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      08-11-2011, 01:30 AM   #1
Montoya
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Pilot Cup Sport +N Review

So I went with the PSC+N for my track day tires. Overall they held up well, but like others have posted, they drop off after about five laps. I have the PSC's mounted on the OEM 220 wheels. Car is stock except for track pads.

We played around with pressures, ultimately ending up with about 35 pounds all around.

Here's the times from the last session (this is at PIR):

1:39 in lap
1:35.7 the video (see my other post)
1:35.3 best of the day
1:37.9 (point by faster car)
1:36.2
1:36.3
1:38.7 (oops too late braking into the chicane!)
1:37.5
1:41.0 (waiting for a point by)
1:38.4
1:38.6
1:47.0 Start cool down
2:54 Out lap

So, there you have it. About three seconds per lap at the end of my session to the beginning. The drop off wasn't horrible, but I would start needing to breath the throttle through the tighter section of the back straight with the bumps, probably beginning on lap 4 or 5 which adds a little time (maybe I didnít need to, but when the TC comes on at 115 I thought it was best!). Most notably at the end was that turn 4-5-6 and 12 were noticeably slower and the traction out of 3 and 7 was dicey. In the early laps the TC light was pretty much off unless I jumped a curb, by the end it was on coming out of 3, 6, 7 and 12- It came on a lot and early in 7.

In this last session I think there was only one car I pointed by and was pretty much on my own through the bulk of the session- I might have passed three cars total, but they were quick and I really wasnít held up, so the times reflect an open track except as noted.

Interested in others with PSC +N- is 35 all around too high? Michelin recommends generically that you set them for 32 in the front and 35 in the rear- thoughts???
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      08-11-2011, 10:06 AM   #2
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Why were you using the +N spec on an M3? I think that is OEM for Porsches. I don't have much to add accept for a variety of reasons, I wasn't that impressed with the PSC in my one experience owning them, and given their prices vs comparable R compoundish track tires, have no intention of going back unless Michelin significantly improves them. Also, I think someone (knowledgeable) told me their "generic" pressure recommendations are specifically targeted at 911s, and for other makes, you need to find your own best pressure.
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      08-11-2011, 11:43 AM   #3
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The +N is the new compound- they have the BMW Star so they are OEM for BMW as well as Porsche.
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      08-14-2011, 12:42 PM   #4
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If you want 19" then only Cup + or Cup +N. These are not as grippy in the dry as the regular Cup (not +) tires as these have less negative thread.

The only 19" Cup (not +) is the 265/30-19 as far as I know: ok for the front but not wide enough for the rear.

In 18" you can find the better Cup (not +) with more choices for your M3. These are awesome grip-wise and they last relatively long.
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      08-14-2011, 02:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRing View Post
If you want 19" then only Cup + or Cup +N. These are not as grippy in the dry as the regular Cup (not +) tires as these have less negative thread.

The only 19" Cup (not +) is the 265/30-19 as far as I know: ok for the front but not wide enough for the rear.

In 18" you can find the better Cup (not +) with more choices for your M3. These are awesome grip-wise and they last relatively long.
Really? I thought the +N were newer and differed only slightly but it was difficult to find any information on them. Do you have a link to the information source?
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      08-14-2011, 03:32 PM   #6
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I only have a pdf from the German Michelin race-tire supplier. The not+ are much better for dry tracks. If you on the other hand want to use the tires all the time, the + are better/safer overall.
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      08-14-2011, 03:40 PM   #7
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This is the not +:http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Sport+Cup

In the US the same as here; as I mentioned above. see the sizes.
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      08-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #8
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This is a pic of the + version although they do not mention it!:

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...port-cup-tires
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      08-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #9
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Big difference. Which ones did you get?!
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      08-14-2011, 07:41 PM   #10
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As you noted the +N have the OEM fitment for the M3, so that is what I have- 245F and 265 rear. I've seen the information you posted, but it doesn't talk about a big difference other than one extra circumferential groove on the outer shoulder, my guess to give slightly better wet grip. I'll take a picture and post later, it is less than 2 mm wide, hardly something that will result in a noticable difference in dry handling. Unless there is some other difference- you mentioned 'negative' tread, I can't imagine that the compound is different.
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      08-15-2011, 03:12 AM   #11
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Don't know about the compound, but big difference in lap times. But is I said already, for your daily driven car the + is better (less hydroplaning).
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      08-20-2011, 10:14 AM   #12
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Found this regarding the MSC+ from Car and Driver. Pretty much sums up the experience with my tires- not particularly faster, but do hold up better.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...olt-ons_page_2

Looking at the picture of the tire you can see they have scrubbed quite a lot of the sidewall, making me think they had them inflated pretty low on the track. They are no stranger to track days, so I wonder if that is what they found works the best? You can also see the extra groove in the sidewall that is the difference between the + and the non +.
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      08-20-2011, 03:10 PM   #13
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yes, + are good for dd but not optimal for track.
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