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      08-16-2011, 08:04 AM   #23
CalgaryX3
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Not true. As someone who runs a family business, if you're laying off employees and roll up in an high end car, you can be sure that they'll be thinking things like "He fired so and so so he could afford that car. That's not right". "He's such a jack**s." That's why it's important you don't show your weekend toys to your employees.
Heck, my co-workers don't even get to see my weekend toys. Staying low-key and a little humility far out weighs the envy and jealousy so prevalent in the workplace these days. Some know that I have an M3, yet since they don't see it parked in the lot for 10-12 hours a day, it rarely comes up in discussion.

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      08-16-2011, 08:10 AM   #24
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What a beautiful car. Best of luck
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      08-16-2011, 08:27 AM   #25
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I have pay more attention to throttle control again now that I'm back in a rear wheel drive car. In the GT-R I could be more abrupt in my driving style and get away with it.



My employees do not see my weekend toys normally. I sold the GT-R to save money because I took a pay cut before I started asking my employees to work less hours and give up some paid vacation time.

I completely agree that I should have stuck with the M3, but I got caught up in the chase for the perfect car. I'm not proud of that, but it happened. It cost me a lot of money that I would like to have back. The upside is I got to drive some pretty cool cars.
Damn honorable thing to do. You are to be commended for such a gracious act.

Don't sweat the lost $$$; others (namely, me) have done the same thing. Heck, I'm already planning for an early '12 purchase after owning the Grand Sport for just five months now. The M3 is at the top of the list. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have just stuck with my M5.....that was three cars ago

BTW - nice looking Boss. Love it in white!!
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      08-16-2011, 09:01 AM   #26
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Congrats!

Can you discuss the cornering differences? Turn in, throttle on the exit, etc.?
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      08-16-2011, 09:52 AM   #27
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Congrats!

Can you discuss the cornering differences? Turn in, throttle on the exit, etc.?
I'm certainly not the best person to discuss these areas, but I will give it a shot. The Boss feels like it turns in more quickly than what I remember from the M3. The front end of the Ford feels light and changes direction very quickly while giving pretty good feedback for an electric steering rack. Both cars set nicely in corners, but the solid rear axle will make itself know if you hit a bump while the suspension in loaded up. The Boss will quickly settle down after hitting a bump mid corner, but it can be a little scary if your not used to it. I also feel like I have to be a little smoother coming back on the throttle in the Ford because the torque can overwhelm the tires pretty easily when they are still providing lateral as well as forward grip.
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      08-16-2011, 05:58 PM   #28
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Thanks for your ownership review, its very valuable especially coming from a M3. I too, would love to have a 302 Boss, its not cheap, at 50s its comparable to my 09 as a used M3. Congrats!! I bet its an awesome car to own and drive, I've driven the GT version and that to me is already amazing, How much more your Boss!
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      08-16-2011, 07:48 PM   #29
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It wasn't that hard because I knew that is what needed to be done. Don't get me wrong, the Nissan is an amazing car and is the highest performing car I've ever owned. It would just have been hard to enjoy because of other things going on in my life.
No worries... You still have a bad ass car... I looked up the times and thats a fast car!!!! On the MotorTrend test track it beat the GT500 by 4 seconds, it beat the 2010 Audi R8 by .2 seconds, and beat the M3 by 2 seconds.... Congrats!!!!
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      08-16-2011, 10:05 PM   #30
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You don't have to explain. Everyone whose a business owner understands. My employees only see my daily driver (GTI).
I own my company and implore you to reconsider your thinking on this.

Your employees opinion of you have little to do with what you drive. It's all about how you treat them. (i.e., Decent wage, benefits, potential for growth, etc.)

I would even go so far as to say that driving a fine automobile can engender confidence in your employees that their leader is prosperous.

In the end, you may be cheating yourself from the joy of utilizing your M3 as a daily driver.
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      08-17-2011, 02:19 AM   #31
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Congrats on the boss, looks great, I really like the recaro's it definitely adds a different touch to the mustang.

As far as bringing your weekend toy to work I don't see why not, like mentioned before if your business is going well and you treat your employees properly it shows that with hard work it pays off..

Personally I drive my m3 to work everyday and yes some employees do give an air of jealousy towards me but it's usually the lazy and unproductive ones, alot of my guys respect me and know I give my life to my business and actually are happy for me that I finally got my m3
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      08-17-2011, 10:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
I own my company and implore you to reconsider your thinking on this.

Your employees opinion of you have little to do with what you drive. It's all about how you treat them. (i.e., Decent wage, benefits, potential for growth, etc.)

I would even go so far as to say that driving a fine automobile can engender confidence in your employees that their leader is prosperous.

In the end, you may be cheating yourself from the joy of utilizing your M3 as a daily driver.



I think this falls under the "how yout treat them". If they've had cuts in pay because of slowing business, it has a whole new meaning when the boss is still driving an exotic-looking sports car like a GTR.
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      08-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #33
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Very nice purchase man!

Did you get the TracKey?
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      08-17-2011, 12:26 PM   #34
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It wasn't that hard because I knew that is what needed to be done. Don't get me wrong, the Nissan is an amazing car and is the highest performing car I've ever owned. It would just have been hard to enjoy because of other things going on in my life.
I test drove a GTR 3 times and still chose the M3. Here's why:

The GTR has no soul.

By that I mean that while, objectively, it is better by the numbers, aside from the mind numbing acceleration, the subjective driving experience is superior in the M3.

The GTR interior is so-so at best. Materials are mediocre and the design is very 1980's. Not like my extended leather, sweeping lines, and real aluminum in the M3.

The steering on the GTR (or any AWD car for that matter) was just not as precise as the M3.

Ride in the GTR is really harsh. M3 has a much nicer ride/handling balance.

The clunky transmission noises in the GTR are just awful. Makes you think something is broken. The sounds are almost embarrassing for a car of this caliber.

Exhaust note is truly pitiful in comparison to even a stock M3.

The engine sound is also unpleasant. Loud turbos with no pleasing engine revving sound to speak of.

The exterior design, while supposedly functional, is an aesthetic nightmare.

Jeremy Clarkson said on an episode of Top Gear that the GTR was an "instrument for speed". That is all it is. It is a tool to go fast, with little character, no sexiness, and little subjective appeal.

There is no question that in terms of performance bang for the buck, the GTR reigns supreme in automotive world. For that relative bargain price, however, you lose virtually all the subjective things that make driving enjoyable also.

The M3 wins due to its gorgeous flowing exterior design with the just the right amount of extrovertedness added in, it's impeccable dynamics and responsiveness, it's glorious, instantaneous throttle response and wailing engine note, it's absolutely magnificent ride/handling balance and notably more upscale interior.
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      08-17-2011, 12:54 PM   #35
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Very nice purchase man!

Did you get the TracKey?
Not yet. Ford hasn't released the Track Key. Apparently they are having an issue with CARB certification. Last I heard is it will be either late this month or early next month. I will be one of the first in line when it is available.
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      08-17-2011, 03:14 PM   #36
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Not yet. Ford hasn't released the Track Key. Apparently they are having an issue with CARB certification. Last I heard is it will be either late this month or early next month. I will be one of the first in line when it is available.
Nice! Keep us updated man. I'm also looking into the Boss 302 for my next car.

Hope your aware of this:
http://www.insideline.com/ford/musta...d-by-feds.html

It's still currently under investigation as we speak. If they fix that problem, I would also probably get a 302. The ///M3 needs to rest since it's my DD.
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      08-17-2011, 03:31 PM   #37
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Nice! Keep us updated man. I'm also looking into the Boss 302 for my next car.

Hope your aware of this:
http://www.insideline.com/ford/musta...d-by-feds.html

It's still currently under investigation as we speak. If they fix that problem, I would also probably get a 302. The ///M3 needs to rest since it's my DD.
I'm aware of this problem, but my car hasn't had any issues so far. The 2011 Shelby GT500 I had with the Tremec TR6060 had some shifting issues including grinding while shifting into 2nd at high RPMs. So far the Boss has been without issue.
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      08-17-2011, 03:40 PM   #38
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I'm aware of this problem, but my car hasn't had any issues so far. The 2011 Shelby GT500 I had with the Tremec TR6060 had some shifting issues including grinding while shifting into 2nd at high RPMs. So far the Boss has been without issue.
I'm really very interested on the Boss 302 for my next car so let me know if anything comes up since the MT-82 already has a lot of problems.

How about other '11 mustang GT owners? Do they swap the Mt-82 with the TR-6060 tranny in their car instead since the Mt-82 has a lot of problems? Or is the swap not worth it?
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      08-21-2011, 12:01 AM   #39
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I test drove a GTR 3 times and still chose the M3. Here's why:

The GTR has no soul.

By that I mean that while, objectively, it is better by the numbers, aside from the mind numbing acceleration, the subjective driving experience is superior in the M3.

The GTR interior is so-so at best. Materials are mediocre and the design is very 1980's. Not like my extended leather, sweeping lines, and real aluminum in the M3.

The steering on the GTR (or any AWD car for that matter) was just not as precise as the M3.

Ride in the GTR is really harsh. M3 has a much nicer ride/handling balance.

The clunky transmission noises in the GTR are just awful. Makes you think something is broken. The sounds are almost embarrassing for a car of this caliber.

