BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-05-2011, 11:10 AM   #1
shksman
Private
 
Drives: 2011 X5 3.5i,2008 e92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: WA

Posts: 62
iTrader: (0)

M-DCT drivers~ do you guys put N when you make full stop?

One of my buddy who drive Acura TL, he puts N every time he make full stop.
He is saying, it saves some gas and helps transmission.
How's this sounds to you?
shksman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #2
gthal
Colonel
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 2,895
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
No I don't put mine in neutral... would only be extra wear/tear on the tranny (maybe not much) taking it in and out of gear. When you put it in neutral, you can hear the DCT coming out of gear (which means there is mechanical action in the transmission somewhere) and that, to me, would likely cause more issues long term than simply leaving it as is. I'm not an expert though so maybe I'm wrong.

When the car comes to a stop, the clutch is not engaged anyway (i.e. like having the clutch depressed on a 6MT) so I don't see how that saves gas vs. neutral. You are effectively in neutral but, again, I'm no expert.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 11:20 AM   #3
EuroTrip
BMW FAN
 
EuroTrip's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT ZCP Mineral Wt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 687
iTrader: (5)

your friend is delusional. All cars will idle the same in neutral as in drive. The only thing I could understand him thinking maybe that holding the brake somehow fights the engine from moving forward...but i honestly don't think that uses gas. Your M3 DCT will not roll forward when releasing the brake... That is,unless he is talking about going neutral using the brakes to stop the car instead of the engine. Plus, stop trying to get gas mileage out of your M3. You paid $1300 gas guzzler fee, so no matter what you will always be behind.

The new 2011 M3's have auto start stop feature...which cuts the motor on full stop. Unfortunately, the break even point of it saving you gasoline vs. the engine running is being stopped for more than 80 seconds. There aren't many lights that long where I live. I really only use it when I go through a drive-thru.
EuroTrip is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #4
geneatals
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,202
iTrader: (2)

no
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL
geneatals is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 02:50 PM   #5
Daft
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 878
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.85]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
I put into N sometimes when I see a redlight way up ahead then just coast all the way to it. It coasts much easier in N then if left in gear. I do this just cuz I'm lazy to keep my foot on the peddle not to save gas/tranny.
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #6
Chowster
E60_to_E90
 
Chowster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Nope. I don't either. There's also a safety issue of not having the car in gear to accelerate out of an unexpected situation or emergency.
__________________
2011.5 E90 Dinan M3, SS II, M-DCT, EDC, M Drive. Winter setup 220M w/ 255/275 Blizzaks
Performance Mods: Dinan St.1 suspension, exhaust, intake; TTPs; BPM St.II, DCT, servo tunes
Cosmetic Mods: OEM CF splitters, mirrors, center console, spoiler; Arkym CF diffuser; LUX; tint
Chowster is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 06:15 PM   #7
gthal
Colonel
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 2,895
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowster View Post
Nope. I don't either. There's also a safety issue of not having the car in gear to accelerate out of an unexpected situation or emergency.
Good point and one often overlooked.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 03:07 AM   #8
SEI
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jakarta

Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
since we are on this topic. is it alright to neutral it all the way down a mountain? (did this recently). was on neutral for probably 15km
__________________

now: 2008 335i (E92), 2011 M3 (E92), X3 35i (F25),2012 E63 AMG (W212)
gone:2009 GTR, 2007 335i (E93) 2004 M3 (HPF stg 3), 2008 Civic Lx, 2007 Z4M Roadster, 2001 Gembala GT550, 2007 CLS 55, 2007 STI, 2004 M3
SEI is offline   Indonesia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 02:34 PM   #9
lve2xlr8
Captain
 
lve2xlr8's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 e92 M3 MW ZCP DCT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: OC

Posts: 817
iTrader: (7)

When you come up to a light and make a full stop and take your foot off the brake it doesn't go anywhere, the dct is essentially in neutral so there's no point in putting it in N.
__________________
'11 M3
'00 M5 - Sold
'08 335i w/m3 conversion - Sold
lve2xlr8 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #10
sawzall
Major
 
sawzall's Avatar
 
Drives: A Car
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto

Posts: 1,269
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 911S  [5.00]
2011 911 GT3 RS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEI View Post
since we are on this topic. is it alright to neutral it all the way down a mountain? (did this recently). was on neutral for probably 15km
It shouldn't cause any damage to the transmission.
sawzall is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 07:01 PM   #11
gthal
Colonel
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 2,895
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEI View Post
since we are on this topic. is it alright to neutral it all the way down a mountain? (did this recently). was on neutral for probably 15km
Coasting in neutral burns more gas than allowing the car to coast in gear... there was another recent thread on this. Also, the risk is there if you needed to accelerate for some reason but was out of gear.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 10:32 PM   #12
Chowster
E60_to_E90
 
Chowster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEI View Post
since we are on this topic. is it alright to neutral it all the way down a mountain? (did this recently). was on neutral for probably 15km
15km In neutral? Wow. More importantly, why?
__________________
2011.5 E90 Dinan M3, SS II, M-DCT, EDC, M Drive. Winter setup 220M w/ 255/275 Blizzaks
Performance Mods: Dinan St.1 suspension, exhaust, intake; TTPs; BPM St.II, DCT, servo tunes
Cosmetic Mods: OEM CF splitters, mirrors, center console, spoiler; Arkym CF diffuser; LUX; tint
Chowster is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 10:46 PM   #13
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,327
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
On my 330 6sp, I put the car in neutral when stopped which saves wear on the throw out bearing.

Not sure if that is the case with the DCT.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 11:39 AM   #14
SEI
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jakarta

Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowster View Post
15km In neutral? Wow. More importantly, why?
I was running out of gas and decided to neutral it all the way down.. Worked actually...
__________________

now: 2008 335i (E92), 2011 M3 (E92), X3 35i (F25),2012 E63 AMG (W212)
gone:2009 GTR, 2007 335i (E93) 2004 M3 (HPF stg 3), 2008 Civic Lx, 2007 Z4M Roadster, 2001 Gembala GT550, 2007 CLS 55, 2007 STI, 2004 M3
SEI is offline   Indonesia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #15
SEI
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jakarta

Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Coasting in neutral burns more gas than allowing the car to coast in gear... there was another recent thread on this. Also, the risk is there if you needed to accelerate for some reason but was out of gear.
Dunno about that... In neutral I'm at 800 rpm the whole way down. But if I kept it in gear there will be resistance when I move and i was going down at abt 20-30 km/h so that woulda been like 2000 rpm.
__________________

now: 2008 335i (E92), 2011 M3 (E92), X3 35i (F25),2012 E63 AMG (W212)
gone:2009 GTR, 2007 335i (E93) 2004 M3 (HPF stg 3), 2008 Civic Lx, 2007 Z4M Roadster, 2001 Gembala GT550, 2007 CLS 55, 2007 STI, 2004 M3
SEI is offline   Indonesia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 07:13 PM   #16
gthal
Colonel
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 2,895
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEI View Post
Dunno about that... In neutral I'm at 800 rpm the whole way down. But if I kept it in gear there will be resistance when I move and i was going down at abt 20-30 km/h so that woulda been like 2000 rpm.
It isn't about RPM. When you coast in gear the fuel injectors shut off and no fuel is delivered to the engine... none. The engine continues to run because it is connected to the wheels through the engaged transmission and the wheels are turning... the whole concept of inertia. In neutral, the fuel injectors do continue to supply fuel because the transmission isn't turning the engine.

So... in neutral... burning gas. In gear and coasting... no gas is provided to the engine.

There was a whole thread on this where some people didn't understand this and lots of folks who know a lot more about engines than me corrected everyone.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2011, 06:02 AM   #17
SEI
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jakarta

Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Ok, was thinking you were right about the coasting thing so I tried it out. No matter what gear I'm at the car will slow itself down due to engine breaking.. So I think neutral would still save more fuel since it will let you coast at speed for longer instead of the car slowing itself down..
__________________

now: 2008 335i (E92), 2011 M3 (E92), X3 35i (F25),2012 E63 AMG (W212)
gone:2009 GTR, 2007 335i (E93) 2004 M3 (HPF stg 3), 2008 Civic Lx, 2007 Z4M Roadster, 2001 Gembala GT550, 2007 CLS 55, 2007 STI, 2004 M3
SEI is offline   Indonesia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2011, 06:51 AM   #18
bobbyd1961
Banned
 
Drives: 2009 M3 sedan LeMans Blue
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: new jersey

Posts: 2,411
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shksman View Post
One of my buddy who drive Acura TL, he puts N every time he make full stop.
He is saying, it saves some gas and helps transmission.
How's this sounds to you?
ridiculous
bobbyd1961 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2011, 09:36 AM   #19
FVM3
Major General
 
FVM3's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 m3, f30 328i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 5,711
iTrader: (2)

No
FVM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST