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      10-05-2011, 07:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Of course you should do whatever you think is right, but if it were me, I'd probably still buy cars from them. Just get them serviced elsewhere.

Service is where new car dealers make their money. Not from sales.

Since you've had a multi-year, multi-purchase relationship, why burn that bridge.

Trust me. When it gets back to the GM that they have a loyal sales customer who has given up on their service department, there will be a back-behind-the-barn meeting.

Don't ever ask about it. Just enjoy.

I'd call the sales guy back and tell him you overreacted in regard to your purchase decisions - but not your service decisions.

Bruce
It did go all the way to the new GM and he agreed with the service manager - then the guy emailed me to that affect instead of calling me - as I had requested several times. I wonder if people really read the whole post ; ) I kid, I kid. Once that happened, I knew I was destined for additional pain if I kept doing business with them. They just don't "get it" if you know what I mean.
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      10-05-2011, 07:41 PM   #46
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cases like this even if you agree with OP or the dealer makes me think we should all call or write the dealer and let them know we are aware of this incident. being aware MIGHT be enough to start making some changes.
I am writing a quick note, everyone reading this write one tonite.

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      10-05-2011, 07:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by chuckvic View Post
cases like this even if you agree with OP or the dealer makes me think we should all call or write the dealer and let them know we are aware of this incident. being aware MIGHT be enough to start making some changes.
I am writing a quick note, everyone reading this write one tonite.

chuck
I do like this idea. Information is power and today we have access to information instantaneously. The internet is a new avenue for positive press, but those who fail on customer service should also reap the consequences.
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      10-05-2011, 08:48 PM   #48
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^ RD

Oh I get that the bad experiences suck, and I can beat that one
  1. Take my wife's SUV in for 60k mile service
  2. It's up on the rack, INSIDE THEIR BUILDING, overnight
  3. In the morning I get a call: "Your car's ready, but someone broke in overnight and stole your stereo" WTF?!? Very nice Alpine BTW
  4. Yes, their work order says they aren't liable. But their GM (owner's kid...) refused to even talk to me about paying for the loss. Even though the car was IN THEIR BUILDING
  5. Come to find out, they've had multiple break-ins over the past years. D'ya think it MIGHT be an inside job...?

F*ckers. But hey, did my best to cost them some money by telling everyone I know not to buy from them. After that, screw it.

So I completely agree with you, but the good still outweighs the bad.

Peace
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      10-05-2011, 09:15 PM   #49
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ultimately it was more about the time from the date of service to the date of complaint being filed i believe. had you brought this in a week after it happened they probably would have done all of the work free of charge with an apology.

In their mind you drove 5017 miles and anywhere along the line something could have happened that was driver fault or road conditions or some external factor that was not directly their fault that caused this leak. For them to justify a full cost of replacement when it had been driven so far was not something they would have felt responsible for.

Ultimately your father in law could have taken this to another dealership and had them check for the problem in the first couple hundred miles of driving and that dealership could have called your dealership to pay for the repair as a result of the problem stemming from their tech.

I would highly doubt that any other dealership for any brand of car would agree its entirely their fault after 5017 miles were put on the car before a complaint was brought to their attention.

Would you expect a full refund for drinking a half bottle of pepsi before you realized you actually ordered coke?

i agree with you that years of purchasing and referring should have overshadowed the problem but i think your timing is what presented the main feeling of not having to fully cover it.

edit: i also had very poor customer service with my first bmw and swore id never buy one again as a result - i had an opportunity to help out a friends client who happened to be a sales manager at one of the bmw dealerships in az here. he told me he could change my opinion and make it right for me. He succeeded and I am back on board the roundel romance train.

may not be worth burning a bridge over in all honesty but i completely support your decision as a consumer to be frustrated!
Give me one example of how that oil filter could have loosened without some sort of major impact that would be present, and noted, by the dealership in CT.

Your analogy is a pretty hard "miss" by my standards. Honestly, no offense intended. I paid for a service, it wasn't done properly, and the car needed more work as a result. It really doesn't matter if I figured it out the next day, or in 7 months.

Also - some in addition to you might be interested to know that I just spoke (via email since he is sick) to Ron Kean, the excellent sales guy that I mentioned. I told him I will consider doing business solely through him in the future, but my service business is going to Rahal. I've never heard a bad thing about them, so going to give them a try. They should be a 45min drive vs. about 35mins to SCS, so no big problem making the switch.
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      10-05-2011, 09:21 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckvic View Post
cases like this even if you agree with OP or the dealer makes me think we should all call or write the dealer and let them know we are aware of this incident. being aware MIGHT be enough to start making some changes.
I am writing a quick note, everyone reading this write one tonite.

chuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvee View Post
I do like this idea. Information is power and today we have access to information instantaneously. The internet is a new avenue for positive press, but those who fail on customer service should also reap the consequences.
Thanks for the support fellas, didn't expect all that!

It's interesting the myriad of responses here - everything from me needing to lower my standards, me being a dick (well maybe a little when provoked), to people taking it to the streets! ; )
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      10-05-2011, 09:25 PM   #51
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Given theres a 5000 mile difference I can see where the SM is coming from as far as oil leak, and not coming back right away. But I have paid or refunded customers that I know we did nothing wrong, with knowing He or she is a good customer and I will earn my money back. I just simply tell the customer, We really cant accept blame as you have 5000 miles between our last service, but let me take care of your bill for you, sorry for any inconvinience, or better yet, I woud just offer the next oil service free of charge.
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      10-05-2011, 09:34 PM   #52
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So the oil line could not have loosened at any time during the cross country trip? I could see posting about a $703.00 bill, but $70.30? C'mon.
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      10-05-2011, 09:37 PM   #53
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Given theres a 5000 mile difference I can see where the SM is coming from as far as oil leak, and not coming back right away. But I have paid or refunded customers that I know we did nothing wrong, with knowing He or she is a good customer and I will earn my money back. I just simply tell the customer, We really cant accept blame as you have 5000 miles between our last service, but let me take care of your bill for you, sorry for any inconvinience, or better yet, I woud just offer the next oil service free of charge.
Those are all reasonable comments, but let's not forget what Paul *actually* said though since we are exploring this avenue:

"If we had not properly secured the oil filter housing 5,017 miles ago the vehicle would have lost all of its oil. The vehicle wouldn't have made it 100 miles and not left a puddle of oil on the floor."

He is saying that what another BMW dealer told me is impossible - it simply could not have happened. There is no way for an oil filter to have a slow leak. It is either properly installed, or all the oil will fall out. Therefore, it must be impossible that tightening the oil filter fixed it as well. So my father in law and the other bmw dealer must be mistaken. Does that really seem likely? Would a reasonably intelligent person actually entertain that explanation. Would the fact that they had to even process it aggravate them...especially over $35?
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      10-05-2011, 09:50 PM   #54
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So the oil line could not have loosened at any time during the cross country trip? I could see posting about a $703.00 bill, but $70.30? C'mon.
It isn't a line, it is an oil filter....and to answer your question, no oil filters do not loosen on their own. In the case of the 2006 750Li, the filter clips into a housing and then the housing snaps into place, then there is a drain plug on the housing itself. Holy over-engineering Germany ; )

I'm not sure if it was the plug that wasn't torqued properly, or the housing that was not snapped in properly. Whatever they did, it fixed the problem. As mentioned, he did not hit any debris or sustain any damage, so how else would it have gotten that way? SCS was the last to touch it.

The oil drip was discovered when he first went back to CT, so maybe after 1k miles. He couldn't find a leak, so he thought it might just be from a "messy" change when there is extra oil leaking down from the subframe, etc. He kept driving it while monitoring and the leak remained constant and very small. When he was done with his vacation, he had it fixed. It's all rather logical.

It isn't the amount of money; you are totally missing the point.
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      10-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #55
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No its not entirely imposible to have a slow leak on an oil filter housing. But given the situation you or your inlaw would have noticed the leak sooner, and called them to let them know. Given that you popped out of nowhere 5000 miles later, the car looked at elsewhere ( i understand he is miles apart) kinda make it hard for the SM to see where your coming from.
Being I speak from experience behind a service desk, Im not saying your wrong, but just saying I understand why he didnt think it was their fault. I too woukd question why wait so long to adress the issue. It very well possible it had a simple leak elsewhere, and the other SM mis understood the tech, and mis informed you. Not stating this is the case.

In any regards I would have given you the full refund given your service records, but me in your shoes, I probably would have just left it alone, and not raise hell about it.
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      10-05-2011, 11:31 PM   #56
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Give me one example of how that oil filter could have loosened without some sort of major impact that would be present, and noted, by the dealership in CT.

Your analogy is a pretty hard "miss" by my standards. Honestly, no offense intended. I paid for a service, it wasn't done properly, and the car needed more work as a result. It really doesn't matter if I figured it out the next day, or in 7 months.

Also - some in addition to you might be interested to know that I just spoke (via email since he is sick) to Ron Kean, the excellent sales guy that I mentioned. I told him I will consider doing business solely through him in the future, but my service business is going to Rahal. I've never heard a bad thing about them, so going to give them a try. They should be a 45min drive vs. about 35mins to SCS, so no big problem making the switch.
take a step backward a page on the thread and actually read what i wrote before you get all hulk style there fella.

In their mind you drove 5017 miles and anywhere along the line something could have happened that was driver fault or road conditions or some external factor that was not directly their fault that caused this leak. For them to justify a full cost of replacement when it had been driven so far was not something they would have felt responsible for.

notice the bold slanty underlined part of my statement... and if it wasnt made clear just now... ill type it in caps in big hulk like letters THEIR MIND

i didnt say in my mind you drove... they are a business that looks at it as what it is. 5000 miles put on a car then a complaint about a service. many businesses wouldnt stand up and absorb this cost whether they should or not.

i would be just as frustrated as you are if i was in your shoes but sometimes taking a moment to look at it from the angle they are also helps understand the reply you get from the person who has to make a decision.

The person who made this decision probably did the same and saw how from your side it would be frustrating and could have been their fault. and from his side he probably thinks his techs are great and did no wrong and that you waited too long for it to be really possible that it was their fault 5000 miles prior so he just said "f it, ill split it 50/50 and hope its all good".

sales people have a way of making it work better... i too had a rough start to an experience with my first service in my m3. i bought the car from a dealership that was half an hour away as opposed to 5 minutes away (same dealership, just a dif location) and was told that they would always reserve a loaner car for me if trying to schedule in advance. the sa told me "we dont reserve loaner cars due to cancellations and no shows being too frequent" and one call to my sales manager i had a new email letting me know my loaner car would be reserved and waiting the next morning.

i am in agreement with you so wasnt exactly expecting your big green muscles to come trying to rip me up.
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      10-05-2011, 11:47 PM   #57
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take a step backward a page on the thread and actually read what i wrote before you get all hulk style there fella.

In their mind you drove 5017 miles and anywhere along the line something could have happened that was driver fault or road conditions or some external factor that was not directly their fault that caused this leak. For them to justify a full cost of replacement when it had been driven so far was not something they would have felt responsible for.

notice the bold slanty underlined part of my statement... and if it wasnt made clear just now... ill type it in caps in big hulk like letters THEIR MIND

i didnt say in my mind you drove... they are a business that looks at it as what it is. 5000 miles put on a car then a complaint about a service. many businesses wouldnt stand up and absorb this cost whether they should or not.

i would be just as frustrated as you are if i was in your shoes but sometimes taking a moment to look at it from the angle they are also helps understand the reply you get from the person who has to make a decision.

The person who made this decision probably did the same and saw how from your side it would be frustrating and could have been their fault. and from his side he probably thinks his techs are great and did no wrong and that you waited too long for it to be really possible that it was their fault 5000 miles prior so he just said "f it, ill split it 50/50 and hope its all good".

sales people have a way of making it work better... i too had a rough start to an experience with my first service in my m3. i bought the car from a dealership that was half an hour away as opposed to 5 minutes away (same dealership, just a dif location) and was told that they would always reserve a loaner car for me if trying to schedule in advance. the sa told me "we dont reserve loaner cars due to cancellations and no shows being too frequent" and one call to my sales manager i had a new email letting me know my loaner car would be reserved and waiting the next morning.

i am in agreement with you so wasnt exactly expecting your big green muscles to come trying to rip me up.
Not hulking, don't know why you think I am. I just don't think your analogy is good - honestly...there probably isn't a particularly nice way to say that.

With regard to the whole "their mind" thing. I told them the car leaked oil the entire time at a slow pace. Besides, it would take a pretty major impact to move the filter and cause a leak. There would be evidence of damage and none was noted by the other dealer. Likewise, my father in law is not a dishonest guy, so he would have told me and them. So what I'm saying is that their whole logic is totally flawed from the start, so I really have no interest in looking at it from their point of view when they make no sense.
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      10-05-2011, 11:58 PM   #58
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No its not entirely imposible to have a slow leak on an oil filter housing. But given the situation you or your inlaw would have noticed the leak sooner, and called them to let them know. Given that you popped out of nowhere 5000 miles later, the car looked at elsewhere ( i understand he is miles apart) kinda make it hard for the SM to see where your coming from.
Being I speak from experience behind a service desk, Im not saying your wrong, but just saying I understand why he didnt think it was their fault. I too woukd question why wait so long to adress the issue. It very well possible it had a simple leak elsewhere, and the other SM mis understood the tech, and mis informed you. Not stating this is the case.

In any regards I would have given you the full refund given your service records, but me in your shoes, I probably would have just left it alone, and not raise hell about it.
I already explained in another post that the leak was noticed much sooner than at the tail end of 5k miles. That was just when he decided to take it in. He wasn't near a dealer in FL, and when he called the dealer in SC, they actually told him that it could wait based on the amount of oil it was leaking until he got home. So...that is what he did.

Sure maybe on the surface it is hard to understand when looking at a piece of paper. That is why a professional, like you I'm sure, would pick up the phone and call the person that is requesting the refund so he can receive all the pertinent facts. Especially when that person is specifically trying to work it out quickly since he doesn't want to be inconvenienced by having his time wasted.

If he didn't trust the report from New London, then he always had the right to call them and ask for an explanation. There are a lot of things that could of happened - I agree...it's just that none of them actually did.

On the issue of raising hell. I'm guessing that when a customer sends you an email and leaves a vmail requesting a call back, you would not respond by sending an argumentative email. Likewise, I would guess that when you leave a message for the GM at your dealership, you will receive a call back.

Again, could care less about $70; it's about a pattern of poor customer service and communication.
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      10-06-2011, 12:30 AM   #59
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I think you're over reacting just a little... was it really worth it to ruin such good relationship with your SA?
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      10-06-2011, 12:39 AM   #60
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Bobby Rahal

Took delivery of my first BMW two weeks ago and the buying experience couldn't have been any better. They were the furthest from me at 2 hours (A&L being closest at 45 min). I will return to Rahal's for any future purchase without hesitation.

Hope this can be helpful, even if not service related
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      10-06-2011, 01:31 AM   #61
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I understand that you terminated your relationship with said dealer, but did you take the $35.15?
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      10-06-2011, 02:07 AM   #62
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Not hulking, don't know why you think I am. I just don't think your analogy is good - honestly...there probably isn't a particularly nice way to say that.

