BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
EclipsisNA
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-02-2011, 10:35 PM   #23
mdosu
Banned
 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 8,517
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spmd11 View Post
ugh! LOL! I realize now I just set myself up! DCT boys! Help!!

lol! DCT FTL
mdosu is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-02-2011, 10:40 PM   #24
bmw_enthusiasm
Private First Class
 
Drives: M3 550i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MA

Posts: 126
iTrader: (0)

well..on a 6MT from 6 to 2nd...?
usually I'd do 6 to 3rd....for the turn...
anything below that you are breaking it...no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by spmd11 View Post
Alright.. we are at 711 miles on the new e93 M and our first experience ever with DCT. Had an 09 e90 M3 6MT, so this is an adjustment. So far, there is a lot to like about the tranny. I've been experimenting with the different shift speed settings, but here are a couple of annoying things.

1. In manual, I have no way to skip gears. Say for instance I am slowing down from a 55mph secondary road to turn into our neighborhood, I can't skip from 7 to 2 for the turn.. I must down shift through every single gear to get to second. In the 6 speed of course, one would just go from 6 straight into 2. Is there a way around this?

2. I haven't found an optimal D mode as far as shift aggressiveness and economy. I like the quick shifting in the highest mode, but then the transmission will not upshift to 7 once i'm cruising. It seems to be stuck in 6, even after I'm off the throttle. Any suggestions on this?
bmw_enthusiasm is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 12:48 AM   #25
dexx
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 05 LGT w/AVO380, '11 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: MA

Posts: 263
iTrader: (0)

Why I didn't get DCT, realizing things like this. Sequential shifts are very fast, but 6th->2nd or 6th->3rd takes time, much easier in 6MT. This happens all the time in real-world driving, cruise to hard acceleration. Anecdotes of Schumacher not needing this miss the point entirely. I certainly don't think "pentuple clicking" the paddle is fun or efficient.

Also DCT has slightly higher internal loss - the near instantaneous shift only saves an official 200ms off 0-60, I doubt that number is entirely the difference between a DCT shift and a human shift, likely it's much faster than a human, and 200ms is what's left of the difference with additional loss. *shrug*
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZP2 ZCV ZCW ZCP (for teh fastAr)
2005 LGT, AVO380 Turbo, a zillion other mods, ECU tuning by me.
dexx is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 02:14 AM   #26
Totti
Troll
 
Totti's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)

I hate it in my MT when I floor it and it doesn't change the gears automatically for me
__________________
BMW E92 M3 Coupe | Jerez Black | Fox Red Extended / Carbon Black Trim| Fully Loaded | Moonroof | 6MT | Gintani Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER
Use the stick like u would a manual. If that doesn't work, put it in D mode and put both hands at 10 and 2. If that doesn't work, just sit on your right hand.
Totti is offline   Italy
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 07:27 AM   #27
mkoesel
Moderator
 
Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

Posts: 13,553
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Now! View Post
You actually have to hold the left paddle in for a second or two, and FLOOR it (think you have to press through the detente) and it'll shift all the way down. Haven't tried it in D, only in M so can't say.
That's not true. You only need to have the accelerator pressed fully to the floor and then click the paddle as you normally would. There's no need to hold the paddle down at all.

Now, it may be true that if you hold the paddle down first and then floor it, it still does the multigear shift. But even if that works, keep in mind the transmission will actually have done two downshifts in this situation - one when you first pulled the paddle and one when you floored the accelerator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
well..on a 6MT from 6 to 2nd...?
usually I'd do 6 to 3rd....for the turn...
anything below that you are breaking it...no?
Not sure what you meant by breaking it. If you meant "breaking it loose", then that would all depend on how fast you are going and how you use the accelerator. If you meant "damaging it", then no, you cannot damage a transmission by downshifting, unless you are talking about an overrev (money shift). But that would depend on the speed in which you are going. You can travel at over 70mph in 2nd gear, remember. And of course, while you can overrev a manual, with DCT it won't let you shift into an overrev situation.
__________________
2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - FOR SALE - Engine failure at 95k miles.
Best offer takes it: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1#post16279561
mkoesel is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 07:58 AM   #28
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,268
iTrader: (0)

The only skip shift I do regularly is 4>6 after hard acceleration onto a freeway. Skip shifting on the way down like 6>3 seems to require double-clutching (and even if it doesn't I'd do it anyway to ease the synchros) and I just don't find myself needing it that often. Plus rev-matching on this engine sounds so sweet that I take every opportunity I can get to downshift.
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 08:01 AM   #29
Nelrock
Lieutenant
 
