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      05-25-2007, 07:45 PM   #1
Dammmittt
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M3 vs 335i

So...I'm thinking that the M3 is going to pretty much be in direct competition with the 335i w/PROcede. I'm kinda curious as to why BMW would give the 335 so much...and not give the M3 any more...the stats are way too close. I think M3 sales won't be as high cuz it's gonna cost a lot more than a 335i and the performance gain is little, and as you e90ers have been talking the suspension upgrades are also plentiful for the 335 as well.

So....what the hell is BMW thinking? You don't want to compete against yourself, cuz when people can save money and buy the "cheaper" car, what's that do to your M3 sales?

If you've talked about it in detail on e90post or m3post...great, good for you, hit me with the and move on.
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      05-25-2007, 08:00 PM   #2
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specs are specs....................but i'm sure the power and drive is completely different. you have to consider every inch of the cars.........
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      05-25-2007, 08:01 PM   #3
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BMW will have no problem selling the new M3 because the M3 is an exclusive car. People will buy the new M3 simply because it's an M3.

Is the 335i upgradable to match the performance of the new M3?
Yes, I'm sure it is!....BUT,

All the mods needed to upgrade the 335 to the performance of the new M3 (track and drag) will cost plenty of money and at the end of the day...you might as well buy the new M3 (assuming the MSRP will start around $55K as predicted!).

Procede, LSD, Full Exhaust, Intake, Suspensions etc...
So you have $5300 dollars in mods right there....

An M3 will always be an M3!!
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      05-25-2007, 08:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90ice View Post
BMW will have no problem selling the new M3 because the M3 is an exclusive car. People will buy the new M3 simply because it's an M3.[/size]
The E30 M3 was somewhat exclusive. The E46 M3 sold over 85,000 units - not so exclusive. The E9* M3 will sell even more, since it's apparently going to be offered in all the current E90 variants - coupe, cab, estate, sedan, rickshaw, etc...
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      05-25-2007, 08:46 PM   #5
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yeah seriously... LSD 2000, not crappy tires 1000, suspension, 2500, software/full exhaust 4000. boom. you're already minimum at 8000, realistically...installed, over 10 grand. BMW isn't stupid... people need to stop thinking they know something BMW doesnt.
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      05-25-2007, 08:58 PM   #6
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This discussion was held ad nauseum over on M3 post. I think it was pretty much agreed, even by those in the M camp, that the well equipped 335i + mods for $50K was at least = the anticipated $65K+ typically equipped M3.

BTW, in regards to weight, you can lose almost 50 lbs just by going to lightweight wheels.
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      05-25-2007, 09:00 PM   #7
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Heck, the e46 M3 is faster than a stock 335 by a bigger margin then some of you are lead to believe.
cough *BS*
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      05-25-2007, 10:23 PM   #8
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According to my sales advisor, it is always difficult to sell the M3s here in Canada.

