BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
E92 Lighting
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-09-2011, 08:14 PM   #45
Year's_End
RWD only.
 
Year's_End's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Pete, FL

Posts: 12,288
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenb11 View Post
I don't think much came out of this. Jalopnik posted a big thing when he wrote this article. This is old news however, I remember reading this a year, maybe even more, ago. It seems this was written people ranted for a few days, then went back to drooling over the ferraris.

Personally, if I were in the market I could care less because this level of performance is (currently) well beyond me... But I'm also more of a lambo fan anyway. Aventador... Mmmmm...
The article is a critical piece of information for any car enthusiast that's picked up a car magazine or read an article involving a Ferrari. Btw this was published nine months ago. It certainly had a huge impact on how I view Ferraris in comparisons now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTM View Post
Exactly. This has been going on since the muscle car wars of the 60s and hasn't gone away. A while ago I read about a press Audi TT vs. a showroom Audi TT, supposedly identical cars, and the press car was quicker in nearly all regards. Porsche is also notorious for fiddling with their press cars.

As such a respected journalist, I found it odd for him to single out one manufacturer for engaging in these practices. While on the one hand, it did seem Ferrari took it to an extreme, in providing separate cars for acceleration and handling tests, it came across to me as an attempt to garner some attention and "bring down #1" rather than to bring to light what is a clear discrepancy between consumer cars and the versions the press test, which would have been a noble effort. Instead, he simply attacked one manufacturer, it came across to me as if he had a grudge of some sort anyway. A respected journalist, and I have sought out much of CH's stuff and liked it, should be capable of producing a balanced perspective within the automotive industry as a whole.

I said it when this first came to light and will now, misleading consumers about your products is inexcusable, and Ferrari was rightfully put on blast. It's just the way that it was implied that the cars Ferrari was being tested against, and winning against, weren't guilty of the same thing.
After re-reading the article, it looks as though his singling out Maranello stems from personal frustration, and rightly so if what he's saying is the truth. As you and I said, other automakers are sure to fiddle with their press cars a little—I'm certain BMW had a slew of beefed-up 335i's back when they were running consistent 4.8-4.9s 60mph runs in '07—but I doubt the degree of interference is anywhere near the level of bullshit that Ferrari's pulling.

I've grown increasingly critical of comparisons/first-drive articles of any sort since I read this article.
__________________
E92 335i: Space Grey|Coral Red|Aluminum Trim

Future Ride: 2015 Mustang GT Premium |Guard|401A|PP|Recaros|6MT
Year's_End is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2011, 08:33 PM   #46
Bigiggs
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 135is
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MD/DC/VA

Posts: 213
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I've grown increasingly critical of comparisons/first-drive articles of any sort since I read this article.

I hear that. Having said that, I can't imagine Ferrari is the only one, however from what Chris reports they do seem to take things a bit too far.
Bigiggs is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-09-2011, 09:06 PM   #47
BTM
Banned
 
Drives: A///MERICAN!!!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: A///MERICA!!!

Posts: 10,314
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I've grown increasingly critical of comparisons/first-drive articles of any sort since I read this article.
Aside from reading things because I'm interested in the car, I generally don't take these articles too seriously. Performance augmentation aside, there is no "point system" or automotive writer/editor who's going to have my exact preferences in mind. So I read to get some general info, but anything beyond that is just bench racing. For example, every magazine hates the Corvette's interior, and while it's certainly not the nicest, I don't find it egregious. Depending on the car, I couldn't care less about MPG, which these articles place a lot of emphasis on. Same with MSRP - I'm not in a position to buy new, and even if I were, I doubt I would.

Comparison tests are basically just supported by manufacturers so their dealers can keep copies in their showrooms of the ones their cars "win" for someone who doesn't know any better to feel warm and fuzzy about a purchase he's about to make. In respect to oneself, there really isn't much to be gleaned about a car you've never driven, and it's futile to form opinions on a car based on someone you've never met, whether they were driving an enhanced press car, or not. My 2c on automotive journalism, anyway. It's mildly informative entertainment, something to do while I take a shit
BTM is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-10-2011, 02:58 AM   #48
epbrown
Colonel
 
epbrown's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M Coupe, Porsche Boxster S
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 2,133
iTrader: (0)

Not only is this a repost - it's old news. Car & Driver wrote about such antics in the 90s. Tiff Needell on Fifth Gear was banned from testing Ferraris for a few years after being critical of the 360 or F355. Reportedly Harris wasn't allowed to drive the new FF at the media launch - he had to ride while a factory driver took him around.

