2010 vs. 2011/2012 M3

[MEMMEZZ]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Hey guys, I have a serious question - after many futile attempts, I've pretty much given up trying to order a new M3 for the time being, the whole experience has been a nightmare honestly. That being said, there are a few 2010s in my area that have decent specs and priced fairly. My question is how much performance would I be losing going from an '11/12 e92 with comp pkg and CF roof to a '10 e92 (one of them had CF roof and one has a sunroof)?

If I can get a great deal on one of the '10s should I go for it? Or should hope an '11/12 comes along at some point with the specs I'm looking for?

MY2011 went up to 450bph and with ZCP you can get 465 to the wheels.
...depending on the dyno of course.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by eisenb11

I've heard from a dealer that there is a new program starting Sept 5. He said that they were supposed to adjust the rates to increase sales... but being that these numbers came out yesterday, I'm thinking that that dealer is going to be in for a surprise when he see's what's coming his way.

These must be his "better" numbers because I can't imagine they'd use these for only 5 days. Yuck.

I heard that as well...

By the way, PenFed is offering 2.49% for 60 months and 2.74% for their Balloon finance (their version of BMW Select) for MY2012 and even used cars so at least there is an alternative.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by Technic

By the way, PenFed is offering 1.9% for 60 months and 2.74% for their Balloon finance (their version of BMW Select) for MY2012 and even used cars so at least there is an alternative.

From my experience with their website yesterday, 60 month financing for the BMWs is actually 2.49%, because PenFed considers it some kind of "premium" car. Obviously 2.49% is still much better than 4.9%

Maybe we should start a new topic just for financing.. or wait and see what Sept 5/6th brings from BMWFS.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by SamS

From my experience with their website yesterday, 60 month financing for the BMWs is actually 2.49%, because PenFed considers it some kind of "premium" car. Obviously 2.49% is still much better than 4.9%

Maybe we should start a new topic just for financing.. or wait and see what Sept 5/6th brings from BMWFS.

Sorry... it was 1.9% for 48 months, 2.49% for 60 months.

[PhillyNate]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Yeah, I actually had a deal in place to order a 2011 and my dealer screwed it up entirely. Im not sure if Melbourne Red is rare or something, but I've only been able to fine a handful of MR 2011s throughout the country. That's what has me looking at the 2010s.

I don't care for the MR color and it seems that when I was looking every other car was MR. So keep looking. You've got approximately a little less than a year to buy new and I'm sure several MR examples will come off lease. Good luck.

[Nelrock]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

Yeah, I actually had a deal in place to order a 2011 and my dealer screwed it up entirely. Im not sure if Melbourne Red is rare or something, but I've only been able to fine a handful of MR 2011s throughout the country. That's what has me looking at the 2010s.

MR is a gorgeous color...especially with the CF roof.

If you're going to spend that kind of money...get exactly what you want.
Give a re-order a try. I went through multiple orders (my first car was wrecked in transit), and it took a little over 5 months to get it, but it was WELL worth it.

[eisenb11]

I didn't really like MR until I actually saw one. Looks nicer in real life - pictures don't do it justice. They're very rare around here as I've only seen one - and it's at work, so I get to see it almost every day. Almost all of them here are AW. SSII, which I went with, is also pretty rare, but less than MR as I see them from time to time.

[EuroTrip]

A nightmare? How so? Ordering is usually pretty straightforward for my clients.

That being said...It could only be a nightmare for one of two reasons; or possibly both in the case of my most dreaded customer.

1. You are shopping too many dealerships for an invoice deal. You are ordering a $65k+ M3...this is not a Honda. A BMW Client Advisor's job is to "advise" you of the colors, options, features of the car. We don't do this for free and selling a car at invoice usually means $150 commission!(before tax) This is usually after anywhere between 6 and 10 hours of work per car. Frankly that is not worth our time, so as soon as a typical salesperson knows you're and invoice guy...he will not spend the extra time because you refuse to pay for his time and expertise.

2. You are one of those guys who changes his mind every time he wakes up in the morning. Not only that, but you don't know boundaries of communication via email or phone...calling 4-5 times per day and 5-6 emails a day is not socially acceptable. First you want Alpine, then you see a Mineral, then you want Alpine again cause you don't wanna pay $550. Then you find out you can get Black/Red seats so your Fox Red interior now changes.

I am not pointing a finger at you specifically...just putting the word out there for all you guys putting BMW salespeople through the ringer for $100 commission. I realize the information is out there for all to see but what ever happened to a salesman selling the most wonderful car on the planet to an excited buyer? The internet has killed the car business...and its really sad to see. Pay the money people, see what an amazingly great experience $2000 over invoice gets you.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by EuroTrip

A nightmare? How so? Ordering is usually pretty straightforward for my clients.

That being said...It could only be a nightmare for one of two reasons; or possibly both in the case of my most dreaded customer.

1. You are shopping too many dealerships for an invoice deal. You are ordering a $65k+ M3...this is not a Honda. A BMW Client Advisor's job is to "advise" you of the colors, options, features of the car. We don't do this for free and selling a car at invoice usually means $150 commission!(before tax) This is usually after anywhere between 6 and 10 hours of work per car. Frankly that is not worth our time, so as soon as a typical salesperson knows you're and invoice guy...he will not spend the extra time because you refuse to pay for his time and expertise.

2. You are one of those guys who changes his mind every time he wakes up in the morning. Not only that, but you don't know boundaries of communication via email or phone...calling 4-5 times per day and 5-6 emails a day is not socially acceptable. First you want Alpine, then you see a Mineral, then you want Alpine again cause you don't wanna pay $550. Then you find out you can get Black/Red seats so your Fox Red interior now changes.

I am not pointing a finger at you specifically...just putting the word out there for all you guys putting BMW salespeople through the ringer for $100 commission. I realize the information is out there for all to see but what ever happened to a salesman selling the most wonderful car on the planet to an excited buyer? The internet has killed the car business...and its really sad to see. Pay the money people, see what an amazingly great experience $2000 over invoice gets you.

i've yet to meet a CA that knows more about the car than i do
it's bad you feel this way , as the way i see it, dealers are on the way out
in most industries, the middle men are being chopped out
no offense, but a dealer really serves no purpose outside ofthe servicing part
they add very little to the whole deal
all the info i need is rarely gotten from the dealer
and the build your own on the BMWUSA website is much more accurate than most SAs
only funtion left i really need the dealer for is to make payment and a location where i can pick up my new car

[EuroTrip]

Originally Posted by kmarei

i've yet to meet a CA that knows more about the car than i do
it's bad you feel this way , as the way i see it, dealers are on the way out
in most industries, the middle men are being chopped out
no offense, but a dealer really serves no purpose outside ofthe servicing part
they add very little to the whole deal
all the info i need is rarely gotten from the dealer
and the build your own on the BMWUSA website is much more accurate than most SAs
only funtion left i really need the dealer for is to make payment and a location where i can pick up my new car

Unfortunately, you have not met the right CA. Believe it or not, there are 3 CAs here at my dealer that could teach you quite a bit...including how to drive the M3. (one is a world renowned racing instructor)

I agree with some of what you said, however. It would be interesting to see how the evolution of the business takes its course.

The BMWUSA build your own website is not more accurate because it is usually about 2 weeks behind the curve. A CA who actually cares about option-related bulletins from the factory will be more accurate than the site which is probably outsource managed. Can you build a 2012 M3 on there? I can. Can you build a 2012 Z4 28i with the N20 engine on there? I can.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by EuroTrip

Unfortunately, you have not met the right CA. Believe it or not, there are 3 CAs here at my dealer that could teach you quite a bit...including how to drive the M3. (one is a world renowned racing instructor)

I agree with some of what you said, however. It would be interesting to see how the evolution of the business takes its course.

