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      09-02-2011, 11:52 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by mylydiamy View Post
Thanks. My daughter is the most important thing. As much as I love her be with her all the time, I know she would be better of being her mother because of my long hours of work and commute. That's why I wand joint custody so that I would have saying in decision made for my daughter, but I would allow my wife to have full physical custody.

As you said one you have kids, it is completely different ball game. We had a perfect marriage until my daughter was born. Then everything went upside down. Almost each divorce that I am aware of took place after kids.

In terms of waiting for laws to change, I think it is along shot and I don't want to stay married any longer.

I started leaning towards the idea of giving her one time larger amount of money. I am not sure how much that would be but I am willing to give up my life time savings, and maybe part of my 401K. I am not going offer her any money, and wait to see the final numbers of alimony per month and length). Then I will make an offer, any where from $100,000 to $250,000 (that's beside her share on our assets including the house which is almost paid off). So this way I can have piece of mind.

Still thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking .....
I feel like if you wait until after, the best choice will be clearly apparent to both sides and any deal favorable to you would be rejected.

I'm not a lawyer though.

In the end, maybe it would be best for you to just get a separation and not a full blown divorce. Then, just ask yourself, "Is this really that bad?", and let time play it's role. You never know what will happen, but could it really get any worse?
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      09-02-2011, 12:13 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I feel like if you wait until after, the best choice will be clearly apparent to both sides and any deal favorable to you would be rejected.

I'm not a lawyer though.

In the end, maybe it would be best for you to just get a separation and not a full blown divorce. Then, just ask yourself, "Is this really that bad?", and let time play it's role. You never know what will happen, but could it really get any worse?
In case of legal separation, I might be able to avoid alimony, but still have to support both homes since she can not. So in the end I would be spending similar amount of money (maybe little less). Also I would be living in a shitty apartment. And it would be more difficult for me to have a relationship since I am still legally married. I am certainly not looking for second marriage but having a girl friend that you can talk and f*** is not a bad idea
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      09-02-2011, 12:40 PM   #157
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Why would she get the house and you get the shitty apartment? Maybe you get the house. Or, sell it and rent two OK townhouses.

I hear you about my kids. All the divorced people in my family (i.e., everyone) didn't get divorced until after kids. It seems like too much stress. My wife wanted kids 6 or 7 years ago. I convinced her to wait a few more years, and now she's fairly sure she doesn't want them. Having friends with a 2 year old come to visit for a few days helped a lot

Sometimes I feel like we should though. I see all the people out there who have kids on a whim and do terrible jobs as a parent. The fact that I think about what a responsibility it would be discourages me from having kids, but probably indicates I'd be a decent parent. I suppose I wouldn't mind having a kid from ages 8-14 and 21+. All the inbetween stuff doesn't seem so great- especially babies. I refuse to wipe up smashed-up shit for a couple years of my life.

I think we'll just keep living for ourselves and use the kid money to retire earlier.





Oh yeah- I don't play the "yes dear" game either. I challenge my wife all the time, and she's become a much more agile thinker because of it, and she knows it. The only time I say something like this is, after I say something critical, like "why'd you do it that way when you could've saved an hour if you did it this way", and she responds with "Well! I guess I'm just an idiot and can't do anything right!" I'll repond with "yes dear- because that's exactly the same thing as what I just said".

We actually argue very little though. You know what a real marriage saver was: a GPS. About 1/2 of our arguments were over directions when I was driving and she was navigating.

Me: is this where we're supposed to turn?
Her: Ummmm....probably not.
Me: (pick your favorite WTF rage face)

Of course when we first got married she could barely use a map and she really has come a long way. GPS is much easier though.

Last edited by carve; 09-02-2011 at 01:08 PM.
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      09-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Ounce View Post
Lawyer up, pay for a good one up front now because you're honestly investing in your future. What's an extra 10-20k now in comparison to dropping 10-20k per year from your alimony/child support payments?

For the people giving advice about "Yes, Dear" being the key to a good marriage, enjoy your divorce in the future after you've been cuckolded multiple times. Pushovers are the biggest attraction killer ever, ignore her words and temporary crabby reaction to you standing up to her, because behind the scenes she's loving it. Again, please please do not approach the relationship this way. You (like most American Men now unfortunately) have been brainwashed by our feminist society into thinking you should act a certain way, when it's completely opposite of what is biologically attractive to the female sex. If you do this from the start, you'll be in great shape and you'll get less and less garbage as things go on pretty easily. If you're already in a relationship, applying this maxim will get you a bit of a poostorm at first but hold strong and benefits will roll in. This is probably half the reason so many long term relationships are sex starved. A women biologically can't be attracted to a "Yes Dear, Sure Honey" kind of man. He's a wimp.


This. This. This. It's also portrayed in media everywhere: Movies, TV shows, music, etc... I personally don't believe or know if OP is guilty of this, but it is an epidemic that has dilutted the leadership qualities of mankind.


It all goes back to Adam and Eve...but that's a whole different topic.
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      09-02-2011, 12:50 PM   #159
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Thank you Thank you Thank you, for reminding me yet again, why I will not be getting married, until I am at least the age you are getting divorced.
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      09-02-2011, 01:52 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by FwdFtl View Post
This. This. This. It's also portrayed in media everywhere: Movies, TV shows, music, etc... I personally don't believe or know if OP is guilty of this, but it is an epidemic that has dilutted the leadership qualities of mankind.


It all goes back to Adam and Eve...but that's a whole different topic.
I am certainly not one of them (no disrespect to anyone)
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      09-02-2011, 02:28 PM   #161
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holy matrimony has become eternal alimony....dear god...what has this world come to? it sickens me to see something regarded as scared turn into such a sleazy business deal....i feel really bad for u OP
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      09-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #162
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Going through it myself, right now. Here are my impressions, YMMV:

I agree that the "yes dear" types are what kill most of us males. Screw that, I've never been that guy and I never will be.

Divorce is a negotiation, do your negotiating better than your spouse.

Your attorney works for YOU!!! Outline what you want and make it clear that if he/she doesn't deliver, you will find an attorney that will. You need to make that clear on the FIRST consult so you don't pay 15 different lawyers 15 different retainers.

Don't be afraid to be a prick, ever. During my marriage, I went above and beyond the call of duty but wouldn't tolerate being taken advantage of. There's a difference between doing the right thing and rolling over.

Document EVERYTHING just in case you have to litigate. I have notes, files, proof, etc, of everything I had to deal with.


In my particular case, my (soon to be) ex has a daughter from a previous marriage that is the main reason we're getting a divorce. My current wife has no job, and no income. We've been married 7 years which entitles her to a little over 2 years in alimony. We have a son together. I'm filing for primary guardianship and my wife was fighting me on this. I hired "someone" to put a program on my computers that can gain passwords used on my computer. I found out that her daughter has been dealing drugs, I presented that evidence to the attornies, and my ex is now accepting my position for guardianship. The reason that happened is because so much other BS was discovered about the daughter...and her mother knew about it, she's in danger of losing both kids if I choose to press the matter.

Bottom line is that my divorce is just about to be finalized and I am not paying child support and I'm only paying a fraction of the alimony she is entitled to. I got the house, cars, everything. My salary is a good one as I'm a managing director for a global bank, she has no income...but she now knows she has about 2 1/2 years to get a good job.

I know I come off sounding like a prick, but divorce doesn't have to mean the male loses his genitals. Stand up for yourself and fight for what you've earned, don't accept what your lawyer tells you at face value, you have MUCH more control over the situation than you think.

Like the OP, I work long hours as well...rather than spend the money on child support and have my son in a potentially bad environment, I spent the money on a nanny. We do have joint custody, but my son's physical address is my house.

FYI, I find divorce lawyers to be the worst form of humans on the planet; they have access to all your financials and know just how long they can drag things out to keep getting paid. My first meeting with my attorney wasn't the most pleasant for either of us, but I made it very clear he would have a "win" and what I expected from him...and how much I was going to spend doing it. If I felt that half way through the proceeding we weren't far enough, I would fire him and he would have to pay me back the remainder of the retainer.

Sorry for such a long post...I just don't want to see anyone getting raked over the coals unnecessarily.

To the OP, best of luck with your situation and feel free to PM me if you need anything.
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      09-02-2011, 03:30 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by mylydiamy View Post
The laws are designed to make sure that both parties will continue to have equal (or the same as before the divorce) life style after divorce.
That is just absolute bullshit. It's babying adults. Adults can manage their own lives FFS. We don't need the government getting into the lives of adults because they might have to live a different lifestyle after a divorce...
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      09-02-2011, 03:44 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by BMWsky View Post
Going through it myself, right now. Here are my impressions, YMMV:

I agree that the "yes dear" types are what kill most of us males. Screw that, I've never been that guy and I never will be.

Divorce is a negotiation, do your negotiating better than your spouse.

Your attorney works for YOU!!! Outline what you want and make it clear that if he/she doesn't deliver, you will find an attorney that will. You need to make that clear on the FIRST consult so you don't pay 15 different lawyers 15 different retainers.

Don't be afraid to be a prick, ever. During my marriage, I went above and beyond the call of duty but wouldn't tolerate being taken advantage of. There's a difference between doing the right thing and rolling over.

Document EVERYTHING just in case you have to litigate. I have notes, files, proof, etc, of everything I had to deal with.