Ferrari is the worst, I'm sure, but even Chris' precious Porsche AG is likely guilty of similar antics.

In the end, letting this stuff bother you is silly. Not only are most of the people "outraged" never going to be in the market for any Ferrari currently for sale, but the truth is the differences they go through all this to achieve are infinitesmal and bear no relevance to actual owners. Who's sitting at home gnashing his teeth and tearing out his hair because he can't manage the same 'Ring time as the magazines quoted for his 458?

Ferrari doesn't do this stuff to put one over on customers, they do it to win magazine comparisons - a corrupt, subjective and unscientific venue that puts them and every other car maker at a disadvantage.
epbrown is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2011, 03:52 AM   #49
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,201
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
Now, Chris Harris is going to tell Ferrari how to run their business. What makes Ferrari succesfull is bc they're control freaks and that's pretty much in every area of their operation. It's like every Tom, Dick and Harry on the forums telling BMW how to design their cars. You know how good they are,first thay hated the E92,F10 before they lined up to order em.
Who relies on car magazines to determine what car they should buy anyway?

Tell Chris Harris to get over it.
An very interesting counter point that has some truth for sure.

I used to tell this story about a very talented programmer I worked with. When confronted about a bug or potential bug, almost reflexively and somewhat arrogantly he would immediately say "No, nope, not possible". He was right more often than wrong and even when wrong, and even when it seemed a monumental task, he would have the bug fixed that same day. We all hoped he could be a but less abrasive but upon further reflection I realized that if he did not have these somewhat negative traits he probably wouldn't be half the programmer he was in the first place. They good and bad were pretty well tied together.

However, that being said, there is clearly a line between being control freaks about your product, history, legacy, engineering, manufacturing, quality, testing, marketing, etc., etc. and doing what Ferrari are doing here. They are cheating and attempting to control an audiences ability to have access to unbiased journalism. It is definitely crossing the line.

Would their products be as good if they did not have these particular behaviors? Open question in my humble opinion. I am leaning towards a yes though.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2011, 09:40 AM   #50
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
 
Robin_NL's Avatar
 
Drives: AW 1M , Assetto Corsa
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands, Europe

Posts: 4,687
iTrader: (0)

^Well said Swamp...(and US//M3)


Quote:
Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
Not only is this a repost - it's old news. Car & Driver wrote about such antics in the 90s. Tiff Needell on Fifth Gear was banned from testing Ferraris for a few years after being critical of the 360 or F355.
Then look at this, a repost as well, two Brits choosing that Italian horse as their favourite.



Are they nominated for the Grammy Awards yet?

Anyway. I'd choose the 458 too. Or are you saying a 'normal' 458 cannot do those tricks?

DISCLAIMER:I'm a big fan of Chris Harris though.
Robin_NL is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2011, 10:24 PM   #51
epbrown
Colonel
 
epbrown's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M Coupe, Porsche Boxster S
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 2,133
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
However, that being said, there is clearly a line between being control freaks about your product, history, legacy, engineering, manufacturing, quality, testing, marketing, etc., etc. and doing what Ferrari are doing here. They are cheating and attempting to control an audiences ability to have access to unbiased journalism. It is definitely crossing the line.
I would bet that Ferrari's argument would be that journalists aren't unbiased. Journalists, like anyone else, have their preferences and often will pick a car they like more based on subjective criteria regardless of its performance numbers compared to the competition. Chris Harris is a prime example - he loves the Porsche 911, and no comparo written by him is going to have any other winner. The company gives him greater access to their cars than anyone I've ever seen because the odds of Chris insulting a Porsche 911 is up there with me calling Kate Beckinsale a lousy lay.
epbrown is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-13-2011, 03:35 PM   #52
335fourdoor
Captain
 
Drives: 335 e90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west

Posts: 671
iTrader: (3)

after reading the article, i believe the mclaren is a superior car to 458.
335fourdoor is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST