BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-11-2011, 07:39 PM   #23
Kroy
Brigadier General
Kroy's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
3,035
Posts

 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
When our strategic and economic interests clearly merge with a humanitarian cause I think it's a no brainer.
That's actually my point. We step in only because of our interest, not because of humanitarian reasons. There are many other places we step in but choose not to. It's all politics, humanity is just an excuse. At least that's my belief.

Quote:
I'm sure you know one of the 2 Libyan intelligence officers you mention was found guilty in the bombing incident. Subsequently in 2003 Libya accepted responsibility for the bombing and begain paying the victims families. I think this is reason enough to conclude Gaddhafi had some responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am 103.
My point is still that this event was from 2 decades ago. If as you say Libya accepted responsibility for the bombing and began paying victim's families, then what is the problem? They've acknowledged and started reparations.

I really haven't done too much homework on this incident so I'm not aware of all the facts.

If Gaddhafi was in power at the time of the bombing, then yes he has to hold some sort of responsibility since he is the leader. But at the same time, I can't say for sure he was responsible for the attack. I'm sure there are many orchestrated events by our government's arms and legs that our president won't know about. This is really beside the point though.

All in all, I was very confused to why you were bringing up the Pan Am incident. I understand you want to link Gaddhafi to the incident but even if you could link him, it's been 20 years; shouldn't there be some type of statute of limitations? :P And again my point from last post, USA has done worse. Not an excuse or justification, just a truth.

Why was only 1 of 2 intelligence officers convicted?

Quote:
I'm not sure why it's relevent that the current president wasn't the sitting president during the court proceedings.
I only brought that up because you made reference about presidents, so I thought you were talking about our current one. I mean, why would you bring up the Pan Am incident from 20 years ago, then ask us "what would you have done if you were president?" Were you talking about our president from when the event happened? Thought you were talking about this as a current event. Might not have understood your point as you intended.


I'm not criticizing President Reagan's actions at the time. I don't know enough about what happened then to pass judgement.

Quote:
I'd also like to know your answer to my previous question. What you have done as president?
What I would have done if I were president when the bombing took place?

Or if I was in our current president, Obama's shoes?
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2011, 05:08 PM   #24
BKsBimmer
Lieutenant Colonel
BKsBimmer's Avatar
41
Rep
1,638
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330xi Titanium Silver
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA / Silver Spring, Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 330xi  [5.00]
2006 330xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
That's actually my point. We step in only because of our interest, not because of humanitarian reasons. There are many other places we step in but choose not to. It's all politics, humanity is just an excuse. At least that's my belief.
I understood your point, however to clarify my point; in this case stepping in with Libya makes sense, even by your standard since there were not only economic interests at stake, but humanitarian interests as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
My point is still that this event was from 2 decades ago. If as you say Libya accepted responsibility for the bombing and began paying victim's families, then what is the problem? They've acknowledged and started reparations.
The problem is what the problem always was and always will be. This tyrant is responsible for the cold blooded murder of innocent Americans. It's exactly the same as Osama Bin Laden being responsible for the cold blooded murder of innocent Americans on 9/11. Would you be willing to accept reparations from Osama Bin Laden or from Al Qaeda to call the matter settled? I wouldn't and there's no doubt in my mind that the families of all the 9/11 murder victims wouldn't either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
I really haven't done too much homework on this incident so I'm not aware of all the facts.
Respectfully, I believe it's always best to withold comment or judgement until you have all the facts. The participants being fully informed allows for a more meaningful debate or discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
If Gaddhafi was in power at the time of the bombing, then yes he has to hold some sort of responsibility since he is the leader. But at the same time, I can't say for sure he was responsible for the attack. I'm sure there are many orchestrated events by our government's arms and legs that our president won't know about. This is really beside the point though.
As stated before, the Libyan government's acknowledgement of responsibility is enough for me. Gadaffi was a dictator who was in power at the time of the incident, so he was at the very least indirectly responsible for the bombing. An accomplice to murder is as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger. Bin Laden didn't fly the planes into the World Trade Center but do you question whether he was responsible for the events of 9/11?

Regarding what crimes the US may or may not be responsible for my view is that you prosecute each crime separately. The focus of this discussion was on Gaddafi and his crimes. We can have another discussion about the US and it's alleged crimes, but it's not useful or meaningful to conflate the two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
All in all, I was very confused to why you were bringing up the Pan Am incident. I understand you want to link Gaddhafi to the incident but even if you could link him, it's been 20 years; shouldn't there be some type of statute of limitations? :P And again my point from last post, USA has done worse. Not an excuse or justification, just a truth.
The Pan Am incident is still extremely relevent for the reasons mentioned above. And no, there is no statute of limitations on murder.

As stated above my belief is that it's only useful and meaningful to prosecute one crime at a time and not to conflate one crime with another. This discussion is not about what crimes the US is or is not responsible for, but we can have that discussion in a different thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroy View Post
Why was only 1 of 2 intelligence officers convicted?
The evidence was much more conclusive for one of the officers than the other
__________________
_____________________________________
330xi/TiAg/Black/Alum/6sp/ZPP/ZSP/Nav/CA/CW/PDC/Sirius Satellite Radio/OEM Spoiler/Blacklines/19" Axis Hiro Hyper Silver/Toyo Proxes 4 Ultra High Performance all season F 235/35/19 R 265/30/19/10mm spacers F/15mm spacers R/M3 front bumber/M-tech rear bumper
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST