Okay, so I found something annoying about DCT

[Pointerman]

Originally Posted by Templar

You messed up, not the car.

When you floor it, you'll feel a "click" as the pedal goes all the way down. When you feel that click, one flip of the downshift will automatically match to the best gear. If you flip it more than once like you did, you'll go down even further and find yourself bouncing off the rev limiter.

Don't blame the DCT

I read the manual twice. Never noticed this particular feature. I did read how in manual mode it won't shift for you unless it needs to do so to maintain a valid engine speed when decelerating. Didn't see anything about automatic down shifts which is why I was annoyed and quite frankly it is a poorly executed feature. I shouldn't have to focus on whether my throttle has clicked or not when deciding on how to shift gears. That is a useless input and manual mode should allow me to decide what gear I want.

[mkoesel]

That's exactly what happened. However, I think the second paddle pull was actually ignored. The muti-gear downshift is meant to put you in the lowest gear that won't cause overrev. It will even drop you to 2nd at about 7700 RPM - you have to be on your toes.

Originally Posted by M3Now!

I'll bet you actually discovered the "skip downshift" ability noted above, where it responded to flooring it and a downshift by shifting down to the best gear. Your second paddle shift may have sent it down one more.

Cheers

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Serious

BTW in F1 (as in new ferrari's/mclaren mp4) if you hold the downshift paddle down while braking the engine will continue to blip down through the gears maintaining the highest possible RPM for maximum engine braking. This also allows you to skip gears on the road.

Yeah, that's an awesome feature, and we've discussed that possibility and others like it here before. I think BMW decided against it just to keep things simple. Truthfully though, with all the difference drivelogic modes, IMHO, it is a missed opportunity that they don't give us stuff like that in the higher, more aggressive ones. I notice the new M5 only has 3 Drivelogic modes instead of 5. I'm glad they simplified it, but stuff like the auto-downshift should be an option, maybe even something you could enable/disable in IDrive regardless of Drivelogic mode. Same could apply for the multi-gear downshift when accelerator is floored for that matter.


BTW, I don't know if they really do it for engine braking, so much as to keep you in the right gear should you suddenly need to or decide to accelerate.

[w00tw00t]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

And S5 is really annoying when downshifting under braking. The heavy throttle blip causes the car to surge a bit and then when the blip goes away the reduced gearing causes the car to brake more heaviliy. I want the braking help and that is why I downshifted in the first place, but trying to plan for the surge while braking for a corner is really annoying. You definitely need to get all your shifting done prior to the corner or that blip could send you wide.

<heavy sith voice> take your car to the track and you'll learn the true nature of the (DCT) dark side.... </heavy sith voice>

[digi]

Like some people have said, you need to get used to the little everyday "street" driving techniques to optimize its potential and use it efficiently. Yes it has its quirks and differences with manual, but to master it, you must learn around it so you can have a much more appreciated driving experience.

1. I'm usually in S4 mode myself. Like others have stated, a straight 7 to 2 shift is unnecessary. You have two options in this scenario. If you're lazy/occupied, do not down shift at all and the computer will do it for you as rpms allow. There might be a bit of a jerk depending on which S mode you're in. Second and more recommended option is to multi downshift while slowing down and right before the turn. For example, 7th at 50mph- start braking and immediately double tap for 5th, then maybe single tap for 4th, and just before turn double again for 2nd. Now the important thing is to prepare for the turn in advance, and the combination of double or single taps is at your discretion for the desired gear for the turn. All this will be more and more evident as you experience more driving.

2. Now in D mode, the go pedal is key here in toting the line between aggressiveness and efficiency, regardless of what level you're in. The sensitivity of the throttle input seems to be the difference between the different D modes. Slight pressure of throttle will determine quicker or slower gear changes(if at all) between D1-5. I rarely use D mode but if I do, I almost always use D3 because I feel the first 2 are useless and if I'm in D in the first place, I just want to cruise and not hold lower gears anyway. But if I feel the need to punch it a bit, it reacts quick enough for passing, etc. with a slightly more "heavy" press of the pedal. Again the throttle input/sensitivity is the main factor, and the adjustments could very well give you a close compromise of fast and efficient, but why not just use S mode for that? BTW, any D mode should always go into 7th. Just ease up on the throttle a bit and modulate accordingly.

[digi]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

I read the manual twice. Never noticed this particular feature. I did read how in manual mode it won't shift for you unless it needs to do so to maintain a valid engine speed when decelerating. Didn't see anything about automatic down shifts which is why I was annoyed and quite frankly it is a poorly executed feature. I shouldn't have to focus on whether my throttle has clicked or not when deciding on how to shift gears. That is a useless input and manual mode should allow me to decide what gear I want.

Reading owns you man. It is clear and legible in the manual, and it is not useless. Maybe you're more of a traditional manual guy?

[Pointerman]

Originally Posted by digi

Reading owns you man. It is clear and legible in the manual, and it is not useless. Maybe you're more of a traditional manual guy?

Not really. I haven't owned a manual in 10 years. My 62' MGA was my last manual about 10 years ago. I bought the DCT because it looked like it would behave like a manual when I wanted it to and like an auto when I wanted that. I really don't want automation when in manual mode. I'll live with it, but it was a surprising "feature" that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[M3Now!]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

Not really. I haven't owned a manual in 10 years. My 62' MGA was my last manual about 10 years ago. I bought the DCT because it looked like it would behave like a manual when I wanted it to and like an auto when I wanted that. I really don't want automation when in manual mode. I'll live with it, but it was a surprising "feature" that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I think you may have misunderstood. In manual mode:

1. If you give any throttle input (including flooring it) and don't touch the paddle, it won't change gear
2. If you floor it but don't push it through the detente (the "resistance point"), it will only downshift one click at a time through the paddles / shifter
3. If you slow down to too slow a speed in a higher gear, DCT will eventually downshift for you

The multi-downshift mode only happens if a) you floor it past the detente, and b) click the downshift paddle. DCT will then shift down multiple gears.

Cheers

[klammer]

I love having to press the paddles multiple times to downshift, makes me more "involved" Seriously people, just cause you don't know how to drive it or are unaware of it's idiosyncrasies due to limited seat time or experience does not mean the car has a problem. You bot modern racing technology and don't know how to drive it? This is not a normal street car, it's a wolf in sheeps clothing, spend some time with it and am sure she won't dissappointed

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

I read the manual twice. Never noticed this particular feature. I did read how in manual mode it won't shift for you unless it needs to do so to maintain a valid engine speed when decelerating. Didn't see anything about automatic down shifts which is why I was annoyed and quite frankly it is a poorly executed feature. I shouldn't have to focus on whether my throttle has clicked or not when deciding on how to shift gears. That is a useless input and manual mode should allow me to decide what gear I want.

You should have bought a 6MT... Starting to wonder if you're just trolling here to start yet another DCT vs. 6MT flame war... I found multiple instances in the manual where it says exactly what I described, so the fact that you didn't read thoroughly enough is obvious.

In Drive Mode:
Kickdown
For sudden acceleration maneuvers such as
passing, depress the accelerator past the resistance
point. This provides maximum acceleration.

Sport program and manual operation M/S:
Quick downshifting: Even in sequential mode,
you can skip over several gears in order to
achieve an optimum acceleration. To do so,
depress the accelerator past the resistance
point.

If I need to quickly accelerate, I'd much rather push the throttle down past the resistance point, flip the switch ONCE to downshift automatically to 2nd or 3rd or whatever gear it decides, instead of going one by one down to 2nd or 3rd from 7th. It has come in handy getting out of the way of morons stopped in the middle of the highway, or merging onto the highway from an on-ramp.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Alright.. we are at 711 miles on the new e93 M and our first experience ever with DCT. Had an 09 e90 M3 6MT, so this is an adjustment. So far, there is a lot to like about the tranny. I've been experimenting with the different shift speed settings, but here are a couple of annoying things.

1. In manual, I have no way to skip gears. Say for instance I am slowing down from a 55mph secondary road to turn into our neighborhood, I can't skip from 7 to 2 for the turn.. I must down shift through every single gear to get to second. In the 6 speed of course, one would just go from 6 straight into 2. Is there a way around this?

2. I haven't found an optimal D mode as far as shift aggressiveness and economy. I like the quick shifting in the highest mode, but then the transmission will not upshift to 7 once i'm cruising. It seems to be stuck in 6, even after I'm off the throttle. Any suggestions on this?

Looks like you are a man of order and precision (assuming you are a Pilot - based upon your avatar?). A man that likes to be in control at every turn and bend in the road.

The M-DCT is not one where you are in control as fine as a piece of engineering it is (and it is I can assure you - for I am a Engineer that recognizes such accomplishments). No the onboard computer is in full control as it would be if you put your sophisticated flying machine (in your case the jet) on auto pilot. You of course know very well what I mean.

So the DCT fellows here are not able to help you out at all ... sorry no only you yourself can step out from this slight misfortune (if that is what it is - I myself think it is not and if you adjust you might just get to like it) and get yourself one of these fine automobiles with 6MT then you will be in full control ... shifting from 6 to 3 then to 2 to take your normal turn into your homestretch neighbourhood street where some of your friendly neighbours will welcome you back home with a gentle wave

So good luck to you whatever you do to take that gentle turn into your final destination namely that home stretch you street where you live

PS. BTW I know the driving difference as well for my former m3 was a e46 having this fine SMG Transmission and I did get used to it after handing my first 5MT over to one of my loved ones ... so in time you might just get used to your M-DCT.

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Looks like you are a man of order and precision (assuming you are a Pilot - based upon your avatar?).

Uh.... yes, MD-11 Captain

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

So the DCT fellows here are not able to help you out at all ... sorry no only you yourself can step out from this slight misfortune

I have both, two of our cars are 6 speed manuals and now one is DCT. So, we have both options. Enjoying them both. The M3 is brand new, so we are just getting used to it, hence my original post... Wish I hadn't posted it now.. I just ended up starting a renewed tranny war

[dibxna]

i just leave mine in full drive logic every time i drive. power button on. when i get to say 40+ mph i manually shift up to 7th and then as i brake shift down or toss it back in auto mode depending on where and how im driving.

the one thing dct can do that 6mt cant is you can with the tap of your left fingers downshift faster than you could ever really accomplish on your own while depressing a clutch pedal and shifting manually.

definitely love both trannys but they each have their advantages and downsides as well.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by Serious

BTW in F1 (as in new ferrari's/mclaren mp4) if you hold the downshift paddle down while braking the engine will continue to blip down through the gears maintaining the highest possible RPM for maximum engine braking. This also allows you to skip gears on the road.

you're talking about the Ferrari 599 GTO... see the video of JC reviewing the GTO

[luis_m3]

Originally Posted by jphughan

I was going to say that until I re-read his post and realized he wants to skip gears downshifting while DEcelerating, which doesn't seem to be possible.

Oh, my bad then... my apologies. But he still needs to JK...

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Uh.... yes, MD-11 Captain



I have both, two of our cars are 6 speed manuals and now one is DCT. So, we have both options. Enjoying them both. The M3 is brand new, so we are just getting used to it, hence my original post... Wish I hadn't posted it now.. I just ended up starting a renewed tranny war

No worries ... it keeps life interesting I started a poll about the DCT and the MT and it looks like the percentage is 50/50 in this forum. Very interesting indeed.

Do enjoy your car(s)

[Pointerman]

Originally Posted by Templar

You should have bought a 6MT... Starting to wonder if you're just trolling here to start yet another DCT vs. 6MT flame war... I found multiple instances in the manual where it says exactly what I described, so the fact that you didn't read thoroughly enough is obvious.

Really, stating that I don't like a feature built into my car is trolling? I didn't buy a manual because I test drove one and thought the transmission was poorly designed. Not afraid to admit that I missed this feature in the manual. I just don't like the feature. Wish it was an option I could configure in the idrive; "Don't change gears when in manual mode unless my car is at risk of stalling". CHECK!

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

Really, stating that I don't like a feature built into my car is trolling? I didn't buy a manual because I test drove one and thought the transmission was poorly designed. Not afraid to admit that I missed this feature in the manual. I just don't like the feature. Wish it was an option I could configure in the idrive; "Don't change gears when in manual mode unless my car is at risk of stalling". CHECK!

You're the only person I know who has a DCT and doesn't like the fact that pushing the throttle past the resistance point and using ONE click of the downshift paddle automatically selects the best gear for you to drop to in order to get max acceleration.

Besides, if you had read the manual properly, you would have realized you can simply push the throttle down, but don't break the resistance point (which still provides a kick especially with the power button on) and downshift nice and slow, one at a time, until you get to whatever gear you're going to.

Boggles my mind how people find the dumbest shit to complain about.

[Pointerman]

Originally Posted by Templar

Boggles my mind how people find the dumbest shit to complain about.

Well, if I was looking for some dumb stuff to complain about I'd probably start with you.

Boggles my mind that some people can't accept that someone else might have an opinion different than them and express them on an internet bulletin board. I guess some people have a really hard time accepting that the entire world isn't exactly like them.

Moving on now.

[///M Ryder]

Originally Posted by M3Now!

In manual mode the M shouldn't respond to pedal input at all - if you floored it in 7th without paddle / shifter input, you would be accelerating in 7th.

I'll bet you actually discovered the "skip downshift" ability noted above, where it responded to flooring it and a downshift by shifting down to the best gear. Your second paddle shift may have sent it down one more.

Cheers

^^^this.......Phil

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Pointerman

Well, if I was looking for some dumb stuff to complain about I'd probably start with you.

Boggles my mind that some people can't accept that someone else might have an opinion different than them and express them on an internet bulletin board. I guess some people have a really hard time accepting that the entire world isn't exactly like them.

Moving on now.

The only one whining here is you. Whining about a function that is superior and a huge technological advance.

Why would you WANT it to be slower? Doesn't make sense.

The fact that you didn't even bother reading the manual makes it very clear. Either you're just a troll trying to find SOMETHING to complain about (which isn't even a valid complaint, you just don't know how to use the equipment), or you're just totally clueless.

Moving on is right, you have some learning to do. Go learn how to drive your car.

[Pointerman]

^^Tool