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      09-16-2011, 03:39 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxL View Post
Totally agree on the first statement, but just as much disagree on the second. Look what progress Mustang made! I had a chance to drive 2006 version, and it was utter disappointment even compared to a Civic.

Also, take into account that all manufacturers are innovating in a very different direction now - how to keep up with more strict fuel economy standards and how to make all this nice stuff so that it still costs the same number of now much less valuable dollars... So tough to blame them here. Audi is still a disappointment - I had very high expectations for RS5 and totally expected it to beat M3, given the price and time they had. Looks like it will have trouble beating their own previous gen RS4
The progress I was referring to was specifically in the area of performance and driver involvement. I agree a 2012 Mustang Boss is a much better car than an 2006 GT, but even the boss hasn't really pushed the envelope from the 4 year old M3. By now I would have expected to see something that truly moved the game on from the E9X M3, like the RS4 did to the E46 M3 for instance.

However like you said, advancement and innovation is focused nowadays solely into areas of efficiency and comfort even for the most focused of sports cars. And this is what disappoints me.
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      09-16-2011, 03:56 PM   #90
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So why didn't they use the Shelby 500. Isn't that closer in costs? How does it compare to the others?
All these cars had a normally aspirated V8. Shelby is in a different engine/power class.
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      09-16-2011, 04:04 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobe View Post
This is the first comparo/review of the Boss where it didn't have a distinct advantage in 1/4 mile and track times. The only performance advantage the M3 has is MDM mode. Traction/tires must have been a huge factor (RS5 didn't do better in a hole shot?), or the track was bumpy and the live axle was struggling. Also isn't it the only 6 speed in the lot? It's the lightest car in the lot, with 2nd most HP. Something isn't adding up. Maybe the guy tracking it kept the RPM's bouncing off the limiter and didn't use the torque. Who knows.

The magazine gives a hint of anti-Boss biased. It starts off talking about the boss and the second sentence is something about dinking the boss for not having the creature comforts. Duh. Then it goes on to talk about the M3 for like 6 paragraphs.

I LOVE my M3 but I'm also a realist. The Boss has an edge in weight and power, some rediculous lateral G that eclipses the M3, and is purpose built for the track. Every magazine that has tracked it has lauded over it. It placed like 4th in the best drivers car. Driving feel, sure, give a nod to the M3.
So let me compare two other cars to give an analogy:

The Nissan GTR and the Porsche 911 Turbo S.

Relatively speaking, the GTR is about cheap speed and bang for the buck. The Porsche isn't really any faster but gives the same level of performance and much more refinement in almost every aspect of its execution. The price ratio between the GTR and 911 is also very similar to the Stang and loaded up M3.

So even if performance can be considered "equal" in an overall sense, the M3 gives you a far higher level of refinement, style, and class in all aspects of its design and engineering.
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      09-16-2011, 06:24 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
So let me compare two other cars to give an analogy:

The Nissan GTR and the Porsche 911 Turbo S.

Relatively speaking, the GTR is about cheap speed and bang for the buck. The Porsche isn't really any faster but gives the same level of performance and much more refinement in almost every aspect of its execution. The price ratio between the GTR and 911 is also very similar to the Stang and loaded up M3.

So even if performance can be considered "equal" in an overall sense, the M3 gives you a far higher level of refinement, style, and class in all aspects of its design and engineering.

Well stated! Frankly, if my SOLE concern was speed/handling for the lowest price, there is no better car than the new GTR. Hands down, that car is blazing fast in its execution.......BUT I'd still rather have an M3.

P.S. Did you guys see the newest GTR on Top Gear the other day? It now ranks at the top of their test track lap times list.......even faster than a Zonda R! Whoa!
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      09-16-2011, 07:09 PM   #93
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All of these cars are within a few tenth of a second from each other, how does that translate to a regular Joe like me on the track and street? Or do we just need a justification for spending 70K.
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      09-16-2011, 07:42 PM   #94
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Couple of things I take away from this article:

1) Audi really needs to get the R8 DNA to trickle downstream. How many autojournalists is it going to take before VW realizes that people in the market for cars like these want driver involvement and not understeer, vague feedback, etc? You're not Cadillac, stop acting like it.

2) Road test after road test has shown the plain-jane Mustang GT to be just as quick if not quicker than the M3 in a straight line. The Boss has 30+ HP and stickier tires. I smell something fishy.

3) If Mercedes can ever figure out how to incorporate the BMW fun factor in their cars, BMW is in big trouble. Those AMG engines simply shit all over anything that BMW has cooked up recently.
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      09-16-2011, 07:43 PM   #95
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"Shows how evenly matched the four cars are from a standing start they are separated by just 0.3sec at 100mph." -EVO

That's nice. But let's look at 120mph. The Merc has .6sec on the M3 compared to 1.1sec ahead of the Audi and a whopping 1.3sec on the BOSS!!! OUCH!
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      09-16-2011, 08:52 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobe View Post
This is the first comparo/review of the Boss where it didn't have a distinct advantage in 1/4 mile and track times. The only performance advantage the M3 has is MDM mode. Traction/tires must have been a huge factor (RS5 didn't do better in a hole shot?), or the track was bumpy and the live axle was struggling. Also isn't it the only 6 speed in the lot? It's the lightest car in the lot, with 2nd most HP. Something isn't adding up. Maybe the guy tracking it kept the RPM's bouncing off the limiter and didn't use the torque. Who knows.

The magazine gives a hint of anti-Boss biased. It starts off talking about the boss and the second sentence is something about dinking the boss for not having the creature comforts. Duh. Then it goes on to talk about the M3 for like 6 paragraphs.

I LOVE my M3 but I'm also a realist. The Boss has an edge in weight and power, some rediculous lateral G that eclipses the M3, and is purpose built for the track. Every magazine that has tracked it has lauded over it. It placed like 4th in the best drivers car. Driving feel, sure, give a nod to the M3.
Every American car mag has loved it, but every mag in the world still hates it. I'm sorry, but there's a lot of bias there, on both sides.

But how fast the Boss is around Laguna Seca... it better be faster there, since it was developed there.
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      09-16-2011, 09:06 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
If Mercedes would put some bigger tires on the C63 from factory, it would smoke all those cars in the comparo.
...And if my Aunt had balls.........she'd be my uncle.

"If only Mercedes.... ...had slicks....and a ...dual clutch....and ...better suspension....and a ... LSD (back when)...etc; etc.

Factory to Factory ///M > C63
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      09-16-2011, 10:46 PM   #98
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Mustang looks F-U-G-L-Y
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      09-16-2011, 11:02 PM   #99
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Sweet...
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      09-17-2011, 04:50 AM   #100
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2011 M3  [3.37]
What I have learned over the years is that whenever someone's favourite car (or the car they want to win) doesn't win a comparo test then all of a sudden the magazine is "biased" or there is something "fishy" or there are a myriad of other excuses. And these excuses mainly from folks who have never even driven all of the other cars in a meaniingful way.
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      09-17-2011, 04:56 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plokij View Post

this article is crap. any car guy without badge consciousness looking for a toy would opt for the boss.
And you know from your extensive experience in both cars (waiting for the "I have driven all of them in aggressive test drives" comment) So is every review that doesn't favour the car you like or think to be better just a "crap" review? I love how people always blame the magazine, the reviewer, the weather, the location of the sun in the sky... The review must be fixed, I know more than the reviewer, there is a hidden agenda/bias/pay-off...

All of the cars in the comparison (except, maybe, the RS5) are very capable cars and would be so close it comes down to personal preference. To say that any "car guy looking for a toy would choose the Boss" is a load of crap because that won't always be the case, badge aside. The current M3 has been more dominant against its competition in comparison tests than almost any other car in the last 4 years or so... oh wait, it is a conspiracy of all of the car magazines and TV shows on both sides of the Atlantic. Funny, if it were a true "pro BMW" conspiracy, why do all of their other cars get rated relatively poorly?

You like the Boss, it's a great car, but it isn't necessarily a better performance car than the M3 even if YOU think it is.
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      09-17-2011, 10:46 AM   #102
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Hmm, not sure why the M3 is being accused of being fat and bloated, it's way lighter than the RS5 or AMG, and the Ford is only a little lighter.

This is a bit of a strange comparison for a UK mag, so few people import American cars it's more the kind of thing that you make up your mind you're going to do because you want American muscle - not because of road test results, and not because it's a sensible option - the crazy thing is, I'm sure if the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro were RHD and officially imported, they'd start to be considered a legitimate option, and probably sell quite well - the whole grey import scene, associated costs and pitfalls, and steering wheel on the wrong side thing, will put off 90% of general buyers, and only 'fans' of such cars take the risk.
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      09-17-2011, 11:30 AM   #103
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I've driven both the M3 and the RS5. To me they seem like totally different cars that almost belong in different categories. The M3 obviously has a great feel and is still the gold standard in the segment, but the RS5 felt like a refined spaceship for the road. It just goes wherever you point it, no drama about it. It seems like a car you would just take on the autobahn and GO, whereas the M3 seems like something you would toss around a mountain road instead, though I'm sure both would be fun in either situation.

In any case, I wouldn't mind adding any of these to my garage.
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      09-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plokij View Post
confirms my theory that the latest m3 is generally a poseur car.
So let me get this strait. You're posting on an M3 board about how M3 owners are poseurs while you drive a fucking station wagon?

I also have to say how I dig your list your "mods" in your sig; as if I'm gonna read them and think, "wow, that's one sick station wagon."
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      09-17-2011, 06:20 PM   #105
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I have no love for Fords but...
Anyone else wonder why they didn't test (instead of the 302) a GT500? And it would still be way cheaper than the M3.

(Yes, I saw the argument about normally aspirated vs supercharged yada yada yada. For every car buyer that cares about this detail, there are many more who just want the hp.)
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      09-17-2011, 09:37 PM   #106
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love the M3....so much for the much hyped Boss 302. Also, the Mustang in that side rear shot next to M3 looks like a huge boat. The Mustang just looks plain ugly from side and rear profile. The front does not offend me and looks sort of OK.

Also, Pl0kij needs a brain check ....for thinking all those cars are gay.
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      09-17-2011, 09:40 PM   #107
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Mustang with solid real axle? we are about to roll in 2012 ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      09-18-2011, 02:12 AM   #108
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///M3 pwns and it's 5 years old. The new model will deeestroy all the comps.
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      09-18-2011, 03:24 AM   #109
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Quote:
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I am die hard BMW and even more die-hard M. I must say though that Ford disgust-ang is very appealing to me.
+100000000000 lol

BMW FTMFW!!!
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      09-18-2011, 11:27 AM   #110
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YAWN......this is getting boring!
we dont need another comparo against the M3.....nothing beat it then and nothing beats it now...especially anything coming from Audi!
I cant wait for the next gen M3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps: anyone seen Footie around??? poor little guy must be in hiding again!
I told you Footie...your RS5 Sherman tank lost ANOTHER comparo....I think that is 9 straight losses....but who's counting!
I think the media nneds to change the way they do comparos so each manufacture has a chance....here are my suggestions:

Toyota vs Nissan vs Honda vs Hyundai vs Kia
Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge
Lambo vs Ferrari vs Porsche
Lexus vs infiniti vs Acura
BMW vs God
Audi vs Tank vs 18 wheeler carrying concrete slabs

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