In my particular case, my (soon to be) ex has a daughter from a previous marriage that is the main reason we're getting a divorce. My current wife has no job, and no income. We've been married 7 years which entitles her to a little over 2 years in alimony. We have a son together. I'm filing for primary guardianship and my wife was fighting me on this. I hired "someone" to put a program on my computers that can gain passwords used on my computer. I found out that her daughter has been dealing drugs, I presented that evidence to the attornies, and my ex is now accepting my position for guardianship. The reason that happened is because so much other BS was discovered about the daughter...and her mother knew about it, she's in danger of losing both kids if I choose to press the matter.

Bottom line is that my divorce is just about to be finalized and I am not paying child support and I'm only paying a fraction of the alimony she is entitled to. I got the house, cars, everything. My salary is a good one as I'm a managing director for a global bank, she has no income...but she now knows she has about 2 1/2 years to get a good job.

I know I come off sounding like a prick, but divorce doesn't have to mean the male loses his genitals. Stand up for yourself and fight for what you've earned, don't accept what your lawyer tells you at face value, you have MUCH more control over the situation than you think.

Like the OP, I work long hours as well...rather than spend the money on child support and have my son in a potentially bad environment, I spent the money on a nanny. We do have joint custody, but my son's physical address is my house.

FYI, I find divorce lawyers to be the worst form of humans on the planet; they have access to all your financials and know just how long they can drag things out to keep getting paid. My first meeting with my attorney wasn't the most pleasant for either of us, but I made it very clear he would have a "win" and what I expected from him...and how much I was going to spend doing it. If I felt that half way through the proceeding we weren't far enough, I would fire him and he would have to pay me back the remainder of the retainer.

Sorry for such a long post...I just don't want to see anyone getting raked over the coals unnecessarily.

To the OP, best of luck with your situation and feel free to PM me if you need anything.
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      09-02-2011, 03:58 PM   #165
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I'd hire a hit. In all seriousness though, that sucks bro. Sorry to hear about your missfortune. Your situation is a huge reason why i don't EVER want to get married. Just seems like there is nothing good in marriage for men these days. :/
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      09-02-2011, 04:19 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWsky View Post
Going through it myself, right now. Here are my impressions, YMMV:

I agree that the "yes dear" types are what kill most of us males. Screw that, I've never been that guy and I never will be.

Divorce is a negotiation, do your negotiating better than your spouse.

Your attorney works for YOU!!! Outline what you want and make it clear that if he/she doesn't deliver, you will find an attorney that will. You need to make that clear on the FIRST consult so you don't pay 15 different lawyers 15 different retainers.

Don't be afraid to be a prick, ever. During my marriage, I went above and beyond the call of duty but wouldn't tolerate being taken advantage of. There's a difference between doing the right thing and rolling over.

Document EVERYTHING just in case you have to litigate. I have notes, files, proof, etc, of everything I had to deal with.


In my particular case, my (soon to be) ex has a daughter from a previous marriage that is the main reason we're getting a divorce. My current wife has no job, and no income. We've been married 7 years which entitles her to a little over 2 years in alimony. We have a son together. I'm filing for primary guardianship and my wife was fighting me on this. I hired "someone" to put a program on my computers that can gain passwords used on my computer. I found out that her daughter has been dealing drugs, I presented that evidence to the attornies, and my ex is now accepting my position for guardianship. The reason that happened is because so much other BS was discovered about the daughter...and her mother knew about it, she's in danger of losing both kids if I choose to press the matter.

Bottom line is that my divorce is just about to be finalized and I am not paying child support and I'm only paying a fraction of the alimony she is entitled to. I got the house, cars, everything. My salary is a good one as I'm a managing director for a global bank, she has no income...but she now knows she has about 2 1/2 years to get a good job.

I know I come off sounding like a prick, but divorce doesn't have to mean the male loses his genitals. Stand up for yourself and fight for what you've earned, don't accept what your lawyer tells you at face value, you have MUCH more control over the situation than you think.

Like the OP, I work long hours as well...rather than spend the money on child support and have my son in a potentially bad environment, I spent the money on a nanny. We do have joint custody, but my son's physical address is my house.

FYI, I find divorce lawyers to be the worst form of humans on the planet; they have access to all your financials and know just how long they can drag things out to keep getting paid. My first meeting with my attorney wasn't the most pleasant for either of us, but I made it very clear he would have a "win" and what I expected from him...and how much I was going to spend doing it. If I felt that half way through the proceeding we weren't far enough, I would fire him and he would have to pay me back the remainder of the retainer.

Sorry for such a long post...I just don't want to see anyone getting raked over the coals unnecessarily.

To the OP, best of luck with your situation and feel free to PM me if you need anything.

Thanks.

I am glad that you were able to take advantage of your step daughter's illegal activities.

