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      07-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #23
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Hey 3XTR3M3, your lack of comprehension as to how someone could possibly want a convertible is a bit close minded. Let's refer to all verts here and not just M3's. A 911 turbo cab, a 430 spider, 458 spider, (due out soon), a gallardo ragtop, a pagani, a Mclaren SLR, an SLS (vert due out soon). People buy these cars because they want a convertible and could care less if the performance of that convertible is a few tenths off of their coupe counterparts. The coupe version of these cars lacks something the vert owner is looking for. If you're turned off to the mere concept of a convertible, nothing said here will sway you. For me, I wanted a vert with 4 seats that had enough power to get into trouble with on occasion. This is my 12th BMW and I've had every model. This car is one of the most enjoyable BMW's I've had. Curious as to your views on 4 door sedans with the performance of an exotic car???? Do you think its just absurd for someone to buy a car like that? I mean, if they want sportscar performance, buy a sports car, right?
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      07-21-2011, 03:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Here is what I dont really understand with guys buying M3 verts. When you purchase (pay the price) for an M3, you are paying for the perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny to utilize that weight balance, you are paying for the perfect structure and rigidity, you are paying for the performance and handling. This is what you are paying for in an M3. You pay extra money over a 3 series to get these benefits.

THEN, you pay BMW extra money to cut off your roof and b piller, destroying the rigidity and structural firmness of the car, you pay extra to add a considerable amount of weight and throw off the perfect weight balance which the handling and performance is dependent on (also dependent on the structure that has now been tampered with), all for putting the roof down?

So here is the math... You pay a nice price for perfectly balanced performance car THEN you pay extra to tamper with that perfect balance.

I just dont get it. I dont mean this in ANY offensive way at all and I really hope it does not sound that way. Again, I just dont think I really get the concept.

EDIT: If I ever wanted a BMW vert, I would get a 328vert because obviously the performance does not matter as much as the joys of having the top down. Some might say "what if I want the power AND the top down?!" in that case I would suggest a 335 vert with a tune (which I would feel is still a bit of waste of money but can understanding someone wanting a powerful vert as a daily driver). But I can not understand a M3 vert.
Wow....Now that's what you call:

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      07-21-2011, 03:17 PM   #25
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.."I'm not here to piss on anyone's parade"...

Dude you have already pissed off lots of people me incuded, just stick to answering OP's questions, else thismay degenerate into a different animal
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      07-21-2011, 03:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
When you purchase (pay the price) for an M3, you are paying for the perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny to utilize that weight balance, you are paying for the perfect structure and rigidity, you are paying for the performance and handling. This is what you are paying for in an M3. You pay extra money over a 3 series to get these benefits.

THEN, you pay BMW extra money to cut off your roof and b piller, destroying the rigidity and structural firmness of the car, you pay extra to add a considerable amount of weight and throw off the perfect weight balance which the handling and performance is dependent on (also dependent on the structure that has now been tampered with), all for putting the roof down?

...

EDIT: If I ever wanted a BMW vert, I would get a 328vert because obviously the performance does not matter as much as the joys of having the top down. Some might say "what if I want the power AND the top down?!" in that case I would suggest a 335 vert with a tune (which I would feel is still a bit of waste of money but can understanding someone wanting a powerful vert as a daily driver). But I can not understand a M3 vert.
Well, to this, this vert owner says:

I don't really care about all the stuff you mention in the first paragraph because I test drove the car before I bought it and it provided the performance I wanted despite all the compromises that you mention in your second paragraph.

You bring up an E93 3 series. So are you saying that if someone stole this 328i or 335i that you theoretically bought and then returned it the next day with an M3 engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, etc, you'd be pissed off? Not a chance.

The only question then, is value. For us E93 M3 owners, we are willing to pay the premium just to get the M treatment, despite the hit the convertible takes in performance vs. the M3 coupe. And as compard to a E93 335i or 335is, that of course has all the negatives of an E93 M3, with none of the positives of an M car. The simple fact is that you buy an E93 M3 instead of an E93 3 series because its a much more fun to car to drive.
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      07-21-2011, 03:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3keash View Post
I think we made the best decision. GT-R's are apparently very expensive to maintain.
They're actually not all that bad

and 3XTR3M3, I wasn't taking anything you said offensively, just as I know what you said wasn't meant to be in an offensive matter.

Sorry if things got confusing :P

And in regards to perfect balance, perfect engine...

A Cayman will out handle an e92 M3. A Cayman S will be just as quick in a straight line.
This is just one example...I'm not saying the Cayman has perfect balance or perfect engine.
You're right, the M3 is close to 50/50 perfect balance, but it's not there yet, thus it's not "perfect." That's what I was trying to say... I didn't say the M3 was bad, just that it's not "perfect" (I don't personally think any car out there is perfect)

and in regards to the engine, I don't think it's perfect.
I don't think any engine is perfect...but nonetheless, you said without going to super car territory...but you never said that originally. you simply said "perfect engine"
I was take the GT3RS Engine any day
I love the S65. It's the best engine I've ever personally owned and driven... but I know it's not perfect.
If it was indeed perfect, people wouldn't be developing pulleys, filters, S/c kits, strokers....

All in all, the m3 (e90 92 93) are all great cars, but they each have their faults and are not perfect. But that doesn't mean it's not the perfect car for someone
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      07-21-2011, 03:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Bahahaha no just asking because Ive noticed a good number of vert drivers are taller in general.
I'm 5'11

and I don't fit in an e90 with a helmet... my head hits the top or side, even with the seat all the way
no issue in an e93 or 92 though
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      07-21-2011, 03:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The only question then, is value. For us E93 M3 owners, we are willing to pay the premium just to get the M treatment, despite the hit the convertible takes in performance vs. the M3 coupe. And as compard to a E93 335i or 335is, that of course has all the negatives of an E93 M3, with none of the positives of an M car. The simple fact is that you buy an E93 M3 instead of an E93 3 series because its a much more fun to car to drive.
Not all of us had to

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      07-21-2011, 03:57 PM   #30
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To get back to one of the OP's questions, I put my golf bag in the back seat with the seat folded down and in a slight angle. Fits fine and could probably put two bags back there if I wanted.
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      07-21-2011, 04:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poleposition View Post
Hey 3XTR3M3, your lack of comprehension as to how someone could possibly want a convertible is a bit close minded. Let's refer to all verts here and not just M3's. A 911 turbo cab, a 430 spider, 458 spider, (due out soon), a gallardo ragtop, a pagani, a Mclaren SLR, an SLS (vert due out soon). People buy these cars because they want a convertible and could care less if the performance of that convertible is a few tenths off of their coupe counterparts. The coupe version of these cars lacks something the vert owner is looking for. If you're turned off to the mere concept of a convertible, nothing said here will sway you. For me, I wanted a vert with 4 seats that had enough power to get into trouble with on occasion. This is my 12th BMW and I've had every model. This car is one of the most enjoyable BMW's I've had. Curious as to your views on 4 door sedans with the performance of an exotic car???? Do you think its just absurd for someone to buy a car like that? I mean, if they want sportscar performance, buy a sports car, right?
Another defensive comment lol. I keep saying over and over and over that its just my preference and I wanted to hear vert owners mentality behind it and that means I'm closed minded?!? For asking questions so I understand better??? Really? Trying to educate myself on a different form of thinking is closed minded to you? Wow man.

I MEAN NO HARM!! YOUR M3 VERT IS AWESOME! I HAVE NO QUESTIONS OR OPINIONS!!! ALL HAIL THE M3 VERT.

Jesus, what does a guy gotta say around here so people dont get their panties in a bunch?
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      07-21-2011, 04:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Duo View Post
.."I'm not here to piss on anyone's parade"...

Dude you have already pissed off lots of people me incuded, just stick to answering OP's questions, else thismay degenerate into a different animal
LOL why tho?!? Why you so mad??? I whole heartedly asked a question and just because you dont like it, you're mad? I did not insult anyone or deceive/manipulate the info I was using to support my opinion.

Grow up.
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      07-21-2011, 04:12 PM   #33
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Ignorance is bliss
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      07-21-2011, 04:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Well, to this, this vert owner says:

I don't really care about all the stuff you mention in the first paragraph because I test drove the car before I bought it and it provided the performance I wanted despite all the compromises that you mention in your second paragraph.

You bring up an E93 3 series. So are you saying that if someone stole this 328i or 335i that you theoretically bought and then returned it the next day with an M3 engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, etc, you'd be pissed off? Not a chance.

The only question then, is value. For us E93 M3 owners, we are willing to pay the premium just to get the M treatment, despite the hit the convertible takes in performance vs. the M3 coupe. And as compard to a E93 335i or 335is, that of course has all the negatives of an E93 M3, with none of the positives of an M car. The simple fact is that you buy an E93 M3 instead of an E93 3 series because its a much more fun to car to drive.
Thanks for the response. So all in all its for fun and a lifestyle type of decision.

So it comes down to someone finding more fun with the top down than the performance advantage of not having the top down. I get it. Thanks again.
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      07-21-2011, 04:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Ignorance is bliss
Yea, ok.
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      07-21-2011, 04:30 PM   #36
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The weight distribution of the e93 while not the same as the coupe is also very close to 50/50.

Just wait 2 months when I put in buckets and rip out my rear seats. Between that and my hood, trunk, full akra, bbk etc I should be right around coupe weight. Now that's going to be alot of fun/awesome!

Some may call me crazy for doing it but I love my E93, of course I don't have your average e93 but they are alot of fun.

I do agree they are at a great disadvantage weight and rigidity wise.
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      07-21-2011, 05:31 PM   #37
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I thought you can't changed to buckets in a vert cause of where the airbag is located?
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      07-21-2011, 07:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
I thought you can't changed to buckets in a vert cause of where the airbag is located?

Which airbag??
The one in the seat??

The only real problem is the oem seatbelt is attached to the front seats...
And requires custom coding to get rid of all the errors: airbag, oc3, seatbelt, seatback, etc...

So I have a half-cage / roll-bar on the way right now to mount a harness.

It's sorta uncharted territory as no e93 m or not, has buckets/roll-bar.

Last edited by stega; 07-21-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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      07-21-2011, 08:41 PM   #39
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Don't forget that the e93's weight distribution is more biased towards the rear, almost opposite of the e90 and e92. Even more so when you drop the top, so you're getting better traction to the rear wheels
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      07-21-2011, 10:50 PM   #40
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Technically the M3 only has "perfect 50/50 weight distribution" when it is either parked or going in a straight line at a steady speed.

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      07-21-2011, 11:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to come across unlike an ass and actually state numerous times that it's just my personal preference, someone is still going to take it the wrong way.

I did not start this as a mine is better than yours in any way shape or form and made an effort to clearly state that. If to you a car with a roof is not an option, no matter what my car with a roof is, how can mine possibly be better? It is an opinion and a preference.

I was truly hoping someone would be able to give me some insight about choosing a vert, but all I keep getting is defensive responses. Even tho I tried not to offend anyone, it still happened.

I did not start a new thread about this because I really don't care enough, and judging from how the last few posts went, it would go to hell in a hand basket.

I'm not some irrational asshole and I would ask the same question to a Porsche or Ferrari owner. I do have family who have a Porsche Turbo Vert and a F430 Vert. I don't get that as much as I don't get an M3 vert but since it's family I guess it easier to have that convo without anyone getting offended.
I didn't really see that anyone was offended in their responses. I do think your viewpoint is a little extreme, and people are questioning your reasons because they don't make sense to them, but I didn't really read anything as taking offense or coming back with personal attack or anything.

Bottom line is that people want different things, and the 'vert is a way to tap into a market of individuals who are less about tracking and more about a nice looking car that's fun to cruise in. As others have stated, why do they make convertible Porsches or Ferraris? Why do cars come in different colors? Different transmissions?

I don't think of the M3 being more expensive than a regular 3 because it's the perfect vehicle, I just see it as an upgrade from the regular 3 series. I certainly don't think the cost includes any sort of prestige or bragging rights, it's pretty much in line with the hardware upgrades, like choosing between a 328 or 335. You pay for upgraded engine, upgraded suspension, etc, and any prestige you get is free IMO.

You consider the added feature of a drop-top to be a downgrade that you pay for, and that's fair, but it shouldn't confuse you that some don't. If I'm sitting in a 328 or 335 convertible, it would still make sense to have to pay more for those engine and handling upgrades. If I'm not mistaken you just don't see the point in adding more power to a convertible.

I chose the 'vert because (1) it was cheaper (lease) (2) as you state, NOT a pro driver so even my best day wouldn't be any different whether I had a sedan, coupe, or 'vert (3) I found it the more enjoyable and better looking vehicle. Being outside with that engine sealed the deal, I'm not sure why anyone would get a 3 series convertible and NOT get the M3 variety!

Last edited by sor; 07-21-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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      07-21-2011, 11:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stega View Post
Which airbag??
The one in the seat??

The only real problem is the oem seatbelt is attached to the front seats...
And requires custom coding to get rid of all the errors: airbag, oc3, seatbelt, seatback, etc...

So I have a half-cage / roll-bar on the way right now to mount a harness.

It's sorta uncharted territory as no e93 m or not, has buckets/roll-bar.
yeah the one in the seat

and yeah the seat belt...

I'm interested to see your build! please post LOTS of pictures
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      07-22-2011, 07:30 AM   #43
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Quote:
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yeah the one in the seat

and yeah the seat belt...

I'm interested to see your build! please post LOTS of pictures
Will do...

I am looking at around 2 months to get the roll-bar and everything together right now.
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      07-29-2011, 08:57 AM   #44
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Will do...

I am looking at around 2 months to get the roll-bar and everything together right now.
is it ready yet? please bring it to Vista so a bunch of us can drool ever the roll cage!!
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