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      09-03-2011, 02:49 PM   #23
jphughan
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Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
Just one personal difference. I drove an M3 at a BMW driving school and purposely tried with and without sport servotronic steering and MDM. I don't feel I'm losing anything without the MDrive, for my wants/needs. I'm planning to keep the last naturally aspirated M3 for as long as it'll last, don't want the iDrive now and don't want the tech to look like a Commodore 64 when it's outdated.
Yeah, that Commodore 64 effect (nice name!) is definitely going to be a problem. I mostly got iDrive because I tried using the infotainment system in non-iDive cars and it was just miserable for me -- Bluetooth phone, Bluetooth audio, and iPod management all took so much more work. I just really like the interface for controlling audio and other settings for the car. I rarely use the actual navigation.

You also can't get Enhanced Premium Sound without iDrive, and from what I'd read the base audio system isn't very good. Never heard it myself, but I can attest that the Enhanced system is amazing.
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Last edited by jphughan; 09-03-2011 at 03:04 PM.
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      09-04-2011, 12:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
lol -- seriously though, since when has lack of ZCP made the M3 a Civic? The consensus seems to be that it offers no real benefit (doesn't add power, doesn't remove weight, barely tweaks suspension, DSC, and EDC, and the other available 19" rims are forged rather than cast like the ZCP 19s). It's certainly nowhere near as significant as the E46 ZCP. I suspect that only pro racing drivers would ever notice the difference -- same goes for the moonroof. I got mine because CF didn't look good with LMB, the car is quieter on the road, and I like to be able to open my roof.

Still a funny post though.
yeah, just messing around, there's been a fair share of stupid debates that these features or lack of these features or variations of the M3 make sit less of an M3.
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      09-04-2011, 07:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
lol -- seriously though, since when has lack of ZCP made the M3 a Civic? The consensus seems to be that it offers no real benefit (doesn't add power, doesn't remove weight, barely tweaks suspension, DSC, and EDC, and the other available 19" rims are forged rather than cast like the ZCP 19s). It's certainly nowhere near as significant as the E46 ZCP. I suspect that only pro racing drivers would ever notice the difference -- same goes for the moonroof. I got mine because CF didn't look good with LMB, the car is quieter on the road, and I like to be able to open my roof.

Still a funny post though.
People will always try to justify their own choices, which is fine, of course, but that doesn't mean others will feel the same way. IMO, ZCP is a tremendous value.

It is a $2500 option.

EDC alone is a $1000 option, which means you are bascially paying $1500 for the wheels, the just slightly (and perfectly IMO) lowered suspension, and the remapped stability programming.

The wheels are some of the best looking wheels available, and are very easy and relatively inexpensive to replace if they get damaged. And, yes, while they weigh 1-2 lbs more than their type 220 counterparts, they are also wider and have a more favorable weight distribution. The suspension is lowered just enough so that I have no desire to spend $3k on an aftermarket set-up.

So, for me, ZCP adds just enough to the car not to make me want to mod the wheels and suspension, and as such provides a tremendous financial savings.

Additionally, ZCP will actually add to the value of your car at resale while a modded suspension will most certainly decrease the value. Then you are left with the problem of trying to sell your aftermarket wheels too.

So, if you don't like the ZCP wheels, for wahtever reason, or want a more aggressive suspension, then by all means, go for it, but you simply can not deny that ZCP offers a lot for the asking price.
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      09-04-2011, 10:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by VVG View Post
People will always try to justify their own choices, which is fine, of course, but that doesn't mean others will feel the same way. IMO, ZCP is a tremendous value.

It is a $2500 option.

EDC alone is a $1000 option, which means you are bascially paying $1500 for the wheels, the just slightly (and perfectly IMO) lowered suspension, and the remapped stability programming.

The wheels are some of the best looking wheels available, and are very easy and relatively inexpensive to replace if they get damaged. And, yes, while they weigh 1-2 lbs more than their type 220 counterparts, they are also wider and have a more favorable weight distribution. The suspension is lowered just enough so that I have no desire to spend $3k on an aftermarket set-up.

So, for me, ZCP adds just enough to the car not to make me want to mod the wheels and suspension, and as such provides a tremendous financial savings.

Additionally, ZCP will actually add to the value of your car at resale while a modded suspension will most certainly decrease the value. Then you are left with the problem of trying to sell your aftermarket wheels too.

So, if you don't like the ZCP wheels, for wahtever reason, or want a more aggressive suspension, then by all means, go for it, but you simply can not deny that ZCP offers a lot for the asking price.
Oh I absolutely agree on the value. With EDC at $1000 and the 220 19s at $1250 you're paying $250 for some remapped software and adjusted suspension -- not bad. Granted that assumes the two sets of 19s are valued identically and they're probably not the same cost, but as you say there are pros and cons to each setup. I got EDC separately as well as the 220s and avoided ZCP purely because I liked the 220 19s better (looks and forged vs cast) and didn't feel I was getting anything I cared about for that extra $250, though if I'd liked the ZCP wheels better I would have sprung for the package anyway -- I wasn't too concerned about resale impact. I'm more amazed at people who seem to believe that it makes all the difference performance-wise.

Btw, I'm surprised to hear you say that the lowering was just enough to keep you from going aftermarket. Is 10mm/1cm really that big a deal? Most people I talk to say unless you see a ZCP parked right next to a non-ZCP you can't see a difference in ride height.
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      09-04-2011, 10:45 AM   #27
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With the M button you also get the Sport Plus for the throttle setting, which is just a tad bit more aggressive than the Sport setting. Not a big deal really.
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      09-04-2011, 03:19 PM   #28
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With the M button you also get the Sport Plus for the throttle setting, which is just a tad bit more aggressive than the Sport setting. Not a big deal really.
Too bad I don't have the M Drive.....would be nice to set it to "aggressive" with just one push of the button.
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      09-04-2011, 03:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Oh I absolutely agree on the value. With EDC at $1000 and the 220 19s at $1250 you're paying $250 for some remapped software and adjusted suspension -- not bad. Granted that assumes the two sets of 19s are valued identically and they're probably not the same cost, but as you say there are pros and cons to each setup. I got EDC separately as well as the 220s and avoided ZCP purely because I liked the 220 19s better (looks and forged vs cast) and didn't feel I was getting anything I cared about for that extra $250, though if I'd liked the ZCP wheels better I would have sprung for the package anyway -- I wasn't too concerned about resale impact. I'm more amazed at people who seem to believe that it makes all the difference performance-wise.

Btw, I'm surprised to hear you say that the lowering was just enough to keep you from going aftermarket. Is 10mm/1cm really that big a deal? Most people I talk to say unless you see a ZCP parked right next to a non-ZCP you can't see a difference in ride height.
I honestly don't think the M3 needs much done to it in terms of mods unless you really want to build it into a different level of car entirely. The slight lowering of the ZCP is just enough to make a difference for me of whether to go ftermarket or not. Likewise, I added 12mm spacers to my ZCP wheels and it was just the touch the car needed to give it a little more of an aggressive stance such that I won't need to go for a full custom wheel like an HRE P40 or alike.

My big issue is going to be finding an exhaust mod to get the sound I want. I really don't want it any louder at all. I just want a slightly lower and more exotic tone. Anyway, researching is all part of the fun too. But again, I don't think the car needs a radical change here either.
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      09-04-2011, 04:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Too bad I don't have the M Drive.....would be nice to set it to "aggressive" with just one push of the button.
That's generally considered the least important of the M Drive options, as most people feel the sport plus throttle setting is too touchy and, if I'm not mistaken, can buck.

Most people on here think M Drive is mostly worth it for the sport servotronic and MDM.
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