Unfortunately, I have no such luck. My soon to be ex is as clean as it gets. No adultery (at least as far as I know), no hidden assets, no illegal activity, nothing... I have trying to come up something that I can use as bargaining chips but no luck so far...

As far as divorce lawyers concerned, I agree with you 110%. Unfortunately everyone in divorce needs one. I am trying to get the best one consulting as many as I could (so far 4 and I am planning to see 2-3 more). Basically they all told me the same thing : Most likely I am in for life about 3-4K a month alimony and $1000-$1500 child support until my daughter graduates from college. I am trying get the smartest one using my instincts.
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      09-02-2011, 04:24 PM   #167
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Any happily married men that can chime in? I've read nothing but negative views about marriage based on OP's situation, there has to be some benefits right?

*crickets*
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      09-02-2011, 04:28 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkRider23 View Post
That is just absolute bullshit. It's babying adults. Adults can manage their own lives FFS. We don't need the government getting into the lives of adults because they might have to live a different lifestyle after a divorce...
I agree. As I mentioned in one of earlier posts, most of the divorce laws were designed decades ago. Those day woman used to stay home and take care of kids. After divorce there was very little chance for her to get a job paying enough money to survive. As we all know that has changes. woman can earn as much as men. But divorce laws have remained the same most part.

And the worst part is not the amount of alimony, it is the length. If you divorce after 9 years, you could get a away with 2-5 years of alimony. But once you exceed 10 years most likely you are in for life. Knowing that there is no end to it really sucks. You will have to make a lot of sacrifices in order to pay your alimony while she is enjoying your money at a beach some place in Hawaii probably with a boyfriend is like a nightmare...maybe even worse
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      09-02-2011, 04:30 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FwdFtl View Post
Any happily married men that can chime in? I've read nothing but negative views about marriage based on OP's situation, there has to be some benefits right?

*crickets*
Probably sex, but just for a few years. Then it gets boring, then is completely forgotten.

Also you may get some tax benefits as well depending on her income.
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      09-02-2011, 04:38 PM   #170
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Probably sex, but just for a few years. Then it gets boring, then is completely forgotten.

Also you may get some tax benefits as well depending on her income.
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      09-02-2011, 04:39 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
holy matrimony has become eternal alimony....dear god...what has this world come to? it sickens me to see something regarded as scared turn into such a sleazy business deal....i feel really bad for u OP
This may be why the divorce rate for first time marriages is so high
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      09-02-2011, 05:07 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by JCE View Post
Move to Texas, there is no alimony. Also, maximum child support since 2007 is 1500/month, unless there are special circumstances for the child such as a disability or something.

There is a bunch of stupid shyt people have to go thru in other states.
Too late for that....She got him by the balls.
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      09-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #173
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Move to Texas, there is no alimony. Also, maximum child support since 2007 is 1500/month, unless there are special circumstances for the child such as a disability or something.

There is a bunch of stupid shyt people have to go thru in other states.
The more I learn, the more I like Texas
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      09-02-2011, 06:18 PM   #174
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      09-02-2011, 06:22 PM   #175
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The more I learn, the more I like Texas

It's quite simple and you can live anywhere...don't get married, it makes no sense for a guy.
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      09-02-2011, 06:41 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by mylydiamy View Post
Thanks.

I am glad that you were able to take advantage of your step daughter's illegal activities.

Unfortunately, I have no such luck. My soon to be ex is as clean as it gets. No adultery (at least as far as I know), no hidden assets, no illegal activity, nothing... I have trying to come up something that I can use as bargaining chips but no luck so far...

As far as divorce lawyers concerned, I agree with you 110%. Unfortunately everyone in divorce needs one. I am trying to get the best one consulting as many as I could (so far 4 and I am planning to see 2-3 more). Basically they all told me the same thing : Most likely I am in for life about 3-4K a month alimony and $1000-$1500 child support until my daughter graduates from college. I am trying get the smartest one using my instincts.

I didn't expect to find that out, but my point was that if you look hard enough, you'll find something to give you leverage in a negotiation. You said you were working hard while she was out partying, there's a start, build on that.

One thing to be clear on, you don't HAVE to pay anything...the outlines are there if you end up litigating. Those guidelines are there for the judge to follow if you and your ex can't come to a resolution. Unfortunately, spouses seem to think they're ENTITLED to that. There are two sides to each argument, screw entitlement.

Another option to consider is collaborative law. If you're not familiar with that, it's where you and your ex promise NOT to litigate and instead try to reason and bargain with each other. It is a far more civil method and is starting to gain traction in many states.

Please don't take anything I say as an attack on you, I truly know and feel what you're going through. I'd be more than happy to listen to anything you have to say. My whole position is that we (males) needn't be taken advantage of by a system that expects us to just roll over and "pay up".

Best wishes to you through this whole ordeal, I really mean that.
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