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      07-17-2011, 11:44 PM   #1
Mookster
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2012 GTR Runs Top Gear Track In 1:17.8

1:15.1 - Ariel Atom 500 V8
1:16.2 - McLaren MP4-12C
1:16.8 - Bugatti Veyron Super Sport
1:17.1 - Gumpert Apollo S
1:17.3 - Ascari A10
1:17.6 - Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear Wing)
1:17.7 - Noble M600 (cold)
1:17.8 - New GTR !!!
1:17.8 - Pagani Zonda Roadster F
1:17.9 - Caterham Seven Superlight R500 (cold)
1:18.3 - Bugatti Veyron 16.4
1:18.4 - Pagani Zonda F
1:18.9 - Maserati MC12
1:19.0 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce
1:19.0 - Enzo Ferrari
1:19.1 - Ferrari 458 Italia
1:19.5 - Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
1:19.5 - Porsche 997 GT2
1:19.5 - Ariel Atom 2 300
1:19.7 - Nissan GT-R
1:19.7 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia

http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-...04_2285345.htm

Here is the lap:

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      07-18-2011, 05:42 AM   #2
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The GTR never ceases to impress me.
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      07-18-2011, 06:32 AM   #3
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Hey now we can raise the price of the GTR some more!
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      07-18-2011, 08:17 AM   #4
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That's an insane time. The GTR really is no joke.
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      07-18-2011, 08:23 AM   #5
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No worries...the M3 interior is still nicer lol
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      07-18-2011, 08:40 AM   #6
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That is unbelievable. For the price of the car it has literally changed everything when it comes to performance. I cant believe it blew away the 458. Crazy.
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      07-18-2011, 08:50 AM   #7
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wow. Amazing!!
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      07-18-2011, 09:09 AM   #8
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DAMN that ATOM V8 is freakin fast.. lol
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      07-18-2011, 09:15 AM   #9
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That's a phenominal time. Also, considering that it's company on the list aren't even real streetable cars until about the 1:19+ area makes it even more impressive.
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      07-18-2011, 09:16 AM   #10
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The GTR is nuts! I cannot help feel like Porsche is ripping everyone off and BMW is holding back on performance.

When you consider price, the GTR slides in nicely between BMW and Porsche. However, when you consider performance, the GTR blows the doors off both.

In terms of overall quality, the 2012 GTR probably slides between BMW and Porsche too. I can tell you one thing, the paint on the GTR puts BMWs paint to shame. I prefer the no-nonsense interior of the M3 but the GTR is not shabby at all (they can do without all the 1980's video game style console).

I hope the next M3 can give the GTR a run for its money....however, I somehow do not think it will.

I just don't understand how Nissan can make a pig of a car perform to the extreme level that the GTR can perform to.....really mind blowing.

It is especially mind blowing when the new GTR can blow the doors off the $400k LFA.


-SZ
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      07-18-2011, 09:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
I just don't understand how Nissan can make a pig of a car perform to the extreme level that the GTR can perform to.....really mind blowing.
-SZ
AFAIK, GTR has a trick awd system, and massive computer help to go with it.
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      07-18-2011, 09:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Why would you think Porsche is ripping people off? GT3 RS (and the other GTx cars) is/are as good as it gets and is/are ~1/2 the price of its competitors from Ferrari/Lambo. What would you call what Ferrari/Lamborghini/AM are doing? Because surely ripping people off should be too much of an understatement...
And why would you think BMW is holding back? Their current best (M3 GTS) simply cannot run in the company of these caliber of cars. Itll be decades before BMW has a car that can run with cars on this list.
Well, for one, a new GT3 RS 4.0 is almost $95k more than a GTR and that doesn't even include options. So basically, it takes a $185k-$200k for Porsche to give a consumer a product that can do what the GTR can do for $90k. Or, one can buy a GTR and an M5 and have the best of both worlds for the same amount of money.

Secondly, the M3 GTS, while very nice, cannot even keep up with a standard GT3 RS (the 3.8) less alone a GTR.


Like the GTR, all Porsches (with a few exceptions) are mass produced. Ferraris and Lambos are not mass produced and therefore command higher prices. Not to mention the quality of materials used in a Ferrari or Lambo, in terms of leather alone, bump up the price a bit.

A GTR is closer to a BMW and a Porsche in terms of interior material quality than BMW and Porsche are to Ferrari and Lambo.

Edit: Don't get me wrong....I'll take a Porsche GT3 over a GTR any day of the week.

-SZ
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      07-18-2011, 10:12 AM   #13
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2012 Godzilla did some serious damage. Amazing.