With regard to the whole "their mind" thing. I told them the car leaked oil the entire time at a slow pace. Besides, it would take a pretty major impact to move the filter and cause a leak. There would be evidence of damage and none was noted by the other dealer. Likewise, my father in law is not a dishonest guy, so he would have told me and them. So what I'm saying is that their whole logic is totally flawed from the start, so I really have no interest in looking at it from their point of view when they make no sense.
your user name seems befitting. singletrack... as in you can only think of it a single way: yours. anytime there is a dealership involved and a customer... you have two perspectives. which is right and which is wrong is a moot point. give and take a little here and there. they have likely given you a little bit of a handout over the years where you didnt even realize it.

if you're going to write back again, you may as well consider both their perspective and yours as both are 50% of the argument.
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      10-06-2011, 03:52 AM   #63
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I feel for OP, but I have to say, they did offer a partial after the car was driven 5000+ miles. That tells me the dealership is on par. Most would just tell you to get bent. I have had the full range of dealer experiences and when I find one that is good, you gotta stick with them. I bet if the car wouldve bled out and the engine seized a few days after the service, they would have stepped up and repaired it and this thread would be about how awesome they were to you. Im just saying, dont look so deep into it- "they offered half, they must be guilty!" Nope, I think they were just trying to keep you happy especially after 5k... Id have taken the $35 and bought myself a fat Ribeye dinner...
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      10-06-2011, 08:07 AM   #64
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I feel for OP, but I have to say, they did offer a partial after the car was driven 5000+ miles. That tells me the dealership is on par.
Exactly. Now you have no money (not even an insulting $35, let alone your god-given right to $70), have to drive further to a different dealership you have no relationship with (10 minutes driving an M3 burns how much gas?) and so on. Principles are great and all but they can be expensive.

If I'm an SA and I see 5k miles on the car since the last service I'd feel like a pretty decent guy offering to split the cost on a problem *I never saw and have no first-hand proof of*.

I've been there dude. It's easier to get indignant and pissed and throw down the "customer is always right" card than it is to consider the big picture. Nothing good has ever come of the former for me, but the latter has definitely saved me a ton of time and stress.
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      10-06-2011, 08:28 AM   #65
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your user name seems befitting. singletrack... as in you can only think of it a single way: yours. anytime there is a dealership involved and a customer... you have two perspectives. which is right and which is wrong is a moot point. give and take a little here and there. they have likely given you a little bit of a handout over the years where you didnt even realize it.

if you're going to write back again, you may as well consider both their perspective and yours as both are 50% of the argument.
I'm sorry you don't like it when people disagree with you. I've yet to hear an explanation of how an oil filter can loosen without being hit by something. Their explanation isn't plausible.
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      10-06-2011, 08:34 AM   #66
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Exactly. Now you have no money (not even an insulting $35, let alone your god-given right to $70), have to drive further to a different dealership you have no relationship with (10 minutes driving an M3 burns how much gas?) and so on. Principles are great and all but they can be expensive.

If I'm an SA and I see 5k miles on the car since the last service I'd feel like a pretty decent guy offering to split the cost on a problem *I never saw and have no first-hand proof of*.

I've been there dude. It's easier to get indignant and pissed and throw down the "customer is always right" card than it is to consider the big picture. Nothing good has ever come of the former for me, but the latter has definitely saved me a ton of time and stress.
You really are missing it my friend. $10 in gas to avoid aggravation is a steal! Just for the record, I got "mean", if you want to call it that, after I couldn't get anyone on the phone and kept getting the same answer with no plausible explanation other than "well the car has 5k miles on it".

I didn't throw down the "customer is always right" card. Having worked in customer service for my entire career, I know that to not be the case.

Still waiting for an explanation of how the oil filter loosened itself.
Singletrack is online now   United_States
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