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      08-13-2011, 06:15 PM   #1
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Obamacare?

So we are now SCOTUS bound with Obamacare. Pity that pesky individual mandate thing seems to have tubed his overreaching healthcare initiative. Of course the dems will bend heaven and earth to keep that from happening before the '12 election. Is it too soon to remove Obamacare from the lengthy list of his significant "accomplishments"?
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      08-13-2011, 06:34 PM   #2
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Haha. Yesterday an appeals court said the individual mandate was unconstitutional by 2:1 with a judge appointed by Clinton voting to say it's unconstitutional as well. The Supreme Court will ultimately decide whether or not it's constitutional but my money is that it isn't. And that will come as a huge blow to Obama as the decision will come just a few months before the elections.
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      08-13-2011, 10:41 PM   #3
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If you want a discussion on healthcare reform, don't title the thread "obamacare". Also, insulting democrats in the first post is pretty dumb too.

Maybe you should think about how the same individual mandate has been in place for years in Massachusetts, with no challenge. Maybe mass isn't part of the US.

But what I really don't understand is why you teabaggers are pro-freeloading, and against people paying their fair share.
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      08-14-2011, 12:55 AM   #4
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The funniest part is that the mandate was ADDED to Obamacare to appease Republicans. It wasn't part of the original bill.

Last edited by 11Series; 08-14-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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      08-14-2011, 07:58 AM   #5
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In retrospect it might have been smarter for obama to spend his valuable time and political capital on jobs and the economy. But, the agenda must be realized! When this one-term president exits stage left he will have only a legacy of screwing up the country and doing nothing to fix what ails us. Maybe voters will learn that experience and real life accomplishment actually does count for something.
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      08-14-2011, 08:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
In retrospect it might have been smarter for obama to spend his valuable time and political capital on jobs and the economy. But, the agenda must be realized! When this one-term president exits stage left he will have only a legacy of screwing up the country and doing nothing to fix what ails us. Maybe voters will learn that experience and real life accomplishment actually does count for something.
You just started this thread so you could make this little speech of yours, because deep-down you know that none of these republican flakes stand a chance in hell of beating Obama. And with that, I'm done "debating" with you - what a joke.
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      08-14-2011, 09:45 AM   #7
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The funniest part is that the mandate was ADDED to Obamacare to appease Republicans. It wasn't part of the original bill.
Ahahahahahhaha!!!!!! You are so stupid. Please tell me where you're getting these facts from. So you're saying they wanted the individual mandate in the hc bill so that they could later waste time and money suing the law? And yes, Obamacare is socialist because the tax payers are paying for the health insurance of those that don't have any. And this law has made the government way too big, already.
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      08-14-2011, 11:13 AM   #8
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yes, Obamacare is socialist because the tax payers are paying for the health insurance of those that don't have any. And this law has made the government way too big, already.
unbelievable!! You're describing what we HAD. Now the people that didn't have any are paying to have it, instead of freeloading off the system. You absolutely don't understand anything.
And the law has barely gone into affect, it has not and will not make govt any bigger. Does paying your auto insurance make govt bigger? Foolishness.
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      08-14-2011, 11:18 AM   #9
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Auto insurance is only mandatory if you own a car, not if you don't and the BMW owner isn't responsible for having to pay auto insurance for someone who doesn't have any.
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      08-14-2011, 11:50 AM   #10
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Auto insurance is only mandatory if you own a car, not if you don't and the BMW owner isn't responsible for having to pay auto insurance for someone who doesn't have any.
Do you understand how insurance works? And you still don't get it. We're not paying for them, they're paying for themselves. That's the whole concept.
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      08-14-2011, 12:16 PM   #11
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Truth be told, I could care less about the individual mandate. What worries me most in this law is everything else that's written in fine print that will destroy small businesses (both in the medical and non-medical professions).
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      08-15-2011, 07:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Truth be told, I could care less about the individual mandate. What worries me most in this law is everything else that's written in fine print that will destroy small businesses (both in the medical and non-medical professions).
Could you please provide us with some of that actual fine print to prove your point. Or do we have to just trust your gut?
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      08-16-2011, 08:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Truth be told, I could care less about the individual mandate. What worries me most in this law is everything else that's written in fine print that will destroy small businesses (both in the medical and non-medical professions).
Again, angel, what exact wording in the law are you afraid of? Can you please cite your reason for being afraid this law will destroy small businesses.
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      08-16-2011, 09:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Truth be told, I could care less about the individual mandate. What worries me most in this law is everything else that's written in fine print that will destroy small businesses (both in the medical and non-medical professions).
Again, angel, what exact wording in the law are you afraid of? Can you please cite your reason for being afraid this law will destroy small businesses.
Yes, it'll force business to pay hefty fines if they don't buy appropriate health insurance for their employees. As being someone whose family is in the medical field I know what hospitals are doing. They are starting to employ the doctors so that the doctors will be paid by the hospital instead of the insurances, this means less payments for doctors which results in worse care for patients. The larger corporations like IPC and others are also buying out smaller physician and specialist groups and employing them. This is happening because the little guys are being afraid Obamacare will destroy their businesses by making too many regulations and raising prices so high for doctors to do business that they'll go out of business. Also, the
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      08-16-2011, 09:34 AM   #15
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What???? Where'd the rest of my text go??? I wrote so much and it failed to upload it, damn it.
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      08-16-2011, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Yes, it'll force business to pay hefty fines if they don't buy appropriate health insurance for their employees. As being someone whose family is in the medical field I know what hospitals are doing. They are starting to employ the doctors so that the doctors will be paid by the hospital instead of the insurances, this means less payments for doctors which results in worse care for patients. The larger corporations like IPC and others are also buying out smaller physician and specialist groups and employing them. This is happening because the little guys are being afraid Obamacare will destroy their businesses by making too many regulations and raising prices so high for doctors to do business that they'll go out of business. Also, the
So you're saying Doctors don't really care to provide good health care unless they are paid top dollar?
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      08-16-2011, 10:47 AM   #17
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So you're saying Doctors don't really care to provide good health care unless they are paid top dollar?
Damn, I was just going to say this...

