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      09-23-2011, 05:14 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Smile Vishnu Procede PWM Meth on Supercharged Darth Maul M3

Hi guys,
Another Procede+PWM Meth update/case study. Yesterday, the owner of the "Darth Maul" M3 drove down from Canada to get a Procede/Meth kit combo installed. For those who aren't familiar with this car, it was a pretty well-known show car a few years ago. It was fitted with a bunch of upgrades including a G-Power supercharger WITH intercooler. Max boost pressure was around 6psi, give or take.

We did not make any changes to they pulleys/boost pressure. All we did was install a Procede+PWM Meth kit and spent a few runs re-tuning it. The car is intercooled (as you can see in the pics) and a LARGE 3 horsepower fan was placed in front of it during the pulls. Without methanol, logged IATs on the dyno were actually a little bit lower than what we see on the street.







First two runs, with perfectly cooled engine (with Procede and meth disabled):


Then we simply turned out the PWM meth system. Unlike traditional meth systems, this is metered with a high speed valve which is controlled by the Procede. No changes to actual tuning at this point. With meth on, we picked up some good gains:



Next, we tweaked AFR slightly and added a few deg of ignition advance (via Procede). And since the Procede controls the tune as well as the methanol system, this extra advance and revised AFR only comes into play when methanol is flowing (monitored by flow turbine tube generating a 5v digital signal via hall effects sensor). More power was picked up:



After a bit of cool down, we ran the original G-Power DME tune (Procede and Meth disabled) again. This way we aren't comparing runs on a cold engine (Run 1 and 2) to runs on a warm engine (all the rest). The delta was huge:



So there you have it. Adding a Procede+PWM Meth kit on a mildly boosted M3 that ALREADY has a intercooler was worth as much as 80WHP up top. With nice gains everywhere. Furthermore, the results were consistent and very resistant to heatsoak. Which makes the real-world performance delta even bigger. I have plenty of datalogs that I will post up later.

This is the first Sc'd m3 I've tuned but from what I can tell, it's begging for more boost. Unfortunately, the owner wasn't able to get hands on a new pulley in time. But soon....

This is the same Procede/pwm meth combo that we used in Zoebs NA m3 last week. The only difference is that we are using a higher flowing valve and three 1pm nozzles instead of two. They were mounted in the cone shaped silicon coupler just upstream of the plenum. Underneath so you can't even see them.

Cheers,
shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 09-23-2011 at 08:55 PM.
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      09-23-2011, 05:25 PM   #2
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Congrats! I'm excited to see this in operation....on my car!
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      09-23-2011, 05:51 PM   #3
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Amazing !
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      09-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #4
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No surprises here! Great work.
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      09-23-2011, 06:23 PM   #5
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I was always a turbo guy but this is absolutely nasty! The top end on this beast must be insane.
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      09-23-2011, 06:37 PM   #6
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This is proving to be very interesting and I like it!
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      09-23-2011, 06:46 PM   #7
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Never cease to amaze me Shiv. Excellent work. I dying to know what it would make with some more boost.
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      09-23-2011, 07:17 PM   #8
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Good work guys!
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      09-23-2011, 07:31 PM   #9
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Shiv = Brilliant
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      09-23-2011, 07:51 PM   #10
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      09-23-2011, 08:15 PM   #11
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so what your saying is that without changing a tune on a 6psi G-power SKII your gaining about 32whp?

what are the temp. like where you are?

and what does this kit look like?

what 70% of meth is added? mixed with water???
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      09-23-2011, 08:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
so what your saying is that without changing a tune on a 6psi G-power SKII your gaining about 32whp?

what are the temp. like where you are?

and what does this kit look like?

what 70% of meth is added? mixed with water???
I use a 70/30 meth/water mix. The kit looks pretty invisible. The Procede is hidden in the DME compartment/box. The meth pump is mounted on a bracket under the hood. A custom-fit harness connects the procede to the meth hardware. I'm not don't with the custom brackets yet so I'd rather not post up pics of prototype stuff. But once they are all laser cut and powder-coated, i'll post up complete kit pictures. The whole kit is easy to install. Expect to spend about 1hr. Don't have to get the car on a lift or run any lines under the car as it re-uses the factory windshield water bottle. You don't have to take off the bumper either. The whole install is done under the hood. Easy to remove as well if you have any warranty work.

Yes, it picked up approx 30whp with no active changes to tuning. The DME simply ran it's ignition timing targets and the engine ran a cooler, denser air charge. For example, without meth, IATs climbed from 35degC to 55degC. WITH METH, they DROPPED from 35degC to 15degC. Some pretty big passive gains right there.

I'd be very interested in running this set-up on a non-intercooled set-up since they seem to be so popular. I'd imagine bigger relative gains that what we saw today since the temp drop would be so much more significant. Plus, we could undoubtedly run a higher boost pulley since the meth would perform better than any intercooler upgrade.

Cheers
shiv
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      09-23-2011, 08:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I use a 70/30 meth/water mix. The kit looks pretty invisible. The Procede is hidden in the DME compartment/box. The meth pump is mounted on a bracket under the hood. A custom-fit harness connects the procede to the meth hardware. I'm not don't with the custom brackets yet so I'd rather not post up pics of prototype stuff. But once they are all laser cut and powder-coated, i'll post up complete kit pictures. The whole kit is easy to install. Expect to spend about 1hr. Don't have to get the car on a lift or run any lines under the car as it re-uses the factory windshield water bottle. You don't have to take off the bumper either. The whole install is done under the hood. Easy to remove as well if you have any warranty work.

Yes, it picked up approx 30whp with no active changes to tuning. The DME simply ran it's ignition timing targets and the engine ran a cooler, denser air charge. For example, without meth, IATs climbed from 35degC to 55degC. WITH METH, they DROPPED from 35degC to 15degC. Some pretty big passive gains right there.

I'd be very interested in running this set-up on a non-intercooled set-up since they seem to be so popular. I'd imagine bigger relative gains that what we saw today since the temp drop would be so much more significant. Plus, we could undoubtedly run a higher boost pulley since the meth would perform better than any intercooler upgrade.

Cheers
shiv
So most of us have ESS, Gintani, and AA kits on our cars.

I think ESS and Gintani uses a water to air cooling (will it make a difference? better or worse?)

AA and Gpower uses a air to air so I guess the results will be similar? the Gpower intercooler is very large in size as well.

also where are the 3 nozzals installed?

my car is pushing 15psi right now and I'm just using an AEM meth injection for cooling only but I don't think the car is cooling down enough because our weather in Taiwan is very humid (90%+)and hot!

so basically if I can get my car down cooler I think the will be even better at 15psi it should make?.....60whp difference???
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      09-23-2011, 09:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
So most of us have ESS, Gintani, and AA kits on our cars.

I think ESS and Gintani uses a water to air cooling (will it make a difference? better or worse?)

AA and Gpower uses a air to air so I guess the results will be similar? the Gpower intercooler is very large in size as well.

also where are the 3 nozzals installed?

my car is pushing 15psi right now and I'm just using an AEM meth injection for cooling only but I don't think the car is cooling down enough because our weather in Taiwan is very humid (90%+)and hot!

so basically if I can get my car down cooler I think the will be even better at 15psi it should make?.....60whp difference???
It's hard to estimate the gains without knowing what kind of IATs you are seeing now. If you are running 15psi (!!), i'm assuming they must be very high. In that case, a properly mapped meth kit will help you. How much better will it work than your current meth kit, I can't say. In my experience PPS meth kits leave a lot to be desired. Especially when you are using them with a tune that doesn't have meth failsafe.
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      09-23-2011, 10:48 PM   #15
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Thanks for the kind words guys. I should have some more kit info in the upcoming week. But if there is anyone, who is willing to make the drive to the SF Bay area, is interested in a Procede/PWM meth kit combo (either NA or supercharged), feel free to email me at shiv@vishnutuning.com. I'm looking to get more dyno results for testing purposes and the more types of modifications I see, the better for everyone

Cheers
shiv
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      09-23-2011, 11:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It's hard to estimate the gains without knowing what kind of IATs you are seeing now. If you are running 15psi (!!), i'm assuming they must be very high. In that case, a properly mapped meth kit will help you. How much better will it work than your current meth kit, I can't say. In my experience PPS meth kits leave a lot to be desired. Especially when you are using them with a tune that doesn't have meth failsafe.
so what is a PPS meth kit? I don't understand this.

well my tune is based on a non meth

so that is why I'm wondering if I switch a set up will it help and about how much.

lets just say the IAT's are the same but I'm just running higher boost

what kind of differences will we see.

and if they are 3 places where meth is injected where are they located to reach its cool max. potential?
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      09-23-2011, 11:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Thanks for the kind words guys. I should have some more kit info in the upcoming week. But if there is anyone, who is willing to make the drive to the SF Bay area, is interested in a Procede/PWM meth kit combo (either NA or supercharged), feel free to email me at shiv@vishnutuning.com. I'm looking to get more dyno results for testing purposes and the more types of modifications I see, the better for everyone

Cheers
shiv

Grrrrr

Amazine results Shiv. This is just plain awesome.
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      09-24-2011, 12:23 AM   #18
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Grrrrr

Amazine results Shiv. This is just plain awesome.
Don't worry... we have kit waiting for you too
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      09-24-2011, 12:28 AM   #19
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Shiv - Will the Proceed be a piggyback that controls the meth kit as well as delimiting the top speed governor and deleting the cat inefficiency codes?
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      09-24-2011, 12:30 AM   #20
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Shiv - Will the Proceed be a piggyback that controls the meth kit as well as delimiting the top speed governor and deleting the cat inefficiency codes?
Yes, yes and yes
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      09-24-2011, 12:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Yes, yes and yes
Any way of deleting tuner/shadow codes?
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      09-24-2011, 01:21 AM   #22
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Any way of deleting tuner/shadow codes?
Yes. The Procede can read and clear all codes, shadow or otherwise. You don't even need a laptop to do this. You can do it through the command center which you can navigate through with your cruise control stalk.

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