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      08-18-2011, 02:06 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Now you wanna compare both kits let's do some 40mph roll runs and watch the tables turn... Turn your Meth off they will turn even more
Zim - didnt your car dyno like 90whp more then Ak's car and my friends Alexs car. How does it make sense that all 3 cars are trapping 120mph give or take 1-2mph. Even with traction issues i thought your car would be closer to 130range at that power level...
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      08-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigymb View Post
Zim - didnt your car dyno like 90whp more then Ak's car and my friends Alexs car. How does it make sense that all 3 cars are trapping 120mph give or take 1-2mph. Even with traction issues i thought your car would be closer to 130range at that power level...
Not quite sure how but what I do know is I had wheel spin 200+ ft down the track ( 1st 2nd & all of 3rd ) and I was side by side with AK , not sure what his idea of wheel spin is but mine would fully spin 1st 2nd & 3rd now when I say fully I mean spinning and switching gears and spinning and switching gears .. Some people get minor chirp and think that's spinning ... Pay attention to Ak's run and you will hear him chirp and chirp only not putting him down just clarifing what my idea and take of wheel spin is ..

I got one in car bloggie and 2 gopro's that will record the fun sunday I'm sure everyone would love to see .

Did you get the wheel spin I was getting when you trapped 118 ?
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      08-18-2011, 03:30 PM   #157
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lol you can't just full throttle your way down the strip if you haven't learned by now. I learn how to modulate my car through the day as i feel the track out. It's scary going 80 and feeling the whole back end move sides ways. I am no expert at this stuff i am still trying to figure stuff out that was my 3rd ever drag event.

if you think this is chirping and thats a 120 mph trap.
http://www.youtube.com/user/steven09...19/HediRdclU7w
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      08-18-2011, 03:36 PM   #158
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AK lets see how we stack up Sunday , good thing is I heard a Gintani kit was coming to the east coast and it would be epic if all 3 raced !!
Think about the drama on that one lol
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      08-18-2011, 03:50 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
AK lets see how we stack up Sunday , good thing is I heard a Gintani kit was coming to the east coast and it would be epic if all 3 raced !!
Think about the drama on that one lol
lol i am deff down, should be a good time. That would be epic if we all 3 raced and had a video of it. lol Drama...at least it made my day go by faster at work .
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      08-18-2011, 05:20 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigymb View Post
Zim - didnt your car dyno like 90whp more then Ak's car and my friends Alexs car. How does it make sense that all 3 cars are trapping 120mph give or take 1-2mph. Even with traction issues i thought your car would be closer to 130range at that power level...
I'm not nearly as technically savvy as the gentlemen in this discussion, but I would like to point out that AA redlines their SC cars at <8100 rpm, while ESS keeps theirs at 8400 rpm and some of the guys on here have custom ESS software that raises their redline to 8700 rpm and higher. Since the S65 engine horsepower delivery keeps climbing at the top end to redline, it is only logical that the higher redline ESS set-ups would show higher dyno results. But because in the real world that extra bit of redline is rarely used - and beceuse the AA kits seem to have a higher torque curve - the AA cars match up well with their ESS counterparts at the track/strip.
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      08-18-2011, 06:44 PM   #161
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For the record ESS cars make the most whp and wtq compared to any available kit for the E9X platform , on pump fuel with no Meth ....
When comparing two platforms both cars should be equal MT vs MT & DCT vs DCT period if you don't agree then you have an agenda against one or the other cause they both play a big roll ..
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      08-18-2011, 10:26 PM   #162
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Sunday is a fun day ! haha
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      08-18-2011, 10:42 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
For the record ESS cars make the most whp and wtq compared to any available kit for the E9X platform , on pump fuel with no Meth ....
When comparing two platforms both cars should be equal MT vs MT & DCT vs DCT period if you don't agree then you have an agenda against one or the other cause they both play a big roll ..
HUGE roll, imagine a GT-R or a Turbo S PDK with a 6MT, they would be completely different cars acceleration wise, the same applies to the E9X M3.
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      08-19-2011, 06:55 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigymb
Zim - didnt your car dyno like 90whp more then
Ak's car and my friends Alexs car. How does it make sense that
all
3 cars are trapping 120mph give or take 1-2mph. Even with
traction
issues i thought your car would be closer to 130range at that
power level...
It doesn't mean much to compare a DCT to 6MT (sorry Akh). For
starters the gears are different. The DCT has 7 speeds, and the
6MT has 6 speeds. A DCT will slaughter any 6MT both in trap
speed
and elapsed time.