Exhaust note is truly pitiful in comparison to even a stock M3.

The engine sound is also unpleasant. Loud turbos with no pleasing engine revving sound to speak of.

The exterior design, while supposedly functional, is an aesthetic nightmare.

Jeremy Clarkson said on an episode of Top Gear that the GTR was an "instrument for speed". That is all it is. It is a tool to go fast, with little character, no sexiness, and little subjective appeal.

There is no question that in terms of performance bang for the buck, the GTR reigns supreme in automotive world. For that relative bargain price, however, you lose virtually all the subjective things that make driving enjoyable also.

The M3 wins due to its gorgeous flowing exterior design with the just the right amount of extrovertedness added in, it's impeccable dynamics and responsiveness, it's glorious, instantaneous throttle response and wailing engine note, it's absolutely magnificent ride/handling balance and notably more upscale interior.
Congrats on the Boss 302.

GTR no character! No way. I own both. Comparing it to an m3 is an apples and oranges comparison. I know this is a bimmer forum and I'm a die-hard bimmer fan who has an m3, but the gtr is an amazing car that's in a different league. This is coming from someone who has owned a variety of sports cars.

The turbos, tranny noises, ride and looks are part of the character of the car and a higher performance vehicle...not embarrassing. In other words, there is some sacrifice for the performance, but not much compared to what you get in return. For me, it's totally acceptable as a daily driver unless you plan on carrying adults in the back frequently. Then again, what performance car of this caliber even has back seats with decent gas mileage?

Have you driven a 2012? The comfort setting is quite comfortable and the tranny isn't as clunky at slow speeds. However, I still prefer the normal setting. Looks of course are subjective. I think it looks great. I can tell you that I get many more complements on it than I ever have the M3. The interior, although sportier, is on par with the M, esp. the 2012. The m3 has more of a spartan luxury interior. That style wouldn't fit in the GTR. I agree that the exhaust note could be improved. That's easily done with a $700-800 mid pipe if desired.

Clarkson actually said he wants a GTR. They hardly felt it was boring: http://bcove.me/i0dd6r06

Don't get me wrong, I love the m3, but since picking up the gtr, it hasn't been out of the garage much. The traditional "balance" argument of the M hasn't been enough for me to leave the GTR behind.

Here are some other members that recently picked up a GTR:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574336

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511212

Last edited by erio; 08-21-2011 at 12:20 PM.
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      08-21-2011, 03:41 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
I'm really very interested on the Boss 302 for my next car so let me know if anything comes up since the MT-82 already has a lot of problems.

How about other '11 mustang GT owners? Do they swap the Mt-82 with the TR-6060 tranny in their car instead since the Mt-82 has a lot of problems? Or is the swap not worth it?
I can assure you the vast majority of 2011-12 Mustang owners with the MT82 trannies aren't having any shift issues. Now I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but the consensus is on the Mustang boards its a small percentage.

Of course if you are the one with the problem than its a big issue.

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      08-21-2011, 06:47 AM   #41
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Congrats on the Boss 302.

GTR no character! No way. I own both. Comparing it to an m3 is an apples and oranges comparison. I know this is a bimmer forum and I'm a die-hard bimmer fan who has an m3, but the gtr is an amazing car that's in a different league. This is coming from someone who has owned a variety of sports cars.

The turbos, tranny noises, ride and looks are part of the character of the car and a higher performance vehicle...not embarrassing. In other words, there is some sacrifice for the performance, but not much compared to what you get in return. For me, it's totally acceptable as a daily driver unless you plan on carrying adults in the back frequently. Then again, what performance car of this caliber even has back seats with decent gas mileage?

Have you driven a 2012? The comfort setting is quite comfortable and the tranny isn't as clunky at slow speeds. However, I still prefer the normal setting. Looks of course are subjective. I think it looks great. I can tell you that I get many more complements on it than ever have the M3. The interior, although sportier, is on par with the M, esp. the 2012. The m3 has more of a spartan luxury interior. That style wouldn't fit in the GTR. I agree that the exhaust note could be improved. That's easily done with a $700-800 mid pipe if desired.

Clarkson actually said he wants a GTR. They hardly felt it was boring: http://bcove.me/i0dd6r06

Don't get me wrong, I love the m3, but since picking up the gtr, it hasn't been out of the garage much. The traditional "balance" argument of the M hasn't been enough for me to leave the GTR behind.

Here are some other members that recently picked up a GTR:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574336

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511212
Don't get me wrong, I am not disputing the cars performance capabilities whatsoever, but when you try to package supercar performance into a car costing under $100k, something has to give. I would buy a used 911 turbo before a bought a new GTR. I do recognize that the GTR is in a completely different performance league than an M3, objective speaking.

