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      11-04-2011, 03:04 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
If you don't want to change the software to accomodate catless running, then you should stick with a pipe that eliminates just one set of cats or that substitutes high flow cats for the one set that remains. No CEL, emissions passability, substantial power gains, and closer to the ability of the stock ECU to adapt to take advantage of the improved flow. You can find dynos for these kinds of x pipes with some searching. Fabspeed makes one, Sosi makes one, Turner sells cat delete pipes for the stock exhaust, AA and Challenge and Akrapovic and others sell complete pipes with high flow cats, etc.
I hold one of the higher whp charts at 407.7whp along with jonmartin at 407whp and we used modified stock x pipes. My car even hadPeople can preach all they want about x designs and pipe diameter but ive yet to see it translate on the dyno sheet.

Ive since put on a full gintani true dual x pipe but that is for the great exotic sound more then the performance.
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      11-04-2011, 03:40 PM   #68
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I hold one of the higher whp charts at 407.7whp along with jonmartin at 407whp and we used modified stock x pipes. My car even hadPeople can preach all they want about x designs and pipe diameter but ive yet to see it translate on the dyno sheet.

Ive since put on a full gintani true dual x pipe but that is for the great exotic sound more then the performance.
Thanks for chiming in. What were your mods when you put down 407? Were your secondary cats removed as well? Did you gain anything with the gintani?
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      11-04-2011, 04:06 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
I hold one of the higher whp charts at 407.7whp along with jonmartin at 407whp and we used modified stock x pipes. My car even hadPeople can preach all they want about x designs and pipe diameter but ive yet to see it translate on the dyno sheet.

Ive since put on a full gintani true dual x pipe but that is for the great exotic sound more then the performance.
My car puts down 398 RWHP with just our exhaust system and tune. No other mods on 91 pump.

This dyno was done at DynoExtreme here in Stanton California and they did not even use a fan in front of the car. The dyno operator along with another M3 driver there was blown away.

There is a substantial difference between the factory mid-section and a true x-design mid-section that has been systematically tuned and setup to perform all across the power band.

I personally gained roughly 13 rwhp from a cat-less stock mid-section and our actual X-pipe system.

-Malek
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      11-04-2011, 04:25 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
My car puts down 398 RWHP with just our exhaust system and tune. No other mods on 91 pump.

This dyno was done at DynoExtreme here in Stanton California and they did not even use a fan in front of the car. The dyno operator along with another M3 driver there was blown away.

There is a substantial difference between the factory mid-section and a true x-design mid-section that has been systematically tuned and setup to perform all across the power band.

I personally gained roughly 13 rwhp from a cat-less stock mid-section and our actual X-pipe system.

-Malek
What are you running?
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      11-04-2011, 11:40 PM   #71
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I had secondary cats as well. Just turner test pipes.
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      11-04-2011, 11:42 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
I hold one of the higher whp charts at 407.7whp along with jonmartin at 407whp and we used modified stock x pipes. My car even hadPeople can preach all they want about x designs and pipe diameter but ive yet to see it translate on the dyno sheet.

Ive since put on a full gintani true dual x pipe but that is for the great exotic sound more then the performance.
Thanks for chiming in. What were your mods when you put down 407? Were your secondary cats removed as well? Did you gain anything with the gintani?
My car had problems around the time x pipe was installed so i cant say. Plugs were bad and i was missing 5 to 6 degrees of timing. It made 403 even with the misfiring problems. Ill dyno it again soon w/ new plugs.
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      11-04-2011, 11:45 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
I hold one of the higher whp charts at 407.7whp along with jonmartin at 407whp and we used modified stock x pipes. My car even hadPeople can preach all they want about x designs and pipe diameter but ive yet to see it translate on the dyno sheet.

Ive since put on a full gintani true dual x pipe but that is for the great exotic sound more then the performance.
My car puts down 398 RWHP with just our exhaust system and tune. No other mods on 91 pump.

This dyno was done at DynoExtreme here in Stanton California and they did not even use a fan in front of the car. The dyno operator along with another M3 driver there was blown away.

There is a substantial difference between the factory mid-section and a true x-design mid-section that has been systematically tuned and setup to perform all across the power band.

I personally gained roughly 13 rwhp from a cat-less stock mid-section and our actual X-pipe system.

-Malek
If true, Id like to test it we have a closed cell dyno here. If interested let me know. Ive found the rpi and gintani pipes to make best power. We have catted gintani cars making 411whp.
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      11-05-2011, 09:13 AM   #74
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[quote=M3DCTBT;10745659]If true, Id like to test it we have a closed cell dyno here. If interested let me know. Ive found the rpi and gintani pipes to make best power. We have catted gintani cars making 411whp.[/QUoute]

There just seems to be so many variables! I mean I can have a custom fabricated stock x pipe with just the front cats removed for 700 bucks. I'm trying to justify spending like 1500+ on an aftermarket x pipe with cats. I wish there were some standard dynos for us to compare.
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      11-05-2011, 09:21 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
My car puts down 398 RWHP with just our exhaust system and tune. No other mods on 91 pump.

This dyno was done at DynoExtreme here in Stanton California and they did not even use a fan in front of the car. The dyno operator along with another M3 driver there was blown away.

There is a substantial difference between the factory mid-section and a true x-design mid-section that has been systematically tuned and setup to perform all across the power band.

I personally gained roughly 13 rwhp from a cat-less stock mid-section and our actual X-pipe system.

-Malek
I just realized that you make your own products. How much is an X pipe with 200 cell primary cats? Will it throw a CEL?
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      11-06-2011, 02:48 AM   #76
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screw it ill be the bait... ill order this
any updates?
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      11-06-2011, 03:06 AM   #77
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I just realized that you make your own products. How much is an X pipe with 200 cell primary cats? Will it throw a CEL?
Malek is getting his sponsorship next week..thats when he will be able to spill the beans.

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      11-09-2011, 04:30 PM   #78
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any update?
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      11-09-2011, 04:49 PM   #79
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my x-pipe > all.

seriously though... my firends at Mastermind just got done testing their x-pipe with resonators and the text i got today says 22whp and 20lb-ft of torque on a NA M3... mine was a freak of nature and i somehow pulled out 60+whp supercharged :x
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      11-09-2011, 05:45 PM   #80
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my x-pipe > all.

seriously though... my firends at Mastermind just got done testing their x-pipe with resonators and the text i got today says 22whp and 20lb-ft of torque on a NA M3... mine was a freak of nature and i somehow pulled out 60 whp supercharged :x
22whp with just an xpipe?
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      11-09-2011, 05:47 PM   #81
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22whp with just an xpipe?
i haven't seen the charts but apparently the car is at EAS right now testing.

that's just hat the fabricator told me when i text him this morning.
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      11-09-2011, 07:34 PM   #82
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Does the crossover really look much worse than the Challenge crossover?

http://www.europeanautosource.com/pr...catless-e9x-m3

Look at image 3 of 8.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E92-E93-...172#vi-content

Look at image 8 of 9.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this based on a few quick observations you may have overlooked.


Brand X EBAY part:
- either really bad stacked tig welds or mig welds polished?
- unsupported brackets at the x section, with very little welded suface area or triangulation. High chance of cracking or bending
- misaligned piping at welded joint



- x mount tabs are uneven and or bent uneven by large margin





Challenge X pipe:

-precision hand tig welded x section
-laser cut and formed mount brackets with triangulation and larger welding surface area
- no break in piping, continuous.




We put in alot of time to make sure we coulde make a quality product in the USA and design brackets and components that will stand the test of time on the street or track without missing a beat. I hope this highlighted a few small things at a glance.
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      11-09-2011, 08:14 PM   #83
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The X pipes that make the best power merge at the beginning after primaries. RPi and Gintani. The stock style x's seem to make less when tested on our dyno in my experience.
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      11-09-2011, 08:31 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this based on a few quick observations you may have overlooked.


Brand X EBAY part:
- either really bad stacked tig welds or mig welds polished?
- unsupported brackets at the x section, with very little welded suface area or triangulation. High chance of cracking or bending
- misaligned piping at welded joint



- x mount tabs are uneven and or bent uneven by large margin





Challenge X pipe:

-precision hand tig welded x section
-laser cut and formed mount brackets with triangulation and larger welding surface area
- no break in piping, continuous.




We put in alot of time to make sure we coulde make a quality product in the USA and design brackets and components that will stand the test of time on the street or track without missing a beat. I hope this highlighted a few small things at a glance.
Good stuff. Im no expert. This thread has been very informative.
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      11-10-2011, 10:15 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
The X pipes that make the best power merge at the beginning after primaries. RPi and Gintani. The stock style x's seem to make less when tested on our dyno in my experience.
The RPI acually has the merge after the normal spot. I think gintani is the only one that moves it forward. The downside of moving the X section around is it can effect the sound, usually for the worse we found according to customer feedback. Ive never seen any back to back dynos that have shown more power by moving the cross over forward, even in our own development
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      11-10-2011, 10:38 AM   #86
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Quote:
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I have to respectfully disagree with you on this based on a few quick observations you may have overlooked.

We put in alot of time to make sure we coulde make a quality product in the USA and design brackets and components that will stand the test of time on the street or track without missing a beat. I hope this highlighted a few small things at a glance.
Your Challenge x-pipe is very pretty and looks like it is very well made. If cost was no object, I would prefer to have a $1500 Challenge x-pipe than a $500 no-name x-pipe. The welds and brackets on the $1500 x-pipe do look better than those on the $500 x-pipe.

People will buy and fit and dyno the $500 x-pipe so horsepower and torque comparisons can be made and they will test it over time so durability comparisons can be made. I was very impressed with the gains that Vishnu made with nothing more than inexpensive muffler shop crush bends inserted in place of the cats on a stock x-pipe:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585325
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      11-10-2011, 04:23 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
The X pipes that make the best power merge at the beginning after primaries. RPi and Gintani. The stock style x's seem to make less when tested on our dyno in my experience.
The RPI acually has the merge after the normal spot. I think gintani is the only one that moves it forward. The downside of moving the X section around is it can effect the sound, usually for the worse we found according to customer feedback. Ive never seen any back to back dynos that have shown more power by moving the cross over forward, even in our own development
The newest rpi has the x closer to the front. Which gives the car a more exotic sound howl and a tiny bit of rasp on full throttle. Which sounds awesome to most.
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      11-10-2011, 04:27 PM   #88
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[quote=M3DCTBT;10780263]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
The X pipes that make the best power merge at the beginning after primaries. RPi and Gintani. The stock style x's seem to make less when tested on our dyno in my experience.
The RPI acually has the merge after the normal spot. I think gintani is the only one that moves it forward. The downside of moving the X section around is it can effect the sound, usually for the worse we found according to customer feedback. Ive never seen any back to back dynos that have shown more power by moving the cross over forward, even in our own development
The newest rpi has the x closer to the front. Which gives the car a more exotic sound howl and a tiny bit of rasp on full throttle. Which sounds awesome to most. I also have never seen dyno charts of any x pipe development so i find it hard to believe any vendor tested these designs at all. I picked up 28whp same day same dyno with turner test pipea on the same tune. Stock rear crappy X and all. Alot of bs out there for an additional 1 to 2 whp.
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