- I doubt the seller of the ebay x-pipe did much R&D. On the other hand, designing a midpipe for a V8 is not rocket science (look in a Summit or Jegs catalog) and all the available x-pipes are pretty similar, with minor differences such as resonators or converters or none and different locations for the x section. Did all the available x-pipe makers rip off the designs from one another?
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      11-15-2011, 12:35 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
I find it interesting that you criticize the prices of the original products and support knock-off products that rip-off the design of quality companies. I mean to each their own, but those selling exact replicas are thieves in my eyes.

Replica? hmmmm isnt every single one is a replica? plus its an xpipe.... i dont know how they can replicate it... its just an xpipe.... there is nothing much to change on an xpipe really..... some will change a tad bit of the design and call it...its the best and will make x amount of HP... LOL

if i gut a OEM xpipe and just leave the resonator and compare it with an aftermarket xpipe with the same set up.. i bet the only difference is 2-3HP... basically it doesnt prove anything that the aftermarket xpipe adds more due to dyno is full of crap... 3 dyno runs gives you different results and when you come back the next day shit will give you a different results from the last... so WTF.... i know i know it depends on the conditions but 2-3HP really? doesnt really do much shit on our cars.... unless its track then i understand buying a TI xpipe and exhaust would make a significant difference due to the light exhaust. I DONT KNOW ITS JUST ME I GUESS...

i know some are making the x pipes closer to the primary and some is exact same as the OEM but just no cats or resonator... so i say every company is just replicating to make it look nice...

this is the reason why i ordered one

1. its 400 compare to 1k+ on a metal tubing?...
2. if it breaks fawk it.... i spend 400 plus i highly doubt it will break... and or if it cracks ill just have it weld it.. no biggy
3. people buy replica cause most cannot justify spending so much on a product that doesnt cost much to make...I understand the fact that they have to make money of it... but with 100% profit i think thats just insane...(OH TRUST ME YES I SAID 100% ).. R&D or not if you compare all manufacture xpipe the only difference you will see is probably 1-3HP and some companies out their are claiming that thier product makes 20-30HP... anyways dyno is a joke anyways.... for example when i had my s2000 i dynoed 10 different intakes from $200 AEM to 3k ASM results...

3-5hp difference.. LMAO...

i say its the same with our xpipe.. minor bents, or place the xpipe in different place will probably give you 3-5hp tops difference.

but hey everyone is different... and i wish i think like most other people here that can justify spending on x amount of $$$ on a piece that will do the same as the cheap one...
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      11-15-2011, 12:37 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I have looked at pictures of all the available x-pipes and none are identical and I also don't think I have seen any one for which this is an exact replica. Can you point out the one that was copied for us?

You may well be right -- I doubt the seller of the ebay x-pipe did much R&D. On the other hand, designing a midpipe for a V8 is not rocket science (look in a Summit or Jegs catalog) and all the available x-pipes are pretty similar, with minor differences such as resonators or converters or none and different locations for the x section. Did all the available x-pipe makers rip off the designs from one another?
Was referring to your comment regarding Supersprint headers.
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      11-15-2011, 12:38 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Was referring to your comment regarding Supersprint headers.
OH
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      11-15-2011, 12:50 PM   #103
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OH
: )
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      11-15-2011, 01:19 PM   #104
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While I have bought a set of replica Supersprint headers and a replica Supersprint rear exhaust for my E36M3, I have also bought a real USA Supersprint midpipe, a real Euro Supersprint midpipe and a real Euro Supersprint rear exhaust for my E36M3.

You could make a career out of criticizing those who buy replica products. Who first made the CSL style wheel, for example, that Apex, VMR and others replicate? Many forum members have bought those replica wheels.

There is no patent on the x-pipe for these cars. Anyone who makes one is subject to having their design copied, unless they actually create and patent a certain process or idea. So far, none have.
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      11-15-2011, 01:27 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean05 View Post
Replica? hmmmm isnt every single one is a replica? plus its an xpipe.... i dont know how they can replicate it... its just an xpipe.... there is nothing much to change on an xpipe really..... some will change a tad bit of the design and call it...its the best and will make x amount of HP... LOL

if i gut a OEM xpipe and just leave the resonator and compare it with an aftermarket xpipe with the same set up.. i bet the only difference is 2-3HP... basically it doesnt prove anything that the aftermarket xpipe adds more due to dyno is full of crap... 3 dyno runs gives you different results and when you come back the next day shit will give you a different results from the last... so WTF.... i know i know it depends on the conditions but 2-3HP really? doesnt really do much shit on our cars.... unless its track then i understand buying a TI xpipe and exhaust would make a significant difference due to the light exhaust. I DONT KNOW ITS JUST ME I GUESS...

i know some are making the x pipes closer to the primary and some is exact same as the OEM but just no cats or resonator... so i say every company is just replicating to make it look nice...

this is the reason why i ordered one

1. its 400 compare to 1k+ on a metal tubing?...
2. if it breaks fawk it.... i spend 400 plus i highly doubt it will break... and or if it cracks ill just have it weld it.. no biggy
3. people buy replica cause most cannot justify spending so much on a product that doesnt cost much to make...I understand the fact that they have to make money of it... but with 100% profit i think thats just insane...(OH TRUST ME YES I SAID 100% ).. R&D or not if you compare all manufacture xpipe the only difference you will see is probably 1-3HP and some companies out their are claiming that thier product makes 20-30HP... anyways dyno is a joke anyways.... for example when i had my s2000 i dynoed 10 different intakes from $200 AEM to 3k ASM results...

3-5hp difference.. LMAO...

i say its the same with our xpipe.. minor bents, or place the xpipe in different place will probably give you 3-5hp tops difference.

but hey everyone is different... and i wish i think like most other people here that can justify spending on x amount of $$$ on a piece that will do the same as the cheap one...

Sean, I really don't think you have a good grasp on what it costs to manufacture something, especially in the United States.

And no, the cheap will not do the same as the high quality one. Well, it might, but not for long.

Like Singletrack said, if someone steals someone else's design and product, then it is a form of theft. Whether its legal or not is not the point, hopefully we all have enough ethics to understand right and wrong.
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      11-15-2011, 01:37 PM   #106
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lol at the comments of those "ripping off" designs of other companies as being thieves. Like it's any better to overcharge or upcharge a product because the market allows for it.

Aren't all of us always trying to find a product to be built "bigger/better/cheaper".
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      11-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #107
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If Malekrezza is having his MFR exhausts made in the US, he is right about costs as any of us who have paid US market rates for tig welding and stainless piping know. But some of the competitors have their exhausts made in china or other asian countries, and are making huge profits. Nothing wrong with making huge profits, except that eventually someone will figure out what you are doing and do it for less. The simpler the thing is that you are doing, the sooner that will happen, and V8 midpipes are really simple.

There will always be a market for those who want to spend top dollar for top quality products that may be better made, or made of better materials, or make slightly more power. There will also always be a market for those who want inexpensive, reasonably good products that make more power.

As for how long the ebay x-pipe will hold up, I think that remains to be determined. I personally am not really worried about it from what I have seen of it, but I have only about 25 years of experience hotrodding cars and while I have bought or had made a dozen exhausts, I am not an expert. The x-pipe does not seem to be highly stressed to me. The exhausts are well hung and have ball and socket connections. Without the cats, there is less heat in them.

As for legal theft, that is an oxymoron. And I do not believe Singletrack has identified any x-pipe that was copied to make this one.

Last edited by pbonsalb; 11-15-2011 at 02:45 PM.
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      11-15-2011, 04:51 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Sean, I really don't think you have a good grasp on what it costs to manufacture something, especially in the United States.

And no, the cheap will not do the same as the high quality one. Well, it might, but not for long.

Like Singletrack said, if someone steals someone else's design and product, then it is a form of theft. Whether its legal or not is not the point, hopefully we all have enough ethics to understand right and wrong.
I wonder where this is made....
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      11-15-2011, 05:03 PM   #109
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I wonder where this is made....
if your talking about the OP post or the one from ebay... im pretty sure China or taiwan... specially for that price...
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      11-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #110
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if your talking about the OP post or the one from ebay... im pretty sure China or taiwan... specially for that price...
Affirmative, in reference to the OP-specified unit. For that price, I wonder what kind of profit margin they have....

And then I wonder about these:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/43...mw_x_pipe.html

Minimum order of 5.....too bad they don't make anything for an E90 M3, otherwise I might have had to contact the guy.
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