However, M3 is a like cult and there are still, however minimal, a bunch of devolted customers willing to pay any price for a M'er.
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      05-25-2007, 11:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
cough *BS*
not true dude. there is no arguing that stock for stock as speeds increase the M3 will steadily walk away from a 335. up 100 mph it's about even.... but with increased speed, the larger displacement and the higher redline will prove the M3 as superior.
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      05-26-2007, 08:57 AM   #10
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It will not be as close as you think. According to what somebody mentioned in another post, the new M3 is going to be ~100 lbs lighter (carbon fiber roof, light weight V8) than the 335i and with 420hp, it will destroy any Procede equipped 335s. Heck, the e46 M3 is faster than a stock 335 by a bigger margin then some of you are lead to believe.
I disagree completely...first of all I own a 2003 6MT M3 coupe and a 2007 335i 6MT sedan. My M3 has PSS9's, full exhaust (incl. headers), intake, software and weighs in around 3,250 lbs. Stock for stock the M3 has the edge after about 70-80 mphs and definitely has a leg up in the triple digits. My M3 and my 335 are pretty close right now up to 100 or so but the M still pulls after that but it has about $10K in mods. The 335i with coilovers and a Procede will be very competitive with the upcoming M3 (LSD aside).
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      05-26-2007, 02:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1smo View Post
It will not be as close as you think. According to what somebody mentioned in another post, the new M3 is going to be ~100 lbs lighter (carbon fiber roof, light weight V8) than the 335i and with 420hp, it will destroy any Procede equipped 335s. Heck, the e46 M3 is faster than a stock 335 by a bigger margin then some of you are lead to believe.
then how come on the express way i beat e46 m3's all day with my 335...how come? i don't have a procede i had a 300 pound buddy in the car and we went at it with an m3 when i had a e90 loaner 335 and we spanked it...the m3 came up next to us and said: "damn that thing is fast" my best friends family owns an m3 and he and his brother just keep drooling over my e92 335!!!! with a procede i would spank any stock m3 on the planet...but the new one...i will leave that to the NEW rs4 and the NEW clk 63...both have like 480 hp and 486 ft/lb torque...how can a new e92 m3 handle that much power when it only has 420hp and 286 ft/lb torque(less than my 310 in my 335)....it seems sad that bmw has so little torque i think at least around 400 would have been great or at least 375 but 286 is a joke!!!!! the new rs4 is 10 k more but i would rather have a biturbo v8 than the NA V8 i suppose!!!! i know BMW makes power in the revs and hp but damn i can see how all the amg mercs are killing the m5 such as cls 55/63 e55/63 s55/63... in a straight line at least but on the highway is where most people go at it so what gives!!!!! you have to spend 30k to belong to a track to beat AMG's this seems like a joke...even my buddy with an 06 sti says he never felt power like my mom's s55...it will tear your neck off!!!! seriously i beat m5's all day in that s55 and yes i understand it is in a straight line of highway cruising and not a track but is BMW supposed to BE "THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE"....not...."THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE....TRACK ONLY".....It just seems shittie BMW is getting there ass handed to them and the car isn't even out yet in regards to hp/tq....it just pisses me of cause i LOVE AND AM OBSESSED W/ M CARS AND THIS BI TURBO N54!!!!!! sry just had to rant
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      05-26-2007, 02:19 PM   #12
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paragraphs are your friend
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      05-26-2007, 07:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post
not true dude. there is no arguing that stock for stock as speeds increase the M3 will steadily walk away from a 335. up 100 mph it's about even.... but with increased speed, the larger displacement and the higher redline will prove the M3 as superior.
Stock for Stock, 4 seconds of difference at N'ring. Those are 8+ minute laps, 4 seconds. Also, one of the highest speed tracks in the world.

The M3 and 335i are ~ no matter where you look for objctive data. You can argue about 100-150+ all you want, there are few roads or even tracks where those speeds matter in the US. And a simple $2 mod to the 335i will end all arguments no matter your venue, and the M3 does NOT come out on top.
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      05-27-2007, 02:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewidow View Post
then how come on the express way i beat e46 m3's all day with my 335...how come? i don't have a procede i had a 300 pound buddy in the car and we went at it with an m3 when i had a e90 loaner 335 and we spanked it...the m3 came up next to us and said: "damn that thing is fast" my best friends family owns an m3 and he and his brother just keep drooling over my e92 335!!!! with a procede i would spank any stock m3 on the planet...but the new one...i will leave that to the NEW rs4 and the NEW clk 63...both have like 480 hp and 486 ft/lb torque...how can a new e92 m3 handle that much power when it only has 420hp and 286 ft/lb torque(less than my 310 in my 335)....it seems sad that bmw has so little torque i think at least around 400 would have been great or at least 375 but 286 is a joke!!!!! the new rs4 is 10 k more but i would rather have a biturbo v8 than the NA V8 i suppose!!!! i know BMW makes power in the revs and hp but damn i can see how all the amg mercs are killing the m5 such as cls 55/63 e55/63 s55/63... in a straight line at least but on the highway is where most people go at it so what gives!!!!! you have to spend 30k to belong to a track to beat AMG's this seems like a joke...even my buddy with an 06 sti says he never felt power like my mom's s55...it will tear your neck off!!!! seriously i beat m5's all day in that s55 and yes i understand it is in a straight line of highway cruising and not a track but is BMW supposed to BE "THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE"....not...."THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE....TRACK ONLY".....It just seems shittie BMW is getting there ass handed to them and the car isn't even out yet in regards to hp/tq....it just pisses me of cause i LOVE AND AM OBSESSED W/ M CARS AND THIS BI TURBO N54!!!!!! sry just had to rant

Once i turned my moniter upside down it all made sense.

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      05-27-2007, 10:59 PM   #15
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I was disappointed when I read the specs of the E9* M3 with the V8. The torque is.... low. I am thinking of keeping my Z4M Coupe with the S54 and then supercharging it once the warranty runs out....
I have gone in a straight line with 335's. The Z4M is somewhat faster but not all that much faster. I have only done this to 100kph because the limit was 90kph on that road coming out of a red light. I refuse to get into "road races".
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      05-28-2007, 09:42 AM   #16
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The driving experience of a turbo will never be the same as a high revving NA motor.
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      05-28-2007, 10:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
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The driving experience of a turbo will never be the same as a high revving NA motor.
I agree, turbos are better.
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      05-28-2007, 10:54 AM   #18
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LAG
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      05-28-2007, 11:43 AM   #19
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LOL

Despite the fact that the world's most successful race cars (in all series where FI is not banned) and high performance piston planes are all forced induction, the "magical" NA crowd rears its head once again.

And what high revving NA engine? My GSXR race bike spun to 14K, and the Yammy's were spinning to 17.5K. My Ducati twin was a low revver and it had a redline much higher than the M3.
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      05-28-2007, 12:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewidow View Post
how can a new e92 m3 handle that much power when it only has 420hp and 286 ft/lb torque(less than my 310 in my 335)....it seems sad that bmw has so little torque i think at least around 400 would have been great or at least 375 but 286 is a joke!!!!!

seriously i beat m5's all day in that s55 and yes i understand it is in a straight line of highway cruising and not a track but is BMW supposed to BE "THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE"....not...."THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE....TRACK ONLY".....

You do realize this was the same debate that the prospective E60 M5 owners had before the car was released. As for AMGs beating M5's the only car that does are the 600 hp / 700 foot pound cars like the SL65. There are loads of vids on the net that will show you that, including the S55.



People wrongly focus on torque along....the E60 M5 proves this narrow view is just plain wrong. Horsepower is a measure of an engine's ability to do work over time. In the measure of SAE HP, revs are just as important as torque in the determination of the power of the engine.

The new M3 will rev up to 8300 rpm, combined with a flat torque curve and proper gearing, the new M3 will beat a proceed 335i significantly....assuming BMW gets the gearing right like they did in the E60 M5.
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      05-28-2007, 12:29 PM   #21
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No one knows what the new M3 will drive like yet. I agree it would be nice to have a little more torque (it always is) but, I'm sure the engine response of that motor will be awesome especially up top. Which is where the 335 motor is kind of flat with the stock turbos. Once there are some after market turbo choices I'm sure the 335 will be able to trounce the M3 on the top end but, we are longer talking stock for stock at that point.

Regarding handling I'm sure the M3 will be much more nimble and firm than the 335i. Again I'm sure there will be after market solutions for this as well. The same with braking.

I think the M3 will be hard to get appreciable gains out of not to mention incredibly expensive to mod. Lets face it you can make modding a 335 pretty damn expensive if you want to as well. The $8K supersprint turbo back is proof of that.

Now you've come to a point where you probably have better performance than the M3 but, have pretty much rendered your warranty null and void and spent as much or more money. So, what's that worth?

I really don't think BMW will have a hard time moving M3's. I think it will be considerably quicker than an RS4 given how heavy those car are and their quattro systems higher parasitic losses. It's not like competition wasn't already out there. They knew what they were up against.
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      05-28-2007, 03:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
LOL

Despite the fact that the world's most successful race cars (in all series where FI is not banned) and high performance piston planes are all forced induction, the "magical" NA crowd rears its head once again.

And what high revving NA engine? My GSXR race bike spun to 14K, and the Yammy's were spinning to 17.5K. My Ducati twin was a low revver and it had a redline much higher than the M3.
Brilliant. I love when people compare bikes to cars.
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