Don't buy Sticky's BS that trap speed is all horsepower and isn't
affected by shift speed or gear ratios. PG put the nail in
Stickky's coffin beyond any shadow of a doubt with this research:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=361609

Here's a video PG put together for me just to demonstrate what
happens to near equal cars: DCT vs. 6MT. This is a vBox Racer
video of two ESS VT2-625 cars running against each other at the
drag strip. In this video, the 6MT actually has more horsepower
and is running in lower density altitude, and lower octane gas
than the DCT. The 6MT has 594whp, the DCT has 586whp. The 6MT
is
running in 331 density altitude, and DCT is running in 921
density
altitude. The 6MT is running 93 octane, the DCT is running 95
octane (but was also running 95 octane at the dyno). So no
matter
how you look at it, the 6MT had every advantage in its favor.
Yet
in spite of it, look what happens.



FYI, vBox Racer is a program PG put together to campare and race
cars based on their vBox files. The program converts each car's
vBox files to video and then shows what would happen if they
actually raced each other. The cars, race, speeds are perfectly
to scale. So when a car appears 1 car-length ahead in the video,
it really is 1 car-length ahead in the race.

In the race above, the DCT demolishes the 6MT in every way
possible. In spite of a horsepower and density altitude
disadvantage, the DCT beats the 6MT by 15.6+ car lengths, 1.364
seconds, and 8.955 MPH. So the next time you see somebody try to
compare a DCT to 6MT and tries to tell you they are equal, just
show them this video.

For more proof, look at this vBox Racer video. The last race in
this video is Drew's car vs. mine racing 60-130 MPH. Even though
I have more HP that Drew, I get slaughtered in the race just like
Zim got slaughtered in the drag race above.
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      08-19-2011, 07:01 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckistan
I'm not nearly as technically savvy as the
gentlemen in this discussion, but I would like to point out that
AA redlines their SC cars at <8100 rpm, while ESS keeps theirs at
8400 rpm and some of the guys on here have custom ESS software
that raises their redline to 8700 rpm and higher. Since the S65
engine horsepower delivery keeps climbing at the top end to
redline, it is only logical that the higher redline ESS set-ups
would show higher dyno results. But because in the real world that
extra bit of redline is rarely used - and beceuse the AA kits seem
to have a higher torque curve - the AA cars match up well with
their ESS counterparts at the track/strip.
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Let me see
if I can help out. There's a difference between the RPM where a
motor makes Max Power and where it has its redline. AA does not
reduce the redline to 8000 RPMs, but ESS does increase the redline
to 8600 RPMs. That doesn't mean it's custom software or that
anybody is running custom tunes, or that the increased redline
yields more power (it doesn't). All of the dyno results I'm about
to show you run factory tunes from ESS and AA. Even though ESS
raised the redline to 8600 RPMs, you will see that all of the cars
make max power below the normal 8400 RPM redline. That means that
an incresed redline does not increase the power for any of these
cars. The reason AA makes max power so much lower than ESS is
because the HKS blower is being over driven far above it's maximum
efficiency. Basically, the HKS blower is maxed out...and then
some. So it simply can't make power past a certain point -- 8400
RPM redline or not.

The following dyno chart should help demonstrate this. There's
three ESS cars and two AA cars -- all on indepdenant dynos (no
vendor dynos). All of these files are available in the Dyno
Database for you to download yourself and make the same comparison
if you wish (or a rebuttal comparison if you wish). The five cars
are as follows:

1. ESS VT2-625. Owner: M33. MaxHP=594@8325 RPM. Dyno
redline=8400 RPMs.
2. AA Stage-2+. Owner: Akh23456. MaxHP=501@7810 RPM. Dyno
redline=8265 RPMs.
3. ESS VT2-625. Owner: DLSJ5. MaxHP=586@8338 RPM. Dyno
redline=8410 RPMs.
4. ESS VT1-535. Owner: Albert. MaxHP=472@8335 RPM. Dyno
redline=8424 RPMs.
5. AA Stage-2+. Owner: Darwin. MaxHP=461@7735 RPM. Dyno
redline=8265 RPMs.

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      08-19-2011, 07:41 AM   #166
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Wow....never my initial comment would draw this much debate. Good stuff though. Can't wiat to see the video of this Sunday's smackdown in Jersey. LOL
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      08-19-2011, 07:50 AM   #167
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So whenever you guys race someone you ask them 6 mt or Auto? and if their auto you don't race because its not "fair".lol

So your saying when i race M33 i will lay a smack down because dct can over come 90 more horses? So if we know the outcome already why even race.