The BMWUSA build your own website is not more accurate because it is usually about 2 weeks behind the curve. A CA who actually cares about option-related bulletins from the factory will be more accurate than the site which is probably outsource managed. Can you build a 2012 M3 on there? I can. Can you build a 2012 Z4 28i with the N20 engine on there? I can.

i was speaking about the local dealers in the DC area
i am sure there are sill some SAs who actually enjoy their job, and want to learn. but if i had to make an educated guess, i'd say the good ones are about 10% at most.
and believe it or not, i asked my SA to price match an offer i had received online
the best he could do was within $700 from the online dealer
and i told him, i actually enjoy working with you and i told him i'll pay the extra
$700 because you earned it.
and i have no regrets.
most SAs are still of the box mover category of salesmen
you get some cars on your lot that you try to sell.

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by EuroTrip

A nightmare? How so? Ordering is usually pretty straightforward for my clients.

That being said...It could only be a nightmare for one of two reasons; or possibly both in the case of my most dreaded customer.

1. You are shopping too many dealerships for an invoice deal. You are ordering a $65k+ M3...this is not a Honda. A BMW Client Advisor's job is to "advise" you of the colors, options, features of the car. We don't do this for free and selling a car at invoice usually means $150 commission!(before tax) This is usually after anywhere between 6 and 10 hours of work per car. Frankly that is not worth our time, so as soon as a typical salesperson knows you're and invoice guy...he will not spend the extra time because you refuse to pay for his time and expertise.

2. You are one of those guys who changes his mind every time he wakes up in the morning. Not only that, but you don't know boundaries of communication via email or phone...calling 4-5 times per day and 5-6 emails a day is not socially acceptable. First you want Alpine, then you see a Mineral, then you want Alpine again cause you don't wanna pay $550. Then you find out you can get Black/Red seats so your Fox Red interior now changes.

I am not pointing a finger at you specifically...just putting the word out there for all you guys putting BMW salespeople through the ringer for $100 commission. I realize the information is out there for all to see but what ever happened to a salesman selling the most wonderful car on the planet to an excited buyer? The internet has killed the car business...and its really sad to see. Pay the money people, see what an amazingly great experience $2000 over invoice gets you.

Neither of those are the case actually. To sum it up - I placed an order and put a deposit down on a 2011, the dealer said everything was squared away at that point. They then came back to me a week later and stated that the car had went to a build status before they could input my specifications. However, they said that they would go ahead and get another allocation, which after a few days they said they had acquired. About two weeks went by with no response, so I followed up again - the CA stated that the other dealership had backed out of giving them the allocation and there were none left that they could acquire. So now we were almost into August, so I had to look into a 2012. For some reason I decided to stick with this dealer who assured me they would make things right and give me a good deal on the '12. They said they would be getting their allocation in Sep and at that point I would be first in line to order. Well low and behold, I got a call earlier this week from the CA saying that they aren't getting an allocation for Sep and may not have one until Oct/Nov. It was at that point that I asked for my deposit back and started looking used.

Sorry if that was long winded, but it was a terrible experience. And honestly after actually typing all of that out, it makes me even more mad. I'm borderline thinking about contacting BMW about the whole ordeal.

[Nelrock]

Originally Posted by EuroTrip

Unfortunately, you have not met the right CA. Believe it or not, there are 3 CAs here at my dealer that could teach you quite a bit...including how to drive the M3. (one is a world renowned racing instructor)

I agree with some of what you said, however. It would be interesting to see how the evolution of the business takes its course.

The BMWUSA build your own website is not more accurate because it is usually about 2 weeks behind the curve. A CA who actually cares about option-related bulletins from the factory will be more accurate than the site which is probably outsource managed. Can you build a 2012 M3 on there? I can. Can you build a 2012 Z4 28i with the N20 engine on there? I can.

