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      06-13-2007, 06:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
I'm quoting actual Dyno results. Stock M5's dyno around 425-435hp.
A 335i dynos around 275hp on average.
I derived the M3's numbers based off the M5's drivetrain loss.

The 335 as you know is underrated and drivetrain loss is a percentage, not a number
No sh!t it is a %, I used some tricky math and converted it to a number!!
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      06-13-2007, 06:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
Wow, I wonder how the 335i won 1st and 4th place in a 12 hour endurance race against STI's and EVO's if it was on the side of the road trying to cool down.

http://www.bimf.com.au/latest_news.a...=16&Pagecat=16
Bone stock 335's?
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      06-13-2007, 06:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesier1111 View Post
I buy a car PURELY from the performance end, and there is PLENTY of easy suspension mods, tire/wheel mods that would make it so it wasn't just 0-60 times. I never, ever just talked about 0-60 times. I talked about other mods that would bring it to the same level on the track.
There are many factors that go into making a fast track car. Are you interested in getting the lowest laptimes with the lowest dollar spent? Honestly, I don't think ANY new BMW fits that description..... especially the E92 M3.....

So, "purely from the performance end" -- could mean something totally different depending on where you want the car to perform. Street or track. And how much you value comfort and getting "the whole package." That's where the M3 comes in. Again, lower laptimes can be achieved by spending a whole lot less money on a more track-focused car to begin with..... Or, if you want to spend $65K like you would on an M3, a C6 Z06.
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      06-13-2007, 06:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Bone stock 335's?
They are Procede equiped cars with full suspension, LSD, Aftermarket oil cooler and exhaust. That's it. Stock Brakes/intake/intercooler and of course stripped inside to remove weight.

Both Chipped cars never broke down during the race or had to pull over.
So YES, you can track your 335i w/o problems.
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      06-13-2007, 06:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
They are Procede equiped cars with full suspension, LSD, Aftermarket oil cooler and exhaust. That's it. Stock Brakes/intake/intercooler and of course stripped inside to remove weight.

Both Chipped cars never broke down during the race or had to pull over.
So YES, you can track your 335i w/o problems.
I wouldn't say "that's it". That is a good bit. Obviously it is helped from the typical cooling issues.
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      06-13-2007, 07:56 PM   #28
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i say BMW left a very slim margin between the M3 and 335, at least on paper anyways. don't bring up the csl because i think it's kind of a marketing ploy BS.

iphone anyone, haha just kiddin
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      06-13-2007, 08:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I wouldn't say "that's it". That is a good bit. Obviously it is helped from the typical cooling issues.
+10 As he said it had an "Aftermarket oil cooler." Definitely not stock.........

Well no wonder it lasted thru the endurance.....!

Anyways, I'm so sick and tired of people "worried" about the new M. Slight concern okay but since there are no hard facts then why assume it will be
a letdown???

If I had the money I would always take it over a mod'ed, lesser sibling.
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      06-13-2007, 08:48 PM   #30
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[quote= I buy a car PURELY from the performance end, and there is PLENTY of easy suspension mods, tire/wheel mods that would make it so it wasn't just 0-60 times. .[/QUOTE]

If you're looking purely for performance then it would be obvious to me that BMW isnt the right car for you, there are plenty of performance cars out there for 1\2 the price or less of an M3. There are plenty of sports cars out there, keep in mind a M3 is a 3 series FIRST that is modified to feel like a sports car, not the other way around.

Sorry guys but soapbox time...

Let's keep in mind that driving an M car isnt about 0 to 60 times, 1\4 mile, etc. Never was and never will be. There will always be something faster, blah blah. The reason you drive an M3 is cause your addicted to the visceral experience of the drive, feeling the car come together as one as the speed increases. Most cars come apart at the seams when you push it, where the M3 just begs for more. "Whole is greater than the sum of the parts" is what comes to mind. If you drive an M3, 911, Cayman - these arent cars with impressive paper numbers, but are drivers cars. You can get a cheap Mustang and do some crazy engine mods for cheap and blow by M3\911\Cayman all day on the drag strip or whatever. I went from an 01 M3 to a E90 330i and sold it for an 05 ZCP. I test drove the 335 but its just too dull, it doesnt matter if it has 1000 HP and 0 to 60 in 2.1 seconds, its just not as fun to drive as the drivers cars.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but just sick of reading about the paper comparisons of 0 to 60 times, 1\4 mile, etc. I do wonder how many posters here have owned an M3, 911, etc and can compare some real world driving experiences?

Just wait until you get to rev up that ///M V8 to 8000 RPM at WOT. The 335 guys can drive circles around me all day, but I wont notice cause I'll be enjoying the ///M experience all day and worth every penny IMO.:rocks:

I guess I should put on my fire suit, flame suit, or whatever its supposed to be called... lol

Last edited by MojorisinM3; 06-13-2007 at 08:51 PM. Reason: mistype
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      06-13-2007, 09:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesier1111 View Post
The more I read the more disappointed I am in what the new M3 will bring. It appears that the M5/M6 will be MUCH faster and still have the great handling characterstics. I know an "M" is unlike any other, but I got to start agreeing with 335i coupe owners who believe modding their coupe will make it an M. Between upgrading suspension and wheels, Vishnu (especially the V2 that is coming out), rear diff. and exhaust and the next thing you know you are holding turns as well as the M3, and beating it in 0-60 and 1/4 AND track times. I think it will be interesting to watch 45K 335i coupes with 10K of mods (bringing the total to 55k, less than a well equipped M3 will be) perhaps surpass the M3 in many performance categories.

God I hope I will be wrong, but with BMW officially expecting 0-62 times of not really any better than the outgoing E46 M3, I must say, as important as overall performance and handling are, straightline acceleration is still a very important part of the driving experience, both off and on the track.

Here's to the E92 M3 coming out and proving me dead wrong....please




The M3 will do 0-62 in about 4.2 ~ 4.3 seconds...!

BMW official quotes are always for regular "average joe" drivers. A 335 will not beat the M in handling, it's too top heavy and fat.

Drag racing is for hillbillies





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      06-13-2007, 10:44 PM   #32
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Modded Cars vs. M Cars

Just as an example of a heavily modded car vs. a near stock M car.

Looks great on paper but the M cars deliver the performance all the time.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v625978Y39Fwek3

More vids on the way......There will be something more exciting soon from the Supra and the turbo RS4s

Trust me.
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      06-14-2007, 07:02 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post


The M3 will do 0-62 in about 4.2 ~ 4.3 seconds...!

BMW official quotes are always for regular "average joe" drivers. A 335 will not beat the M in handling, it's too top heavy and fat.

Drag racing is for hillbillies





-Garrett
Agreed that the M is the way to go, but I believe that your 0-60 numbers are a little lofty.
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      06-14-2007, 10:22 AM   #34
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The M3 will only pull those 0-60 numbers with Drags. With normal tires, I would think 4.5-4.6
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      06-14-2007, 11:00 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajj View Post
u sure are making a lot of assumptions for a car that isn't released yet. funny thing is, i believe most of the disbelievers will diasappear when the car is finally tested...you all will know who you are. until then, you really are stressing a lot over conjectures and opinions...there are many things better to do than trying to convince others of your own insecurities about the car... really is fatiguing to read post on how the new m3 will be inadequate..the m3 is overpriced..blah.blah blah when the CAR ISN'T OUT YET and US prices are only estimates!

make it simple, if you're not that impressed WHEN the car is released, then don't buy it. there will be MANY that will take your place in line. ha!
I think you have a great point, I should just believe. But maybe for the first time in my life i can afford an M so I SO BADLY want it to be great. I just don't want to be so stoked and have it come out and be a dud, so to speak. I remember walking to class (law school) in miami right after the E46 M3s came out and I saw a brand new one and I drooled. I had read so much on them before they came out, and when I saw it, well, it drove me to get through law school. So now it appears I will be able to afford one, so I am looking to fulfill a long time dream.
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      06-14-2007, 11:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown View Post
Don't worry ... the modded 335i will be on the side of the road trying to cool off after 2 runs.
Well, we know this is just not to be true. With an oil cooler guys are beating this shit out of their cars and they are doing just fine. Just the early ones without the extra cooler on the automatics are the only ones overheating.
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      06-14-2007, 11:10 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojorisinM3 View Post
If you're looking purely for performance then it would be obvious to me that BMW isnt the right car for you, there are plenty of performance cars out there for 1\2 the price or less of an M3. There are plenty of sports cars out there, keep in mind a M3 is a 3 series FIRST that is modified to feel like a sports car, not the other way around.

Sorry guys but soapbox time...

Let's keep in mind that driving an M car isnt about 0 to 60 times, 1\4 mile, etc. Never was and never will be. There will always be something faster, blah blah. The reason you drive an M3 is cause your addicted to the visceral experience of the drive, feeling the car come together as one as the speed increases. Most cars come apart at the seams when you push it, where the M3 just begs for more. "Whole is greater than the sum of the parts" is what comes to mind. If you drive an M3, 911, Cayman - these arent cars with impressive paper numbers, but are drivers cars. You can get a cheap Mustang and do some crazy engine mods for cheap and blow by M3\911\Cayman all day on the drag strip or whatever. I went from an 01 M3 to a E90 330i and sold it for an 05 ZCP. I test drove the 335 but its just too dull, it doesnt matter if it has 1000 HP and 0 to 60 in 2.1 seconds, its just not as fun to drive as the drivers cars.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but just sick of reading about the paper comparisons of 0 to 60 times, 1\4 mile, etc. I do wonder how many posters here have owned an M3, 911, etc and can compare some real world driving experiences?

Just wait until you get to rev up that ///M V8 to 8000 RPM at WOT. The 335 guys can drive circles around me all day, but I wont notice cause I'll be enjoying the ///M experience all day and worth every penny IMO.:rocks:

I guess I should put on my fire suit, flame suit, or whatever its supposed to be called... lol
I won't flame you..........great rant, I read every bit of it, and you're not wrong. And deep down it is how i feel the same way, I guess I just put the Ms on a pedestal, and don't want a 335 biting at her heels. I guess I have to admit, I'm just praying the E92M3 shows up to the party and everyone bows, backs off and reins her king (or queen) as she has always been.
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      06-14-2007, 11:11 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Just as an example of a heavily modded car vs. a near stock M car.

Looks great on paper but the M cars deliver the performance all the time.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v625978Y39Fwek3

More vids on the way......There will be something more exciting soon from the Supra and the turbo RS4s

Trust me.
Thanks............you bastard, you got an M6. Listen, question for you, if money wasn't an issue, and you could do it all over again, what do you think you would choose: new M6, M5 or E92 M3??
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      06-14-2007, 11:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesier1111 View Post
Thanks............you bastard, you got an M6. Listen, question for you, if money wasn't an issue, and you could do it all over again, what do you think you would choose: new M6, M5 or E92 M3??

I obviously haven't driven the new M3 yet but I have had the 2 previous generations of M3 and I loved them. So much so I no longer have any Porsches.

Knowing what I know now....still the M6. The thing weighs 3900 pounds (about the same weight as my old E46 M3 Cab) and has 500+ HP and it sounds badass.

I don't think I can go back to lower HP specially since I do track my cars regularly anymore.
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      06-14-2007, 01:17 PM   #40
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screw this i'm buying a bugatti

lol

RIGHT!
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      06-14-2007, 02:46 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
No sh!t it is a %, I used some tricky math and converted it to a number!!
Ironically this thread just started on the M5board....RS4 sucks balls for drivetrain losses (17%). BMWs are pretty good (7%). Wait til the Supercar Shootout in Sweden vids come out....the Audi's out pwn'ed by almost every car.


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...05&postcount=1


Here is the link for the 335i....even better than the M5 at 6% loss (but I suspect this goes up with more power)

http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=647
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      06-14-2007, 03:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6 View Post
Anyways, I'm so sick and tired of people "worried" about the new M. Slight concern okay but since there are no hard facts then why assume it will be
a letdown???
Yup. What's the point of worrying when the new car isn't out yet. My main concern with modified car is reliability and warranty troubles. Sure, there are great products out there but you will always run into risks.
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      06-14-2007, 05:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
I'm quoting actual Dyno results. Stock M5's dyno around 425-435hp.
Quote from M5board

The e60 M5 is one of the best with only 7% loss - 465bhp at the wheels

Yikes, missed that one bmwzimmer...
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      06-14-2007, 11:54 PM   #44
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It will be faster than the E46. How can it not? More HP, same weight. Similar weight distribution. it will blow the E46 away. This thing will have a screamer in it it.

I don't get all the melancholy around here.
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