Nelrock's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oklahoma

Posts: 516
iTrader: (0)

If you're in 5th...and you want 2nd...1...2...3...really fast on the paddle.
I double and triple down all the time...just to hear the rev match.
It's incredibly fast and easy to do...so I don't understand all the DCT fail talk. Up until my '11, I've always owned manuals, but I love the DCT.
__________________

2011 E92 M3 | Melbourne Red | Black Novillo w/Carbon Leather Trim | M-DCT | Competition Package | Premium Package 2 | Convenience Package | Enhanced Premium Sound | Heated Front Seats
2004 E46 M3 | Silver Grey | - Retired
Nelrock is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 08:11 AM   #30
Daft
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 875
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.85]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
Oh boy not another DCT vs 6MT battle thread...
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 08:24 AM   #31
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Templar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

Posts: 1,816
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Just floor it until you feel the little click, then downshift. It'll drop down multiple gears for you. What happens after that is all up to you
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Templar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 08:25 AM   #32
luis_m3
Low Pro...
 
Drives: 2011 E90 AW
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Arizona

Posts: 965
iTrader: (0)

RTFM!!! because it IS possible
luis_m3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 08:37 AM   #33
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,268
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luis_m3 View Post
RTFM!!! because it IS possible
I was going to say that until I re-read his post and realized he wants to skip gears downshifting while DEcelerating, which doesn't seem to be possible.
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 09:28 AM   #34
M3Now!
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09 E93, Jerez Black
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 372
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That's not true. You only need to have the accelerator pressed fully to the floor and then click the paddle as you normally would. There's no need to hold the paddle down at all.
Just re-checked the manual, you are correct - no need to hold the paddle

Cheers
M3Now! is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 09:43 AM   #35
valeram
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin, OH

Posts: 1,341
iTrader: (0)

So the bottom line, the OP issues are not really issues. It is just the nature of the beast and knowing how to use and tame it.
valeram is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 09:49 AM   #36
Twinbo
First Lieutenant
 
Twinbo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 F150 Platinum
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, AB

Posts: 331
iTrader: (0)

Also, OP take into account you are only at 711 miles and the transmission does "learn" your driving style which takes some time. Eventually in D mode it should drive like you want it to because it will have adapted to your style. I'm not sure this will explain point #3 but here's to hoping.
Twinbo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2011, 09:50 AM   #37
spmd11
Captain
 
spmd11's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 M235i AW
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Louisville, KY

Posts: 830
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by valeram View Post
So the bottom line, the OP issues are not really issues. It is just the nature of the beast and knowing how to use and tame it.
Yes, I am excited to drive her today and work on my techniques!! LOL! Thanks for all the input guys! This forum is fantastic!! Sorry for the renewed 6mt vs DCT battle. That was not my intention. BTW, we have a 135i Coupe that is 6mt and a Mini Cooper S that is 6mt. I think that we will end up loving both transmissions for different reasons in this household. They are both fantastic. Now, what would be terrible, would be if BMW stopped offering the manual. I've taught all three of my boys how to drive manuals first, so that hopefully the joy of shifting is not lost on the next generation! ... ha!
__________________

2014 M235i, 2008 JB e90 M3, 2011 X5 5.0, 2011 335i Sport

Last edited by spmd11; 10-03-2011 at 04:06 PM.
spmd11 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:25 AM   #38
Pointerman
Second Lieutenant
 
Pointerman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Manteca, CA

Posts: 211
iTrader: (0)

Add one more annoying thing. Was heading home last night and was stuck behind a car doing about 55 (transmission in manual mode in 7th gear). Went to pass when legal and simultaneously stomped the gas and clicked the down paddle twice. The car read the peddle input first and then processed my down shifts and I was instantly in second gear bouncing off the rev limiter. I assumed the car wouldn't down shift automatically in manual mode. Kind of annoyed me.
Pointerman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:29 AM   #39
Pointerman
Second Lieutenant
 
Pointerman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Manteca, CA

Posts: 211
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
you'll get used to it. I'm always in S4... I almost never in 'D'. I let the car usually downshift for me when I know i'll be stopping completely. If I know I have to take off again, I'll go down manually. You'll learn to keep it in the right gear for optimal torque all the time. That way you don't have to row down the gears...

Also I stay in S4, even on the track... I feel like S5 is too harsh on the transmission (just my feeling, no data to back me up) and S4 vs S5 won't turn me into a F1 driver on the track.. so I stay in S4 ... on streets and on the track..
And S5 is really annoying when downshifting under braking. The heavy throttle blip causes the car to surge a bit and then when the blip goes away the reduced gearing causes the car to brake more heaviliy. I want the braking help and that is why I downshifted in the first place, but trying to plan for the surge while braking for a corner is really annoying. You definitely need to get all your shifting done prior to the corner or that blip could send you wide.
Pointerman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:31 AM   #40
Nine
Banned
 
Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

Posts: 1,925
iTrader: (2)

Who the F goes from 6 gear to 2nd???

Do yourself a favor and attend some driving school or M school, something.

What RPM are we talking about here?

Even driving 6MT, going 6mt to 2nd, still makes little sense to me, I can't even think of a situation that you would be cruising in 6th gear and then all of a sudden want to get into 2nd year...unless you are hyper-miling or something...???
Nine is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:34 AM   #41
M3Now!
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09 E93, Jerez Black
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 372
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointerman View Post
Add one more annoying thing. Was heading home last night and was stuck behind a car doing about 55 (transmission in manual mode in 7th gear). Went to pass when legal and simultaneously stomped the gas and clicked the down paddle twice. The car read the peddle input first and then processed my down shifts and I was instantly in second gear bouncing off the rev limiter. I assumed the car wouldn't down shift automatically in manual mode. Kind of annoyed me.
In manual mode the M shouldn't respond to pedal input at all - if you floored it in 7th without paddle / shifter input, you would be accelerating in 7th.

I'll bet you actually discovered the "skip downshift" ability noted above, where it responded to flooring it and a downshift by shifting down to the best gear. Your second paddle shift may have sent it down one more.

Cheers
M3Now! is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:41 AM   #42
mkoesel
Moderator
 
Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

Posts: 13,553
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointerman View Post
Add one more annoying thing. Was heading home last night and was stuck behind a car doing about 55 (transmission in manual mode in 7th gear). Went to pass when legal and simultaneously stomped the gas and clicked the down paddle twice. The car read the peddle input first and then processed my down shifts and I was instantly in second gear bouncing off the rev limiter. I assumed the car wouldn't down shift automatically in manual mode. Kind of annoyed me.
Yeah, you have to get used to it a little. Now that you know how it works, what you can do to avoid this situation is simply do your donwshifts prior to flooring it. That's how I usually do it when I am driving on surface streets and such. I typically only use the multi-downshift feature on the expressway, such as to go from 7th to 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Who the F goes from 6 gear to 2nd???

Do yourself a favor and attend some driving school or M school, something.

What RPM are we talking about here?
Relax a little. M school is great, and I agree everyone should attend a driving school, but driving on a track is completely different from driving on the street. In particular, on a track you are usually either speeding up or slowing down. On the street, you usually drive at a constant speed.

Quote:
Even driving 6MT, going 6mt to 2nd, still makes little sense to me, I can't even think of a situation that you would be cruising in 6th gear and then all of a sudden want to get into 2nd year...unless you are hyper-miling or something...???
Passing. As I said above, the car will go over 70 MPH in second gear. I'll add that 7th gear is perfectly usable at about 50mph (2k RPM or so). So, there are plenty of situations where one could be driving at a constant speed in traffic at 50mph in 6th gear or 7th gear, and then need to pass or speed up quickly, such as to merge into a faster moving lane or onto a faster highway or expressway. Dropping to second gear is exactly what you would do in that case.
__________________
2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - FOR SALE - Engine failure at 95k miles.
Best offer takes it: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1#post16279561
mkoesel is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:42 AM   #43
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Templar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

Posts: 1,816
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointerman View Post
Add one more annoying thing. Was heading home last night and was stuck behind a car doing about 55 (transmission in manual mode in 7th gear). Went to pass when legal and simultaneously stomped the gas and clicked the down paddle twice. The car read the peddle input first and then processed my down shifts and I was instantly in second gear bouncing off the rev limiter. I assumed the car wouldn't down shift automatically in manual mode. Kind of annoyed me.
You messed up, not the car.

When you floor it, you'll feel a "click" as the pedal goes all the way down. When you feel that click, one flip of the downshift will automatically match to the best gear. If you flip it more than once like you did, you'll go down even further and find yourself bouncing off the rev limiter.

Don't blame the DCT

__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Templar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2011, 10:44 AM   #44
Serious
1M advocate
 
Serious's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 RS4. 2012 S1000RR
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 750
iTrader: (0)

BTW in F1 (as in new ferrari's/mclaren mp4) if you hold the downshift paddle down while braking the engine will continue to blip down through the gears maintaining the highest possible RPM for maximum engine braking. This also allows you to skip gears on the road.
__________________
Serious is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST