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      11-15-2010, 11:42 PM   #23
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right ...

Thank you!!! Great Example!!!

I'm not a Fernando's fan...but no way I will doubt his skill and talent!!!
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      11-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #24
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All I can say is that Vettel deserves it and am so, so pleased that Alonso did not wine, anybody but the troll!! lol!
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      11-16-2010, 12:35 AM   #25
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Thank you Javi
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      11-17-2010, 05:27 PM   #26
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Anyone in alonso's position would be crying after that one. it's not like he f'ed up. his pitting was just not the best timed. He was a points leader for the last 3 races (i think) and i strongly believe that many thought he was the favored to win. It doesn't matter that he's already got 2 championships under his belt- it hurts to miss out on the opportunity to be in the same class as Ayrton.
I know Alonso isn't the most favored driver on the grid, but you have to give him credit for the way he drove his car in the second half of the season.
However, i will also say that it's nice to know that next year we'll have another driver on the grid with title..... and an interesting career to look forward to.
agree. why so much hate for the guy. he is a brilliant driver and was leading the championship up to this point. vettel was lucky to win this championship.

look at the gap between massa and alonso. that shows how good alonso is when he is really focus. if you look back in the past, massa was pretty close to kimi. for him coming to the final race leading the championship in an inferior car compare to redbull or mclaren for most of the season is no easy task. Then loose out in the final race due to bad call from the team. what not to like about his skill?

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      11-17-2010, 06:38 PM   #27
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I don't really like Alonso (not hating yet...) but i don't think any of us here saying he's a rubbish driver....he got skillz, talent, dedication, determined, ambition. But I dun him personally, especially to do "whatever it takes" to win.

by "whatever it takes" doesn't mean he drove brilliantly and fast, means he will ask his teammate to move over, and believes some other teams should get out of his way even he (Petrov) is entitled to defend his position.
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      11-17-2010, 07:11 PM   #28
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agree. why so much hate for the guy. he is a brilliant driver and was leading the championship up to this point. vettel was lucky to win this championship.

look at the gap between massa and alonso. that shows how good alonso is when he is really focus. if you look back in the past, massa was pretty close to kimi. for him coming to the final race leading the championship in an inferior car compare to redbull or mclaren for most of the season is no easy task. Then loose out in the final race due to bad call from the team. what not to like about his skill?
this
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      11-17-2010, 07:16 PM   #29
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I don't really like Alonso (not hating yet...) but i don't think any of us here saying he's a rubbish driver....he got skillz, talent, dedication, determined, ambition. But I dun him personally, especially to do "whatever it takes" to win.

by "whatever it takes" doesn't mean he drove brilliantly and fast, means he will ask his teammate to move over, and believes some other teams should get out of his way even he (Petrov) is entitled to defend his position.
this.
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      11-17-2010, 07:58 PM   #30
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I don't really like Alonso (not hating yet...) but i don't think any of us here saying he's a rubbish driver
Exactly. All F1 drivers are an elite group, but comparisons among them are inevitable. And like in all competitions, anything other than #1 doesn't cut it for the 'losers'. But even #10 in the world is an amazing feat. Having said that, not all winners are always the best. Any wins aided by cheating, like Alonso, are illegitimate IMO, but other fanboys might object to that . And no, I didn't mean they're not talented.

A clear case where a winner is not the best was Nicky Hayden as MotoGP champion (by a hair). He was lucky to be consistently in the midpack, while the top riders had accidents, mechanical problems, etc. Still a win is a win, but you just can't put Hayden in the company of Rossi and others.

But there're many considerations more. One is having a great vehicle, like Vettel obviously had, but there's a lot more to it. There's always an infinite number of compromises between cornering and straight line speed, and making the right adjustments is critical. And that's where the team comes in. Then you have the strategists. And the engineers.... Obviously a team effort. There's no denying SV is an amazing driver, but more importantly, he has what it takes to keep focused even after losing 75 points with mechanical DNFs. He's a master at pushing the car to its absolute limit. A fanboy was defending Schumacher he wasn't used to the handling of the new tires, but if you don't learn that in a freaking season, you're not the great driver you think you are. A great driver adapts in laps, not a season. A race or two might cut it, but not a season. SV finally had a bit of luck he eluded the whole season, but that doesn't diminish his win in any way. And that also proves it's a team effort indeed.

Finally, I'd probably rate Alonso up there with Vettel, Hamilton and Kubica (each one has his particular strenghts), but he's an arrogant b*tch .
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      11-17-2010, 08:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Exactly. All F1 drivers are an elite group, but comparisons among them are inevitable. And like in all competitions, anything other than #1 doesn't cut it for the 'losers'. But even #10 in the world is an amazing feat. Having said that, not all winners are always the best. Any wins aided by cheating, like Alonso, are illegitimate IMO, but other fanboys might object to that . And no, I didn't mean they're not talented.

A clear case where a winner is not the best was Nicky Hayden as MotoGP champion (by a hair). He was lucky to be consistently in the midpack, while the top riders had accidents, mechanical problems, etc. Still a win is a win, but you just can't put Hayden in the company of Rossi and others.

But there're many considerations more. One is having a great vehicle, like Vettel obviously had, but there's a lot more to it. There's always an infinite number of compromises between cornering and straight line speed, and making the right adjustments is critical. And that's where the team comes in. Then you have the strategists. And the engineers.... Obviously a team effort. There's no denying SV is an amazing driver, but more importantly, he has what it takes to keep focused even after losing 75 points with mechanical DNFs. He's a master at pushing the car to its absolute limit. A fanboy was defending Schumacher he wasn't used to the handling of the new tires, but if you don't learn that in a freaking season, you're not the great driver you think you are. A great driver adapts in laps, not a season. A race or two might cut it, but not a season. SV finally had a bit of luck he eluded the whole season, but that doesn't diminish his win in any way. And that also proves it's a team effort indeed.

Finally, I'd probably rate Alonso up there with Vettel, Hamilton and Kubica (each one has his particular strenghts), but he's an arrogant b*tch .

First off, just because someone has a different opinion that you, does not make him a 'fanboy'. That's an old mudslinging tactic used to belittle others' opinions. I appreciate your opinion man, but let's try to be respectful of each other.

Now regarding Alonso - I'll admit my bias in the beginning and say that I like the guy's driving. I think he has a pretty ugly personality from time to time, but his driving is just incredible. I think the 'cheating' reference isn't really fair, and here's why - whatever infraction of the rules he (and Ferrari) made, was dealt with by the FIA and resolved. I'll give you a comparison - remember how Hamilton jumped the safety car in Valencia? He ended up getting a drive-through penalty 20 laps later. Everyone thought this was incredibly unfair, since the drive through cost him no loss in positions (even though Alonso, who didn't illegally pass the SC, lost 6 positions by getting stuck behind the SC). Does everyone refer to Hamilton as a cheater today? No! He was punished, and even if the punishment did not seem to match the crime, that's not his fault. This is not even considering the moral side of the debate - that alot of respected pundits consider that rulebook aside, it was completely 'fair' for Ferrari to ask their own driver to yield to another. Many of teams have done it in the past, and after all, there's a reason why he's called a 'teammate'.
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      11-17-2010, 08:51 PM   #32
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i like you ^^
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      11-17-2010, 09:27 PM   #33
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First off, just because someone has a different opinion that you, does not make him a 'fanboy'.
Indeed. Irrational justifications is what makes somebody a fanboy. And if you (or anybody else) gets offended by 'fanboy', you don't belong on an internet forum . Everybody is a fanboy of something or somebody. No disrespect, 'belittling', or anything like that from me. Notice I didn't argue any further because nobody wins with diehard fans (aka fanboys) . And if you don't like my posts, you can always skip them. Or even 'ignore' me if I'm that offensive to you .

And about Alonso, you also missed the point many of us made with your selective reading . What makes him a cheater is that he EXPECTS others to let him cheat. He DEMANDS that his teammate move over. He throws a finger to a great racer (Petrov) from a DIFFERENT team who didn't let him by. THAT's what we mean by 'cheater'. Taking advantage of opportunities you didn't expect (a penalty not called, somebody moving over for you, etc) doesn't make you a cheater.

Last edited by elp_jc; 11-17-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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      11-17-2010, 09:50 PM   #34
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For me, the bottom line is, I don't like Alonso, but massive respect to the two time world champion!!!

Btw...how come this thread was suppose to be about Vettel...and turns into Alonso instead...
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      11-17-2010, 09:57 PM   #35
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Indeed. Irrational justifications is what makes somebody a fanboy. And if you (or anybody else) gets offended by 'fanboy', you don't belong on an internet forum . Everybody is a fanboy of something or somebody. No disrespect, 'belittling', or anything like that from me. Notice I didn't argue any further because nobody wins with diehard fans (aka fanboys) . And if you don't like my posts, you can always skip them. Or even 'ignore' me if I'm that offensive to you .

And about Alonso, you also missed the point many of us made with your selective reading . What makes him a cheater is that he EXPECTS others to let him cheat. He DEMANDS that his teammate move over. He throws a finger to a great racer (Petrov) from a DIFFERENT team who didn't let him by. THAT's what we mean by 'cheater'. Taking advantage of opportunities you didn't expect (a penalty not called, somebody moving over for you, etc) doesn't make you a cheater.
I just said that I respect your opinion, but now you are making me eat my own words. Calling someone a fanboy IS disrespecting their opinion. A fanboy is someone that is so blinded by one side that they can't appreciate another point of view. Have any of us displayed this? I don't know, but I know that I personally make every attempt to at least acknowledge the other point of view. If your goal is to be incendiary and piss everyone off, then I'll back off. But if you're going to repeatedly make foolish and ridiculous statements with no substance and full conviction, then yes, I'm going to confront them!