I make this one point. The way the our system is set up with student loans, etc. Most docs tend to have school related debt well into their 30's. It is important that they receive proper compensation for the time, money and effort they put in. One must also realize the cost of going to medical school has increased with the cost of health care in the country. Schools know that these students stand to make more money in the future so they up their tuition knowing full well the students will be taking out a loan to pay for it anyway.

My roommate is an international salesman for a surgical instrument company. He reminds me every time he comes back from his trip of the fact that this country (ignoring the cost) is the only place in the world he would ever want to get surgery in. People simply don't understand just how much better our ability to medically our assist patients is.
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      08-16-2011, 11:48 AM   #18
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Doctors obviously don't put money first, but it is important when they have to pay for equipment, malpractice insurance, nurses, offices, and all types of other salaries. Primary doctors are shrinking in size because they don't get paid enough to compensate the office fees and salaries of their employees. Doctors will always try their best to care for their patents no matter what but when they get paid less that quality lowers.
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      08-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Ahahahahahhaha!!!!!! You are so stupid. Please tell me where you're getting these facts from. So you're saying they wanted the individual mandate in the hc bill so that they could later waste time and money suing the law? And yes, Obamacare is socialist because the tax payers are paying for the health insurance of those that don't have any. And this law has made the government way too big, already.

The original Obama healthcare bill DID NOT have an individual mandate. In fact, Obama campaigned AGAINST there being an individual mandate. Obama is actually getting HIS way if the individual mandate is excised from the law.

The idea of the individual mandate came from Republicans Bob Dole, Trent Lott, Richard Lugar, Charles Grassley, Jesse Helms, and Orin Hatch, back in 1993 when these Republicans added the individual mandate to the Clinton healthcare bill. In March of 2009 the Individual Mandate was added to the Obama bill to appease this group of Republicans during negotiations with these Republicans.

It is true that OTHER Republicans came to oppose it, and use it against the bill by the time it was passed in 2010. Some Republicans had different opinions about the individual mandate than others. That doesn't change the fact that the individual mandate was a Republican idea dating back to 1993, and that it was NOT in Obama's original plan, and the fact that it was added in an attempt to appease THESE PARTICULAR Republicans who originally came up with the idea in 1993.

I'm sorry you don't know your history, but I think it is funny that it looks like Obama may very well get his own way after all.



http://www.thenation.com/blog/162765...d-medicare-all

Last edited by 11Series; 08-16-2011 at 03:24 PM.
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      08-16-2011, 03:22 PM   #20
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I make this one point. The way the our system is set up with student loans, etc. Most docs tend to have school related debt well into their 30's.
Wouldn't it be easier to fix this root problem with the spiraling cost of medical education, than to have to endure ever-ballooning, spiraling healthcare costs in an attempt to handle the problem much later?

Having healthcare costs cover the problem of spiraling med school costs is like coming up with an expensive advanced solution to save millions of children from the brink of death due to late stages of Scurvy, instead of just making sure kids got enough vitamin C, so they never got Scurvy in the first place.
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      08-16-2011, 03:23 PM   #21
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Haha, you do realize that if Obama gets his way by getting the individual mandate repealed because it's unconstitutional then the entire health law will be ruined. The white house has said multiple times that the individual mandate is necessary in order to have their law work; without it the law is screwed. Even if there were republicans who supported it in 1993 that was 18 years ago and things have changed. You can't say the liberals made this law to appease a few republicans who wanted it 18 years ago, and it so central to the law that without it everything is lost.
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      08-16-2011, 03:32 PM   #22
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Haha, you do realize that if Obama gets his way by getting the individual mandate repealed because it's unconstitutional then the entire health law will be ruined. The white house has said multiple times that the individual mandate is necessary in order to have their law work; without it the law is screwed. Even if there were republicans who supported it in 1993 that was 18 years ago and things have changed. You can't say the liberals made this law to appease a few republicans who wanted it 18 years ago, and it so central to the law that without it everything is lost.

It will have to be amended to add back the public option. Fixed.


Yes, the health care law WAS amended in order to appease THIS GROUP of senior Republicans many who were still in the Congress 18 years later. Again, I'm sorry you do not know your history. Yes, the modern Tea Party Republican Party HAS turned against these older members. Take Orin Hatch for example. He's now gone. That doesn't change the fact that AT THE TIME in March 2009 that the individual mandate was added to appease these old farts of the Republican Party.

I know you guys want to run away from your own history of failed Republicans like Bush, Hatch, Dole, Helms, Lott, Luger, Grassley, etc. But pretending it didn't happen is a lie, and it only makes you look like a clueless 18 year old who doesn't know history.
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