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View Poll Results: What is the M3 to you?
Sports Car 56 36.60%
Sporty GT 97 63.40%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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      07-28-2011, 09:28 AM   #45
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If M3 is a sports car, then Toyota Corolla S is also a sports car.
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      07-28-2011, 09:37 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I don't agree with this entirely. There are many sports cars that have all or most of these items. Come on a sports car cannot have climate control, does that mean heating and AC or just those with an automatic setting?

Also what production car does not lean slightly or even heavily toward understeer.

Now that being said I also think you are on the right track to distinguish one car type from another. You just have not hit the nail on the head.
I was probably being a bit extreme - of course, a sports car can include air conditioning and heating.

But I think you get the gist of my post; the M3, to me, does not feel like a true sports car. I then went on to try and define what makes the M3 not sporty, but that is clearly a highly debatable subject. As another poster has already explained, the M3 fits into a niche between the standard sedan and a true, hardcore two-seater sports car. I just happen to think that this niche is the GT class.
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      07-28-2011, 09:59 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
I was probably being a bit extreme - of course, a sports car can include air conditioning and heating.

But I think you get the gist of my post; the M3, to me, does not feel like a true sports car. I then went on to try and define what makes the M3 not sporty, but that is clearly a highly debatable subject. As another poster has already explained, the M3 fits into a niche between the standard sedan and a true, hardcore two-seater sports car. I just happen to think that this niche is the GT class.
Speed is definetly not the major determining point here. The problem of the M3 is being too soft and detached. I don't think there is a definite rule how big/heavy a sports car should be, but M3 is beyond that size and weight.
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      07-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuka View Post
I would take the M3 over a non GT 911 any day, speaking as someone who had a GT2 and a Turbo.
Fair enough, but that is a particular preference of yours (or anyone else's) and doesn't have any bearing on how the cars are actually classified.

Quote:
The GT cars are the only sports cars that Porsche makes today.
A Cayman isn't a sports car? You have to remember that subjective things like "harcored-ness" can't be considered reasonable means of establishing a classification system. You end up with nonsense.

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All other 911 variants don't even have the dry sump block that Porsche races with.

The GT cars are also the only ones that come only in manual so the pretender enthusiasts can't drive them, and before 997, no traction control for the hamfisted.
The next generation GT cars may very well give up the Mezger based engine, and they will almost certainly offer PDK. Yet they (like other 911) will very much remain purpose built sports cars. So here again, these factors you bring up are noteworthy but not really relevant when classifying the cars.

Like I said in an earlier post, a sports car is a car purposely built, from the ground up, for performance. It starts with the design of the unibody itself, and goes from there. A 911 absolutely fits this category. An M3 does not. An RX7, or even an RX8, does, and so does a miata. But a Camaro doesn't, nor technically does a Mustang (having started life way back when as a design based around Lincoln LS, though it was greatly modified and for cost reasons not for performance). A Lamborghini does, but a Rolls Royce doesn't. Etc, etc, etc. There's really not a whole lot of subjectivity to it, IMHO.
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      07-29-2011, 01:23 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post
i LOL too. Maybe because of the price , $150,000 US for an M3.
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      07-29-2011, 09:24 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
According to BMW USA it's a "racecar" that shouldn't be confined to racetracks. that about says it all..
Well if there is any ultimate authority on what constitutes a sports car or a race car it would certainly be an automobile manufacturer's marketing department.

Keep in mind that according to Nissan the Maxima is a "Four Door Spors Car"

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Last edited by captainaudio; 07-29-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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      07-29-2011, 01:32 PM   #51
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The true meaning of what a sports car is has been abandoned decades ago. Technology and design has enabled manufacturers to create hybrids of sports cars while compromising very little. Just because our cars offer comfort and more utility than a traditional sports car, does nothing to undermine its performance. I always thought GT was a marketing ploy to attrack those who wanted a balance between luxury, performance and utility? Hmm
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      07-29-2011, 02:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Just want to get a general idea of what people think. How many folks here think the M3 is a Sporty GT? A Sports Car?
All I gotta say is...

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      07-29-2011, 03:34 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuka View Post
996 GT3's has AC delete option.

Porsche GT cars do not understeer. They put in traction control in 997 because people kept stuffing the 996 GT2/3 into the walls or wrapping them around telephone poles.

M3's are GT's, no if's and but's.
Now you are really confusing me.

No one said anything about a AC delete OPTION. I only pointed out, and that poster agreed, that his list of defining features was a bit arbitrary.

997 is a GT???

Porsche's have traction control for the same exact reason that a huge number of cars have it - sports, GTs or any other category. Safety.

More back on topic I think mkoesel has hit the nail on the head here. A sports car is one designed from the ground up as one. Of course this offers some leeway to a somewhat arbitrary definition by a manufacturer. No concrete examples in mind but I am sure one exists.
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      07-29-2011, 04:01 PM   #54
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considering how much the m3 weights, its certainly no true 'sports car'
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      07-29-2011, 04:18 PM   #55
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How many Sporty GTs can you take to the track and compete against Porsches, Lotus's, Corvettes, etc??
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      07-29-2011, 04:39 PM   #56
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some people think expensive cars = sport cars
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      07-29-2011, 04:47 PM   #57
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Where are you guys getting these definitions?? Just your interpretation of the world?

Well here's mine:
Race car: purpose built. Impractical (or illegal) on the street
Sports car: Ready the track or AX without mods (ie able to participate in the world of motorSPORTS)
Sporty GT: Looks like a sports car (above) or accelerates like one, but isn't.

So in my mind, this makes an M3 a sports car. And plenty of people don't have any trouble with the brakes at the track. Just sayin'.
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      07-29-2011, 04:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd damon View Post
How many Sporty GTs can you take to the track and compete against Porsches, Lotus's, Corvettes, etc??
That's after you put in some proper race pads...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcreme View Post
Where are you guys getting these definitions?? Just your interpretation of the world?

Well here's mine:
Race car: purpose built. Impractical (or illegal) on the street
Sports car: Ready the track or AX without mods (ie able to participate in the world of motorSPORTS)
Sporty GT: Looks like a sports car (above) or accelerates like one, but isn't.

So in my mind, this makes an M3 a sports car. And plenty of people don't have any trouble with the brakes at the track. Just sayin'.

Most reviews I've read say that the pads suck for the track. Users themselves here have said they go mushy after just a couple laps.
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      07-29-2011, 04:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopherchenm View Post
some people think expensive cars = sport cars
Agreed.
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