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      08-04-2011, 11:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
if things go badly and we have severe inflation from clandestone QE 3 and 4, yes I will be paying 10.00 a gallon cause I cant ride my bike to work.

Since you prob dont work, wont effect you as much....
Classic example of Tea Party small mindedness. With all the petroleum alternatives already here, or headed to the market over the next decade, all you can come up with is riding your bike, or not working at all.

Sad.

Oh well. I'll wave to you as I drive by in style.
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      08-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Classic example of Tea Party small mindedness. With all the petroleum alternatives already here, or headed to the market over the next decade, all you can come up with is riding your bike, or not working at all.

Sad.

Oh well. I'll wave to you as I drive by in style.
On a more friendly note, I did have a Tesla Model S on order for next yr but decided I was too lazy to plug it in every day...got a BMW instead and I am really loving the 15mpg I am getting now......

Kinda wishing I had a Tesla now....
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      08-04-2011, 11:59 AM   #25
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Three years ago we heard all the doom and gloom from the right wing nabobs of negativity, who claimed that Obama becoming President was going to end the United States. All the right wing survivalists talking about stocking up on guns and ammo, stocking up shelf-stable food for the immanent downfall of all civilized society when the stock market was dropping into the 6,000's. Go back and read some blog posts from just about any public forum in late 2008/9 and you will find all that crazy "the world is about to end" nuttery the right was spewing. Personally, I ignored all that right wing fear mongering and made out like a bandit.

This of course was just 6 months after the very same right wing folks kept insisting that Candidate Obama was absolutely wrong when he said there were serious problems in with the Bush economy. The same right-wingers who denied up and down that the Bush Recession even existed, with their "fundamentals of the economy is strong" junk. Personally, I was already well positioned while tons of right wing financial folks were caught completely flat footed.

So forgive us if large chunks of the US population have LEARNED that the right wing is a terrible source for economic forecasting. Or even for clear eyed analysis of current economic conditions.

If we would have followed you guys, GM would have been liquidated by folks like Mitt Romney who make money tearing apart companies, instead of where we are today:

"GM Roars Past Earnings Expectations"

"General Motors continued its turnaround as it posted big jumps in both quarterly sales and profit that were much better than expected.

The nation's No. 1 automaker, barely two years past its federal bailout and bankruptcy, reported Thursday that it earned $2.5 billion in the second quarter"

http://www.wfmz.com/automotive/28762513/detail.html


Given the right wing's poor record of recognizing the economic present, much less predicting the economic future, forgive me if I blow off all the right wing lip flapping. The only thing I'm seeing from the right wing are policies that are KNOWN to kill jobs or ship them overseas, while enriching the top 5%. So as long as we can keep the right wing out of power, we'll survive this downturn just like we survived the Great Depression.

Last edited by 11Series; 08-04-2011 at 02:23 PM.
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      08-04-2011, 09:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
On a more friendly note, I did have a Tesla Model S on order for next yr but decided I was too lazy to plug it in every day...got a BMW instead and I am really loving the 15mpg I am getting now......

Kinda wishing I had a Tesla now....
How dare you consider an electric pig over the wondrous V8 of an M3! Hahaha
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      08-04-2011, 09:35 PM   #27
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Ding Ding Ding we have a winner...finally I am hearing some sensible talk!...Mr 11 feels we will grow like the 50's...I gave him 5 reasons why it wont happen but he doesnt see it.

3/4 of the growth in 2000's, until the crash, was people tapping their home equity ATM's...this cash register not available anymore...and without a new industry to promote true growth, we will be stagant and dependent on the Feds and the govt to artifically create growth for us, but this causes inflation, which in turn will cause an economic downturn in itself...so in a sense, we are allowing the "haves" to maintain their 401K's while letting the poor who cannot take the inflationary insult while on govt handouts while unemployed.
One thing I should make clear is that we need to be careful how much and how rapidly we attack inflation. Anti-inflationary measures in a weak economy/recession can easily result in a major depression; this is exactly what the Federal Reserve did after the run on the Banks in 1929, which helped catapult the country into the Great Depression.

What is really scary is that we have no more tools at our disposal to help stimulate the economy. Our debt is so astronomically high and our interest rates so low that there is very little, if anything, at disposal for the government to do.
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      08-05-2011, 12:44 AM   #28
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One thing I should make clear is that we need to be careful how much and how rapidly we attack inflation. Anti-inflationary measures in a weak economy/recession can easily result in a major depression; this is exactly what the Federal Reserve did after the run on the Banks in 1929, which helped catapult the country into the Great Depression.

What is really scary is that we have no more tools at our disposal to help stimulate the economy. Our debt is so astronomically high and our interest rates so low that there is very little, if anything, at disposal for the government to do.
We have plenty of tools. It is just that the Tea Party Republicans refuse to acknowledge any of them because they are dogmatically opposed to them.

Tell me what tools the gov't used during and after the Great Depression. Hint: Go look at the dedication plaque on your downtown schools and parks, along with nearby bridges and dams.
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      08-05-2011, 01:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
We have plenty of tools. It is just that the Tea Party Republicans refuse to acknowledge any of them because they are dogmatically opposed to them.

Tell me what tools the gov't used during and after the Great Depression. Hint: Go look at the dedication plaque on your downtown schools and parks, along with nearby bridges and dams.
Infrastructure projects are all well and good, but as I mentioned, we simply don't have the financial means to carry out these projects. That is, not without cutting spending SIGNIFICANTLY somewhere else.
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      08-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #30
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Infrastructure projects are all well and good, but as I mentioned, we simply don't have the financial means to carry out these projects. That is, not without cutting spending SIGNIFICANTLY somewhere else.
OK, so we agree that we have tools that were successful in the Great Depression, but you don't want to use them because we would go into debt to use them.

or there is another option....

How did they fund the infrastructure projects in the Great Depression?
Hint: Revenue Act of 1932

How did Clinton fund the balancing the budget? Reagan ran up the debt to 17-18 Trillion dollars (adjusted for inflation). Reagan put us in worse debt in the 80's than we are now, and Clinton was still able to balance the budget. Clinton did something to the tax code that helped balance the budget... What was it again???
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      08-05-2011, 04:19 PM   #31
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OK, so we agree that we have tools that were successful in the Great Depression, but you don't want to use them because we would go into debt to use them.

or there is another option....

How did they fund the infrastructure projects in the Great Depression?
Hint: Revenue Act of 1932

How did Clinton fund the balancing the budget? Reagan ran up the debt to 17-18 Trillion dollars (adjusted for inflation). Reagan put us in worse debt in the 80's than we are now, and Clinton was still able to balance the budget. Clinton did something to the tax code that helped balance the budget... What was it again???
Clinton had something at his disposal that we do not: a GROWING ECONOMY. Same goes for 1932. You are advocating raising taxes in a stagnant/receding economic climate??

You will get your infrastructure built, but at the cost of throwing the economy into a deeper recession than before.
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      08-05-2011, 04:59 PM   #32
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Clinton had something at his disposal that we do not: a GROWING ECONOMY. Same goes for 1932. You are advocating raising taxes in a stagnant/receding economic climate??

You will get your infrastructure built, but at the cost of throwing the economy into a deeper recession than before.
I find it funny that you call the early days of the Great Depression, and the late 1980's days of Stagflation "growing economies". By that standard, we were in a "growing economy" last year, before austerity drug us down.

More important than infrastructure, we would have JOBS, pulling us out of our current economic situation. Jobs will turn us around, nothing else.
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      08-05-2011, 05:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I find it funny that you call the early days of the Great Depression, and the late 1980's days of Stagflation "growing economies". By that standard, we were in a "growing economy" last year, before austerity drug us down.

More important than infrastructure, we would have JOBS, pulling us out of our current economic situation. Jobs will turn us around, nothing else.
I was talking about the early/mid '90s (Clinton years) when they raised revenues, not the late '80s. Stagflation years were an absolute nightmare, no doubt about it. And it didn't help that we had an insane Fed chairman (Volker).

P.S. - Stagflation was more of an issue in the late '70s/early '80s. Also, it was largely due to the oil crisis of the '70s, when there was a tremendous supply shock that sent oil prices skyrocketing.

Last edited by Echo M3; 08-05-2011 at 05:50 PM.
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