Bonus video: http://bcove.me/i0dd6r06
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      07-18-2011, 10:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
It takes a 300-400K Ferrari to keep up with a GTR, so that 185K RS 4.0 seems like a bargain, and its quality is right up there.
Quality of materials is not what you think on a Ferrari or Lambo. Have you seen the massive amounts of orange peel on them? The interiors arent too much better. And as far as interior, the quality in the Panamera is better than all of them so I dont agree with you there. Ive been in my share of F cars and L cars and they really arent anything to write home about.
Like I said earlier, BMW, Porsche and Nissan's are mass produced cars. Ferarris, Lambos, etc are basically hand-built. Comparing a mass produced product to a non-mass produced product in terms of price, is like comparing apples to oranges; it is called "economies of scale". The rarity of these types of cars also helps keep their values high over time. An example of pricing can be seen within the BMW brand when you consider what BMW sells an M3 for in the US market and what they sell one for in Germany; a BMW in Germany is much more $$$$$. BMW sells more in the US so that can reduce pricing.

However, while Porsche is mass produced, their numbers are much less than BMW in terms of product output. Not just is this a reason why their prices are much higher the BMWs but also becuase they have high demand for a limited number of products.

In terms of product output, the GTR is probably as limited as any GT3 (I am just speculating from what I have read).

BTW, I am not sure what Ferrari's or Lambos you have been in but the quality of materials is by FAR better than anything I have seen from BMW or Porsche. The leather comes straight from a cow! It is not like the bonded, stamped leather that 95% of all other auto manufacturers use.


-SZ
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      07-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Well, for one, a new GT3 RS 4.0 is almost $95k more than a GTR and that doesn't even include options. So basically, it takes a $185k-$200k for Porsche to give a consumer a product that can do what the GTR can do for $90k. Or, one can buy a GTR and an M5 and have the best of both worlds for the same amount of money.
-SZ
One thing you're missing is that GT3/RS/4.0 is a rwd car that gives 100% control to you. GTR is awd, with trick computers to keep it going. The former is "analog", the latter is "digital". The driving pleasure cannot be measured in paper with some numbers.
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      07-18-2011, 10:44 AM   #16
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2012 Godzilla did some serious damage. Amazing.

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      07-18-2011, 10:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Like I said earlier, BMW, Porsche and Nissan's are mass produced cars. Ferarris, Lambos, etc are basically hand-built. Comparing a mass produced product to a non-mass produced product in terms of price, is like comparing apples to oranges; it is called "economies of scale". The rarity of these types of cars also helps keep their values high over time. An example of pricing can be seen within the BMW brand when you consider what BMW sells an M3 for in the US market and what they sell one for in Germany; a BMW in Germany is much more $$$$$. BMW sells more in the US so that can reduce pricing.

However, while Porsche is mass produced, their numbers are much less than BMW in terms of product output. Not just is this a reason why their prices are much higher the BMWs but also becuase they have high demand for a limited number of products.

In terms of product output, the GTR is probably as limited as any GT3 (I am just speculating from what I have read).

BTW, I am not sure what Ferrari's or Lambos you have been in but the quality of materials is by FAR better than anything I have seen from BMW or Porsche. The leather comes straight from a cow! It is not like the bonded, stamped leather that 95% of all other auto manufacturers use.


-SZ


I'm not sure what the GT3 numbers are but Nissan ships about 1200-1500 GTRs to the US every year.
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      07-18-2011, 11:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I'm not sure what the GT3 numbers are but Nissan ships about 1200-1500 GTRs to the US every year.
That's right around how many M3's are sold yearly.
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      07-18-2011, 11:25 AM   #19
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That's right around how many M3's are sold yearly.
1200-1500 M3s a year? I think it is 10x of that.
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      07-18-2011, 11:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
One thing you're missing is that GT3/RS/4.0 is a rwd car that gives 100% control to you. GTR is awd, with trick computers to keep it going. The former is "analog", the latter is "digital". The driving pleasure cannot be measured in paper with some numbers.
I agree. However, regardless of what a driver may feel, the numbers are the numbers. Everything else is subjective. Most of the other cars on that list also employ their own share of electronic wizardry....it's not just a GTR thing it is an evolving attribute of just about every sports car out there.

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      07-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Ive been in almost every modern day Ferrari from the 360 up. I agree the leather is nice but Im talking overall quality for the price, not leather alone. Again, on a car of that price, it should be absolutely perfect in all material respects. Ive said this before, but I was shopping for a 360 spyder and looked at a number of 430's as well for my father and some of the things about them just werent up to snuff IMO for spending 200K+ on a car. And dont get me wrong, not saying its not very good, top quality stuff as it should be, but there are things that arent perfect and should be.
I also had a friend who owned a Gallardo who would agree its quality was lacking on a 210K car.
Again, these are very limited hand-built cars. If Ferrari or Lambo would drop prices, they probably would go out of business. Price does not always reflect quality but price always reflects supply and demand.

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      07-18-2011, 11:32 AM   #22
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for some reason the gtr has never been on my radar, probably because its a nissan but they are amazing cars. my first experience with one though was seeing a guy smoke his tranny at the track in his new gtr couple years ago. cant deny it would be fun to have such a fast car but afraid of what everyone says about such a muted driving experience.
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