I think you missed his point...and thats...an incredibly high number or people are selling these cars...and they know very little about them.
Many of the buyers are enthusiasts...and know exactly what they want.
I walked in...I knew exactly what I wanted...exactly the way I wanted it. I was up to speed on the current bulletins. So, I don't think $150 would be too bad for the 10 min it took the CA to enter it in for me.
I'm sorry $150 is beneath you. Sorry you'd rather sit around and drink coffee than make $150. Statements like that remind me of the 1st dealership I contacted...the one that told me they didnt have to negotiate because "these cars sell themselves, we don't have to".
Over in Germany, you walk into a BMW dealership, and treatment and quality of service you receive is phenominal. Stateside...dealerships act like you owe them a debt of gratitude just to be allowed to enter the building.

[PhillyNate]

Originally Posted by Nelrock

I think you missed his point...and thats...an incredibly high number or people are selling these cars...and they know very little about them.
Many of the buyers are enthusiasts...and know exactly what they want.
I walked in...I knew exactly what I wanted...exactly the way I wanted it. I was up to speed on the current bulletins. So, I don't think $150 would be too bad for the 10 min it took the CA to enter it in for me.
I'm sorry $150 is beneath you. Sorry you'd rather sit around and drink coffee than make $150. Statements like that remind me of the 1st dealership I contacted...the one that told me they didnt have to negotiate because "these cars sell themselves, we don't have to".
Over in Germany, you walk into a BMW dealership, and treatment and quality of service you receive is phenominal. Stateside...dealerships act like you owe them a debt of gratitude just to be allowed to enter the building.

Well said. I'm the same kinda customer. 10 minutes for about $400 they got out of me. I'm generous.

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by Nelrock

MR is a gorgeous color...especially with the CF roof.

If you're going to spend that kind of money...get exactly what you want.
Give a re-order a try. I went through multiple orders (my first car was wrecked in transit), and it took a little over 5 months to get it, but it was WELL worth it.

Yeah, I think I'm going to check with a few other dealers to see if I can order one relatively soon. If that doesn't work out, then hopefully the 2010 is still there for me at that point.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by EuroTrip

A nightmare? How so? Ordering is usually pretty straightforward for my clients.

That being said...It could only be a nightmare for one of two reasons; or possibly both in the case of my most dreaded customer.

1. You are shopping too many dealerships for an invoice deal. You are ordering a $65k+ M3...this is not a Honda. A BMW Client Advisor's job is to "advise" you of the colors, options, features of the car. We don't do this for free and selling a car at invoice usually means $150 commission!(before tax) This is usually after anywhere between 6 and 10 hours of work per car. Frankly that is not worth our time, so as soon as a typical salesperson knows you're and invoice guy...he will not spend the extra time because you refuse to pay for his time and expertise.

2. You are one of those guys who changes his mind every time he wakes up in the morning. Not only that, but you don't know boundaries of communication via email or phone...calling 4-5 times per day and 5-6 emails a day is not socially acceptable. First you want Alpine, then you see a Mineral, then you want Alpine again cause you don't wanna pay $550. Then you find out you can get Black/Red seats so your Fox Red interior now changes.

I am not pointing a finger at you specifically...just putting the word out there for all you guys putting BMW salespeople through the ringer for $100 commission. I realize the information is out there for all to see but what ever happened to a salesman selling the most wonderful car on the planet to an excited buyer? The internet has killed the car business...and its really sad to see. Pay the money people, see what an amazingly great experience $2000 over invoice gets you.

The problem is that customers can have an amazingly great (sales) experience for $500 over invoice as well.

Yeap, the Internet is a bitch.

[jeff4598]

I could not find anyone in NJ who knew a thing about the car. CA's are like lawyers: most of the time you know what to do and are brighter than they are but they hold the magic keys that turn the engine to get what you want. That said it's not the CA's fault they have a pointless job and arguing re $300 when the friggin sales tax is $4500 and we are willing to pay a gas guzzler tax strikes me as trite.

[blinkme323]

The dealer just came back to me on one of the 2010s with an insane deal, I'm really torn on what to do now...

[z335is]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

The dealer just came back to me on one of the 2010s with an insane deal, I'm really torn on what to do now...

What price are they offering, if you don't mind me asking? I'm also thinking about going used.