In the end, however, what really turned me off from the GTR was the styling, both interior and exterior. Funny thing is, I LOVE the styling of the 370z. If only the GTR had looked a little more smooth and sweeping with a little more Infiniti influence to the interior. What I do like is the Japan-only Egoist Package. Now that is how the interior of the GTR should be.

Here's how I would change the GTR:

1. Smoother and more flowing front air damn. Looks too choppy and "industrial". Again, it is all business, no art. Functional, but not elegant.

2. Painted lower trim. I just hate the two-tone thing.

3. Rear trunk lid shotened by 2-3 inches. This would, IMO, give better overall proportions to the car.

4. Tapered in trunk area, like they with the latest Mustang, and like they do with the 370Z. I really dislike how fat the rear end is.

5. Better integrated rear deck-lid spoiler. The current one looks very boy-racer like.

6. Less busy rear lower valence.

7. How about just some dual exhaust tips exiting in the center. Creating four 4" exhaust tips from a single exhaust pipe is really ricey.

8. Better looking engine bay

9. Better sound insulation

10. A more continuous dashboard design where everything doesn't look so piecemeal. Better plastics/vinyl, especially in the center console area.

11. Egoist interior should be standard.

12. Some nicer color choices, both interior and exterior.

There, I think that about covers it.

The GTR will always get a lot of attention because of what it is, and it's extroverted design, but then, Lady Gaga gets a lot of attention too.

I know it's an incredible machine, but it's just not for me, and I have really tried to get myself to like the car ever since it came out, but I just can't justify that kind of money for something that I don't love.

In contrast, there are only 3 things I would want different on my M3.

1. Wider factory tires

2. A better weighted shifter

3. Slightly more midrange torque.

Everything else about the car, to me, it just right, and the design is flawless.
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      08-21-2011, 07:06 AM   #42
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Being in a family business with over 100 employees, I completely understand. Dad had to sell his 997tt and the boat not because he couldn't afford them, but because of the image it portrays along with our layoffs. Hats off from one business man to another
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      08-21-2011, 03:04 PM   #43
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Don't get me wrong, I am not disputing the cars performance capabilities whatsoever, but when you try to package supercar performance into a car costing under $100k, something has to give. I would buy a used 911 turbo before a bought a new GTR. I do recognize that the GTR is in a completely different performance league than an M3, objective speaking.

In the end, however, what really turned me off from the GTR was the styling, both interior and exterior. Funny thing is, I LOVE the styling of the 370z. If only the GTR had looked a little more smooth and sweeping with a little more Infiniti influence to the interior. What I do like is the Japan-only Egoist Package. Now that is how the interior of the GTR should be.

Here's how I would change the GTR:

1. Smoother and more flowing front air damn. Looks too choppy and "industrial". Again, it is all business, no art. Functional, but not elegant.

2. Painted lower trim. I just hate the two-tone thing.

3. Rear trunk lid shotened by 2-3 inches. This would, IMO, give better overall proportions to the car.

4. Tapered in trunk area, like they with the latest Mustang, and like they do with the 370Z. I really dislike how fat the rear end is.

5. Better integrated rear deck-lid spoiler. The current one looks very boy-racer like.

6. Less busy rear lower valence.

7. How about just some dual exhaust tips exiting in the center. Creating four 4" exhaust tips from a single exhaust pipe is really ricey.

8. Better looking engine bay

9. Better sound insulation

10. A more continuous dashboard design where everything doesn't look so piecemeal. Better plastics/vinyl, especially in the center console area.

11. Egoist interior should be standard.

12. Some nicer color choices, both interior and exterior.

There, I think that about covers it.

The GTR will always get a lot of attention because of what it is, and it's extroverted design, but then, Lady Gaga gets a lot of attention too.

I know it's an incredible machine, but it's just not for me, and I have really tried to get myself to like the car ever since it came out, but I just can't justify that kind of money for something that I don't love.

In contrast, there are only 3 things I would want different on my M3.

1. Wider factory tires

2. A better weighted shifter

3. Slightly more midrange torque.

Everything else about the car, to me, it just right, and the design is flawless.
Well most of those are subjective and aesthetic. The interior has been toned down with darker colors and improved leather stitching in the dash. I believe sound insulation has also been improved. I had a 997tt a couple years ago. I don't think the quality was any better and the interior was boring in comparison. If you are cross shopping the two, with the porsche you would be paying for the badge. That's not as important for me. My 911 wasn't as fast either. I agree that the Z has nice lines, but there is a little too much cutting corners in terms of quality to keep it affordable, mainly the interior. I don't think the Egoist fits the character of the car. It's way too gaudy.

Last edited by erio; 08-21-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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      08-21-2011, 07:06 PM   #44
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