I don't know how you define cheater, but all of those traits you just labeled above is NOT cheating. Getting flustered by another team holding you up is NOT cheating. Showing the finger is NOT cheating (although it's poor sporting behavior). Asking your teammate to move over is NOT cheating (although your team asking your teammate is). A cheater is someone who willfully breaks the rules; I see only one instance of that happening this season- Massa moving over - and that was only due to his TEAM asking Massa to move over. It sounds to me like you just don't like Alonso's "I'll do anything to win" personality, which is perfectly fine with me. But if he's NOT breaking the rules, he's NOT a cheater. Ok? If you're going to make accusations, as least understand the definitions first. Or if you're going to make up definitions, then at least be consistent - Hamilton is a cheater for jumping the safety car, Webber is a cheater for crashing into Hamilton, Vettel is a cheater for holding everyone up behind the safety car, etc.
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      11-17-2010, 09:58 PM   #36
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For me, the bottom line is, I don't like Alonso, but massive respect to the two time world champion!!!

Btw...how come this thread was suppose to be about Vettel...and turns into Alonso instead...
Sorry man, went way off topic. But come on, don't tell me you're not enjoying the back-and-forth
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      11-17-2010, 10:11 PM   #37
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this man knows what he is talking about. totally agree.

i rather watch guy like alonso or hamilton who will do whatever it take to win a race than guy like button (boring). that's what competition is all about. you gotta be hungry.

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I just said that I respect your opinion, but now you are making me eat my own words. Calling someone a fanboy IS disrespecting their opinion. A fanboy is someone that is so blinded by one side that they can't appreciate another point of view. Have any of us displayed this? I don't know, but I know that I personally make every attempt to at least acknowledge the other point of view. If your goal is to be incendiary and piss everyone off, then I'll back off. But if you're going to repeatedly make foolish and ridiculous statements with no substance and full conviction, then yes, I'm going to confront them!

I don't know how you define cheater, but all of those traits you just labeled above is NOT cheating. Getting flustered by another team holding you up is NOT cheating. Showing the finger is NOT cheating (although it's poor sporting behavior). Asking your teammate to move over is NOT cheating (although your team asking your teammate is). A cheater is someone who willfully breaks the rules; I see only one instance of that happening this season- Massa moving over - and that was only due to his TEAM asking Massa to move over. It sounds to me like you just don't like Alonso's "I'll do anything to win" personality, which is perfectly fine with me. But if he's NOT breaking the rules, he's NOT a cheater. Ok? If you're going to make accusations, as least understand the definitions first. Or if you're going to make up definitions, then at least be consistent - Hamilton is a cheater for jumping the safety car, Webber is a cheater for crashing into Hamilton, Vettel is a cheater for holding everyone up behind the safety car, etc.
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      11-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #38
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Sorry man, went way off topic. But come on, don't tell me you're not enjoying the back-and-forth
no worries...that's what forum is for...open discussion...

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I don't know how you define cheater, but all of those traits you just labeled above is NOT cheating. Getting flustered by another team holding you up is NOT cheating. Showing the finger is NOT cheating (although it's poor sporting behavior). Asking your teammate to move over is NOT cheating (although your team asking your teammate is). A cheater is someone who willfully breaks the rules; I see only one instance of that happening this season- Massa moving over - and that was only due to his TEAM asking Massa to move over. It sounds to me like you just don't like Alonso's "I'll do anything to win" personality, which is perfectly fine with me. But if he's NOT breaking the rules, he's NOT a cheater. Ok? If you're going to make accusations, as least understand the definitions first. Or if you're going to make up definitions, then at least be consistent - Hamilton is a cheater for jumping the safety car, Webber is a cheater for crashing into Hamilton, Vettel is a cheater for holding everyone up behind the safety car, etc.
Technically, its massa's own "decision" to move over...
Anyhow, all race drivers are at some point going for some loop holes or willing to break some rule if there's a clear advantage. Another example, LH qualify pole in Canada with an empty fuel tank, without complete the in-lap. That's the loop hole that Lewis and McLaren "brilliantly" took advantage of.

That's how teams determine to win....teams take different approach. Red Bulls decided to work harder. But teams and driver taking different approach to win is what makes Formula 1 and motor racing interesting.

Also brings controversies and discussion all the time. otherwise off track forum will be boring.

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this man knows what he is talking about. totally agree.

i rather watch guy like alonso or hamilton who will do whatever it take to win a race than guy like button (boring). that's what competition is all about. you gotta be hungry.
I love watching them racing wheel to wheel. Cannot wait till next March!!!!
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      11-20-2010, 04:43 PM   #39
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All I can say is that Vettel deserves it and am so, so pleased that Alonso did not wine, anybody but the troll!! lol!
the troll says, you can hate him for his personality, but not for his behaviour on the track, unlike MSCH or that Lewis Hamilton aka the cheater-then-i-smile-to-the-cameras. Oh yeah, hold to the Singapure thing forever

Everybody talks about team orders, but seems nobody remember the LH "safety car? what is that?" wich made Vettel win, ruined Alonso race and maybe championship this year

and a little thing more. Alonso, with the RB, had been champion at the middle of the season

FU haters, what else can i say


damn, he made me writte in bold

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      11-20-2010, 08:54 PM   #40
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when you type in bold, your english improves dramatically
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      11-22-2010, 10:21 AM   #41
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      10-09-2011, 03:02 AM   #42
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      10-09-2011, 03:09 AM   #43
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      10-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #44
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