AA does reduce redline btw.
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      08-19-2011, 08:49 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
So whenever you guys race someone you ask them 6 mt or Auto? and if their auto you don't race because its not "fair".lol

So your saying when i race M33 i will lay a smack down because dct can over come 90 more horses? So if we know the outcome already why even race.

AA does reduce redline btw.
Whenever I'm racing for pinks, of course..... For example, I pulled next to this guy in a civic, which had 11" slicks in the rear, full roll cage, paracute on the back, massive wing, lowered, bunch of stickers, and was wearing a helmet. He rolls his window down, I ask..."Excuse me sir, do you have a manual or automatic transmission." I know not to race someone who has a different transmission. He says, "Manual you newb." I stare back in anger and say, "If I only had my friend's manual...I would so take you..."

[wakes up from dream]
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      08-19-2011, 08:55 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
So whenever you guys race someone you ask them 6 mt or Auto? and if their auto you don't race because its not "fair".lol

So your saying when i race M33 i will lay a smack down because dct can over come 90 more horses? So if we know the outcome already why even race.

AA does reduce redline btw.
DCT can overcome a lot of power. I've raced some serious cars with more power and won that were manual or traditional auto. Remember that during shifts, power is cut to the wheels. If it's a 3-4 shift race, that's a lot of time difference that's power to the wheels in DCT vs stick or auto.
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      08-19-2011, 09:09 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3 View Post
DCT can overcome a lot of power. I've raced some serious cars with more power and won that were manual or traditional auto. Remember that during shifts, power is cut to the wheels. If it's a 3-4 shift race, that's a lot of time difference that's power to the wheels in DCT vs stick or auto.
i know dct has some advantage but some people make it out to more that it really is. I know i can take higher hp cars i have raced many but didn't have a chance to take any videos. But when you race someone on the street do you go out and ask if their manual or auto or just run them because its fun to do. We have had this talk a few times, it probably get deleted in the older thread when we were going at it before with the Ess guys.
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      08-19-2011, 09:31 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOVCO View Post
Wow....never my initial comment would draw this much debate. Good stuff though. Can't wiat to see the video of this Sunday's smackdown in Jersey. LOL
Haha,we are friends and those runs are friendly runs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOVCO View Post
Whenever I'm racing for pinks, of course..... For example, I pulled next to this guy in a civic, which had 11" slicks in the rear, full roll cage, paracute on the back, massive wing, lowered, bunch of stickers, and was wearing a helmet. He rolls his window down, I ask..."Excuse me sir, do you have a manual or automatic transmission." I know not to race someone who has a different transmission. He says, "Manual you newb." I stare back in anger and say, "If I only had my friend's manual...I would so take you..."

[wakes up from dream]

Good one !
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      08-19-2011, 09:39 AM   #172
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Guys, why are you polluting this thread with this kit vs that? When you meet on Sunday you should bring a ruler and measure who has a bigger cack and be done with it!

Drew, looking forward to more updates of your build bro!
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      08-19-2011, 09:49 AM   #173
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JFC... keep this thread on topic. If some AA folks want to brag about their kits then start a new thread. Stikky is worthless, again start a new thread.

This thread is about Drew's fricken amazing ESS Stage 3 build and full disclosure while doing so. This is something that no others have done. Talk is cheap, but full documentation speaks massive volumes! I cannot wait to see NEW THREADS to compare this final product. Yes, NEW THREADS to compare this ESS Stage 3 to other S/C cars!


Oh, and Happy Friday everyone!!!
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      08-19-2011, 10:16 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer_kidd View Post
Guys, why are you polluting this thread with this kit vs that? When you meet on Sunday you should bring a ruler and measure who has a bigger cack and be done with it!

Drew, looking forward to more updates of your build bro!
Wanna join us ? haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglare View Post
JFC... keep this thread on topic. If some AA folks want to brag about their kits then start a new thread. Stikky is worthless, again start a new thread.

This thread is about Drew's fricken amazing ESS Stage 3 build and full disclosure while doing so. This is something that no others have done. Talk is cheap, but full documentation speaks massive volumes! I cannot wait to see NEW THREADS to compare this final product. Yes, NEW THREADS to compare this ESS Stage 3 to other S/C cars!


Oh, and Happy Friday everyone!!!
I agree ,lets see what happens sunday and keep this thread for the build plz !
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      08-19-2011, 10:43 AM   #175
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lol Sorry Drew again....Whats the eta on the Beast?
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      08-19-2011, 01:45 PM   #176
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Quote:
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lol Sorry Drew again....Whats the eta on the Beast?
The motor is assembled, so we're getting close.
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