Horsepower wars coming to a close, weight wars begin. BMW fires first salvo

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by Ziggy99

BMW fires first salvo?
Where? I don`t see it in any current production car. Current F10 for instance gained several hundred pounds.

Lexus, for the all new GS, really nailed it. They didn`t enlarged the car, -why would they?- but increased interior space, knee, head and legroom , plus a bigger trunk -25% more bigger-.
Now that is efficient packaging.

And they added a bunch of new technology, and car`s curb weight remained about the same!

Now that is doing it right.

From Autoweek...
"Lexus says the 2013 GS 350 uses an all-new platform with a 2-inch wider track. Its wheelbase remains the same but the car is longer, wider and taller than the old model.

The GS will be offered with only a V6 and V6 hybrid. A V8 version was part of the previous two generations but was only about 10 percent of the model mix.

Using a carryover 3.5-liter V6 and six-speed sequential-shift transmission, the GS 350 accelerates from 0-to-60 mph in 5.7 seconds, the same as the current model."

I can't find any official curb weight numbers but I'd place a bet the new GS weighs more. No mention of new lightweight materials used in construction though it very well could. It could appear to weigh the same if the new V6 version is compared to the old V8 version. Not enough detail to make a judgement yet.

[mkoesel]

^ Interesting, though, that Lexus appears to be joining Cadilac in not offering a V8 for their offering in this class. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, and Infiniti are clearly not ready to give the V8 up yet, and the new Audi A6 will also gain a 4L turbo V8 model soon as well.

[Lipe Paiga]

Well, I think my 135i is a lighter car compared to 1M. Maybe because of its tires or wider susp, I don't know.
I went to BMW M Tour last month and drove 1M after M3 E92. Ok, 1M is 6MT, ligther, almost 80hp less than M3 and its faster too.
The point is: I don't think 135i and 1M is feels heavy. I have one Alfa Romeo 145 and its 2734lbs. This is heavy for a 90's hatchback. M3 is heavy, but don't feel heavy.
Ok, we need lighter cars and I think 3000lbs is the point to 1M and 3200 is top weight for M3.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

^ Interesting, though, that Lexus appears to be joining Cadilac in not offering a V8 for their offering in this class. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, and Infiniti are clearly not ready to give the V8 up yet, and the new Audi A6 will also gain a 4L turbo V8 model soon as well.

Same article speculated that the GS-F would just supercharge the V6, which would in no way be in competition with the M5/E55/RS6. It may be that they just won't get into that class/price area. Given that the sales of the GS have never been great, might be smart not to invest too much into it.

[Reznick]

Originally Posted by gobrigavitch

It's very frustrating what the US government has done to cars. I can't remember the quote or who said it, but I once heard that the US is the only government that is hell bent on protecting people from themselves. It's evidenced by all the rules that are designed to protect drivers and passengers that don't wear their seat belts. It's really frustrating here in Canada, because we basically get no say. Since we are a smaller market and live right next door, we basically get all the same safety equipment as the US. It would be really interesting to see a figure that shows how much weight is added by the various safety regulations. Even better if it also documented just how much safer it makes the cars, and the total cost of that safety improvement in extra manufacturing costs and extra energy expenditure. I think the results would be eye-popping.

While I basically agree with what you are saying,I'd like to add one more thing . DRIVER EDUCATION. That weighs NOTHING. Governments around the world continue to add driver aids and safety devices , which add weight. At the very same time they want MPG to be doubled within a decade. Instead of isolating drivers, why not have them more involved...crazy idea ,I know.Of the plethora of stupid "safety" implementations , the UK's pedestrian crumple zone has to be one of the stupidest( I know it probably didn't add much weight). It now dictates the profile for ALL cars. Here's a crazy idea, look both ways before you cross the street. Or better yet, quit driving on the sidewalk thumping people. Sorry for the rant

[crashish]

Just to add my two cents regarding the size complaints, I haven't fit comfortably in any 3 series before the current gen (at least since I stopped growing), and the main reason I fit into the current M3 coupe is the lack of a sunroof! Oh, glorious headroom!

I would love to drive many of the smaller/lighter options out there, and have been sorely disappointed on many occasions where I'd go to sit in one and couldn't even manage to fold myself into the cockpit (Porsche was the worst in this regard). It turns out I did end up with the lightest car out of all my choices being the M3, but it's all about perspective...

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Reznick

DRIVER EDUCATION. That weighs NOTHING. Governments around the world continue to add driver aids and safety devices , which add weight. At the very same time they want MPG to be doubled within a decade. Instead of isolating drivers, why not have them more involved...crazy idea ,I know.

this is a great idea unfortunatley the world is primarily populated with people who dont give two shits about their car or driving properly. its a pretty small population that has even washed their car by hand in the last year let alone take an avid interst in being a better driver or understanding simple manuvers and skills that could save their life and others while being fun.

[marcva]

Porsche is good about being true to the weight mantra since they have a focused sense of product. The M3 has evolved from race car to GT car and gotten a little too luxurious for the traditionalists here. By the same token, would we step up and buy a stripped down car that weighed 400 lbs less? cloth interior, eliminate some of the electronic gadgetry?