BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-01-2007, 01:57 PM   #1
1198r
Private First Class
29

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nova


Posts: 171
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 M3  [0.00]
Brake info from UK M3 sales brochure

Managed to get a sales brochure last weekend and reading through info it details the following information under safety and control and wanted to know if this is new for E92 M3 or not. Word for word from brochure:

"Dynamic Stability Control Plus(DSC+) comprising: Anti-lock braking system (ABS), Automatic Stability Control (ASC), brake drying, brake fade compensation, brake pre-tensioning, cornering brake control (CBC), dynamic traction control (DTC), electronic brake force distribution (EBD), engine drag torque control (MSR), hill start assistant, soft stop"

Any of this on the E46?
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2007, 02:20 PM   #2
JEllis
Brigadier General
135

 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma


Posts: 4,743
iTrader: (4)

My E36 has ABS and ASC. EBD sounds new and similar to equipment available to Porsche owners.

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2007, 04:27 PM   #3
M3_2010
Private
0

 
M3_2010's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 CiC
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NYC


Posts: 55
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1198r View Post
Managed to get a sales brochure last weekend and reading through info it details the following information under safety and control and wanted to know if this is new for E92 M3 or not. Word for word from brochure:

"Dynamic Stability Control Plus(DSC+) comprising: Anti-lock braking system (ABS), Automatic Stability Control (ASC), brake drying, brake fade compensation, brake pre-tensioning, cornering brake control (CBC), dynamic traction control (DTC), electronic brake force distribution (EBD), engine drag torque control (MSR), hill start assistant, soft stop"

Any of this on the E46?
E46 has ASC, ABS, DTC, EBD.....
Soft stop can't be any good..... I like to stop my own car.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2007, 10:56 PM   #4
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
United_States
223

 
Drives: 2015 M4 Coupe, 2012 ML350
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR


Posts: 7,610
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_2010 View Post
E46 has ASC, ABS, DTC, EBD.....
Soft stop can't be any good..... I like to stop my own car.
E46 also has CBC. Brake drying, hill start assistant, soft stop & MSR are new, I believe. Agree on soft stop, whatever that is. I think I can modulate my stops just fine so my passengers' heads don't bob.
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2015 M4 Coupe - Silverstone/Sakhir/CF
2012 ML350

Last edited by GregW / Oregon; 06-02-2007 at 10:47 AM.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 12:49 AM   #5
E36325is
Second Lieutenant
Hong Kong
9

 
Drives: 1M coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hong Kong


Posts: 220
iTrader: (0)

Yes just got my 335 coupe, soft stop is absolutely awful, makes it harder to modulate the brakes, need to find a way to turn it off if possible!
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 01:37 AM   #6
lucid
Major General
United_States
174

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Does someone have the exact technical specs on this soft stop thing? I can guess what it is trying to accomplish, but I want to know exactly how it is implimented. If it is what I am thinking, it sounds horrible.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 02:55 AM   #7
E90Fleet
Major General
South Africa
250

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa


Posts: 8,077
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Does someone have the exact technical specs on this soft stop thing? I can guess what it is trying to accomplish, but I want to know exactly how it is implimented. If it is what I am thinking, it sounds horrible.

It works great
Some just need to get used to it


As you are about to stop, it slightly releaves the pressure on the rear brake pads and stops the car more gently.

Its designed to take 50% of the modulation needed away ( so if you dont modulate slightly, peoples heads wil still "bob" slightly )

Most E9x have it, and most E6x
__________________
Nominated: Member of the Year, Most Contributing Member


BMW if you are reading, I need a job
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 03:02 AM   #8
13eastie
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
29

 
13eastie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London


Posts: 563
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet View Post
It works great
Some just need to get used to it


As you are about to stop, it slightly releaves the pressure on the rear brake pads and stops the car more gently.

Its designed to take 50% of the modulation needed away ( so if you dont modulate slightly, peoples heads wil still "bob" slightly )

Most E9x have it, and most E6x
Thanks for the explanation.

While I will leave to my passengers to comment as whether I might benefit from the "soft-stop", I think it sounds a million miles away from the "Ultimate Driving Machine". More like technology for its own sake.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 03:22 AM   #9
E90Fleet
Major General
South Africa
250

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa


Posts: 8,077
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
More like technology for its own sake.
Its a standard feature on almost all BMW DSC systems since 2005.

It makes it a better drive for a huge amount of drivers that cant modulate properly
__________________
Nominated: Member of the Year, Most Contributing Member


BMW if you are reading, I need a job
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 03:41 AM   #10
lucid
Major General
United_States
174

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

I don't mind the DSC. Actually, it might have saved my ass once. With regards to the soft stop thing: all I can say is that I hope there is way to turn it off on the M3.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 07:00 AM   #11
E36325is
Second Lieutenant
Hong Kong
9

 
Drives: 1M coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hong Kong


Posts: 220
iTrader: (0)

I wonder if I change to an aftermarket brake set like Brembo or AP will it disable this awful soft stop thing?
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 10:40 AM   #12
replicat
Lieutenant
18

 
Drives: 40MPG
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern California


Posts: 516
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E36325is View Post
I wonder if I change to an aftermarket brake set like Brembo or AP will it disable this awful soft stop thing?
Most likely not, because that system is probably control in the BCM (Braking Control Module) And works throught the hydraulics...a set of Gran Turismos won't fix it..

I will be a Master Tech for BMW when this car is out, so I'll figure a way to get it controlled or overridden.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2007, 11:06 AM   #13
00o00
Private
United_States
9

 
00o00's Avatar
 
Drives: its comming...
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT


Posts: 69
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to 00o00
why in hell would they fit a break modulation system on a car that is suppost to be designed for proformance driving im talking about soft stop, i don't see the reasoning behind this, we have gotten along fine for years without it, now i can understand it on the normal 3 series, but an ///M thats just dumb


does the M5 have this?
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 10:52 AM   #14
mofomat
Captain
United Kingdom
33

 
mofomat's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 (E92)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Maastricht, NL


Posts: 996
iTrader: (0)

People are getting their knickers in a twist about something which is hardly even noticeable. I have it in my E90. I didn't have it in my E46 M3. I never even notice it to be honest.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 11:02 AM   #15
lucid
Major General
United_States
174

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
People are getting their knickers in a twist about something which is hardly even noticeable. I have it in my E90. I didn't have it in my E46 M3. I never even notice it to be honest.
If it is not something that is noticed, than why the hell is there? The whole point of the system is to make a difference in how the car comes to a stop, and that should be noticable. So, I have to question your perception. Or, maybe it has to do with the way you drive--maybe you like soft stops to begin with...
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 11:42 AM   #16
mofomat
Captain
United Kingdom
33

 
mofomat's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 (E92)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Maastricht, NL


Posts: 996
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
If it is not something that is noticed, than why the hell is there? The whole point of the system is to make a difference in how the car comes to a stop, and that should be noticable. So, I have to question your perception. Or, maybe it has to do with the way you drive--maybe you like soft stops to begin with...
I can assure you that my perception is fine.

Maybe when something does it's job properly you don't notice it. How about a referee in a sports game? You only notice them when they make a mistake.


Basically, if you don't try to modulate the brake when you come to a stop, then you will notice it. If you do, and just drive normally, then you don't need it to take over for you.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 11:44 AM   #17
seven_227
Lieutenant
United Arab Emirates
35

 
seven_227's Avatar
 
Drives: AW e92 335i
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dubai


Posts: 590
iTrader: (0)

In my e92 335i when im in stop and go traffic the brakes are so jerky !
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 12:04 PM   #18
lucid
Major General
United_States
174

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
I can assure you that my perception is fine.

Maybe when something does it's job properly you don't notice it. How about a referee in a sports game? You only notice them when they make a mistake.


Basically, if you don't try to modulate the brake when you come to a stop, then you will notice it. If you do, and just drive normally, then you don't need it to take over for you.
Sorry, I don't buy the anology. A better anology might be with ABS or something. And when ABS kicks in, I notice it. When any electromechanical system interferes with handling, I notice it, and so should you if you are somewhat in touch with what the car is doing is my point.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 12:13 PM   #19
mofomat
Captain
United Kingdom
33

 
mofomat's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 (E92)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Maastricht, NL


Posts: 996
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Sorry, I don't buy the anology. A better anology might be with ABS or something. And when ABS kicks in, I notice it. When any electromechanical system interferes with handling, I notice it, and so should you if you are somewhat in touch with what the car is doing is my point.
ABS has a much more aggressive intervention. Of course you're going to notice that, like I do.

However, you don't notice soft stop unless you drive in a particular way. So if you don't attempt to stop the car smoothly, then you will notice it. If you drive normally, and try to drive smoothly, then you will not notice soft stop because it won't need to intervene.

However, the brake assist can be annoying. If you tap the breaks quickly but with little force, it can confuse the system and 'think' you want full force breaking, which can be jerky.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 01:14 PM   #20
lucid
Major General
United_States
174

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

I don't know what you mean by "normal" driving. Normal by what standard?...Well, maybe I've judged the road conditions, and for whatever reason I want to come to an abrupt stop. Then the dumbass technology kicks in, and I'll be cursing at the car. I'm fine with these kind of interventions when safety is an issue. But clearly, in this case, safety is not an issue. And then like you are saying, with any such system, there are always problems with recognizing events, and making false interventions, which is even more annoying. The previous poster seems to be complaining about the same thing.

Anyway, I'll have to drive the thing and then I can really let it loose on the idiot who came up with the idea. BMW engineers are great with engines, suspensions, and other core systems, and that's where they should focus their energy. Stuff like this sounds purely annoying and is somewhat typical of BMW's orientation with unnecessary technologies...
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #21
mofomat
Captain
United Kingdom
33

 
mofomat's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 (E92)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Maastricht, NL


Posts: 996
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I don't know what you mean by "normal" driving. Normal by what standard?...Well, maybe I've judged the road conditions, and for whatever reason I want to come to an abrupt stop. Then the dumbass technology kicks in, and I'll be cursing at the car. I'm fine with these kind of interventions when safety is an issue. But clearly, in this case, safety is not an issue. And then like you are saying, with any such system, there are always problems with recognizing events, and making false interventions, which is even more annoying. The previous poster seems to be complaining about the same thing.

Anyway, I'll have to drive the thing and then I can really let it loose on the idiot who came up with the idea. BMW engineers are great with engines, suspensions, and other core systems, and that's where they should focus their energy. Stuff like this sounds purely annoying and is somewhat typical of BMW's orientation with unnecessary technologies...
I think you've jumped to some conclusions about what you think 'soft-stop' actually is, and what it feels like, otherwise you wouldn't be dwelling on things like "normal driving" and "road conditions".

The road conditions are pretty irrelevent really. It is a minor aspect of the driving experience and therefore I go back to my original point that people are getting their knickers in a twist about something which isn't a big issue.

Just to make it clear so you know what soft-stop is. When you apply the foot brake to come to a stop, in a normal car unless you ease off very slightly on the brake, the car will come to a jerky stop. Soft-stop allows you to apply the same constant brake pressure, and for the very last fraction of a second it will release the brakes allowing you to come to a smooth stop. It is hardly noticeable.

The road conditions are irrelevent. You can still come to an abrupt stop in the same way as you would without 'soft-stop'.

I find it bizarre that you are complaining about something which you haven't even experienced yet!


I tell you. You could drive it and you wouldn't even know it was there.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2007, 02:35 PM   #22
yves
New Member
Germany
1

 
Drives: BMW Z3, BMW X5
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Germany


Posts: 23
iTrader: (0)

They will have it for a reason they dont make extra costs when they could have left it out they are a company like any other trying to make as much profit as possible. I drive a 6 series often and you can easy do abrupt stops. and tested alto of BMW lately and never noticed anything trying to make it stop sofetly. just forget about you will not notice it anyways.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST