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      07-12-2011, 06:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by MAERD TEW View Post
I've got the M3 on my mind for quite sometime (prefer German over American any day) ... Cousin of mine has the GT 5.0 with everything in it. Always hear a weird whining noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Do you hear that in your car as well? Also, "there's no replacement for displacement," the M3 gets away with the 90+ torque differential because its built with every bit of the everyday driver in mind. The feel of the inside of the 'Stang is just as cheap as the price tag suggests.

When I get my M3, my NYS Lic Plate will read, "STANGDIS", look out for it everyone. No offense to anyone who drives a Mustang, just my cousin who owns one.
I don't have any gear whine in my car. That's not something that comes up on the Mustang forums either, unlike the 1st-2nd shift issue that some of these cars have problems with. (not mine)

I'm close to 8000 miles on my GT and it is still tight as a drum. I pocketed a clean $20k in savings over the M3 for a car that lacks only in prestige and looks but is the equal or the superior in all other aspects. Both cars are very late in their life cycle, I'm sitting on my wallet until the C7 Corvette, F30 M3, and the Porsche 991 Carrera S. All of these cars are going to be major updates, especially the M3.
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      07-12-2011, 09:46 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
I don't have any gear whine in my car. That's not something that comes up on the Mustang forums either, unlike the 1st-2nd shift issue that some of these cars have problems with. (not mine)

I'm close to 8000 miles on my GT and it is still tight as a drum. I pocketed a clean $20k in savings over the M3 for a car that lacks only in prestige and looks but is the equal or the superior in all other aspects. Both cars are very late in their life cycle, I'm sitting on my wallet until the C7 Corvette, F30 M3, and the Porsche 991 Carrera S. All of these cars are going to be major updates, especially the M3.
So you are saying that the interior, seats, electronics, driving feel and overall refinement of the vehicle is equal? I don't buy that. Mustangs are starting to compare to the M3 in certain categories...but come on. I'm new to the thread so sorry if I missed this, but did you actually own an E92 M3?

My SC'd E92 is working out just fine for me Just pulled on my buddy in a GT-R the other day That's my recommendation... a couple mods and a SC kit turn these things into monsters.
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      07-12-2011, 10:12 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
I don't have any gear whine in my car. That's not something that comes up on the Mustang forums either, unlike the 1st-2nd shift issue that some of these cars have problems with. (not mine)

I'm close to 8000 miles on my GT and it is still tight as a drum. I pocketed a clean $20k in savings over the M3 for a car that lacks only in prestige and looks but is the equal or the superior in all other aspects. Both cars are very late in their life cycle, I'm sitting on my wallet until the C7 Corvette, F30 M3, and the Porsche 991 Carrera S. All of these cars are going to be major updates, especially the M3.
I am someone who loves Mustangs, almost bought a 2011 5.0L..but you must be on crack if you think the Mustang is equal or superior to the BMW M3. I am not a fanbois, I have owned a multitude of Mustangs as well as BMWs and Porsches. The Mustang is almost on the same level of the M3 when it comes to performance (the Boss actually meets it or passes it, different story there), but when it comes to the actual build quality, interior materials and a host of other features the Mustang fell quite a bit short. Otherwise I would be driving a Mustang right now.

Also, you better read the forums again regarding the tranny problems with the Ford MT82 tranny. There have been several TSBs on the tranny and Ford may be looking at a class action law suit to fix them.

Now when the 2015 Mustang debuts in 2014 it could very well be the equal to the BMW when it comes out. Hell, the interior of a Fusion and Focus is nicer than that of the Mustang and I have driven a 2011 Mustang GT.

Now before you get your panties up in a furl, the BMW should be better in those other areas as the car is some $20k+ more expensive.

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      07-12-2011, 10:15 PM   #70
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Always enjoy the "almost as goods as an M3" comments. I haven't looked, but are there many M3 guy's lurking on the Mustang forum?
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      07-12-2011, 11:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by haze gray View Post
Always enjoy the "almost as goods as an M3" comments. I haven't looked, but are there many M3 guy's lurking on the Mustang forum?
I do, but thats about it...

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      07-13-2011, 08:00 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
I don't have any gear whine in my car. That's not something that comes up on the Mustang forums either, unlike the 1st-2nd shift issue that some of these cars have problems with. (not mine)

I'm close to 8000 miles on my GT and it is still tight as a drum. I pocketed a clean $20k in savings over the M3 for a car that lacks only in prestige and looks but is the equal or the superior in all other aspects. Both cars are very late in their life cycle, I'm sitting on my wallet until the C7 Corvette, F30 M3, and the Porsche 991 Carrera S. All of these cars are going to be major updates, especially the M3.
It's definitely on the Forums - http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ne-normal.html ...

Regardless, I'm am not bashing the 'Stang, just a matter of preference. Just saying that they can compete in every aspect is definitely far from real. Theory and practice are two different things. Theoretically the 'Stang can keep up, but in reality, they're two different classes and two different cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e60cs5 View Post
So you are saying that the interior, seats, electronics, driving feel and overall refinement of the vehicle is equal? I don't buy that. Mustangs are starting to compare to the M3 in certain categories...but come on. I'm new to the thread so sorry if I missed this, but did you actually own an E92 M3?

My SC'd E92 is working out just fine for me Just pulled on my buddy in a GT-R the other day That's my recommendation... a couple mods and a SC kit turn these things into monsters.
Definitely not the same in any stretch of the imagination.
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      07-14-2011, 02:09 PM   #73
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I traded an 2011 M3 E90 for a 2011 5.0......... no regrets..... solid car..... one complaint only... PLASTIC!!!
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      07-15-2011, 10:02 AM   #74
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Alot of people complain about plastic but for performance oriented drivers plastic has one redeeming quality... its LIGHT. I find it fascinating how some posters can deplore plastic and complain about weight. The next gen M3 will likely carbon fibre reinforced plastic which I guess sounds sexier but if you are wanting a light car (and efficiency standards will press weight down on performance cars to compensate) best get used to plastic in some form. Granted interiors will probably be the now adored "soft" plastic which I find a little comical. "Soft" plastic is like zarconian diamonds or pleather, looks and feels like the real thing but its not actually leather... yet "soft" plastic gets a pass? Honestly, I don't care all that much as long as the interior is comfortable, functional, and attractive. When I hear people say "ooh plastic" I roll my eyes. Is it just the fact that its plastic that bothers you or does it look unattractive? In some cases I think hard plastic does look bad, especially when they try to make it textured as if it was leather. But plastic can also be done right and even our beloved M3's have plastic in the interior (center console, AC vents, etc)

Here is a question, if the M3 had all plastic (even soft plastic) interior and pleather seats, but shaved off 300lbs and cost 15k less, but looked identical to how it looks now, would you buy it?

It's a bit like the Mustangs live axle. People love to point that out but the car performs very well with it and the car is 300lbs lighter than its nearest competition (Camaro).

As we enter this decade, the focus on lightweight materials is going to become intense. "Soft" plastic, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, and even standard plastic is going to find more uses. If any of it becomes "non luxery" in perception than it probably won't go away, manufacturers will just find ways to hide it.
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      07-15-2011, 10:09 AM   #75
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Drove the GT a few days ago. Loved it.. what a blast. The noise is awesome. I did not notice any appreciable detriment related to the live rear axle.

That said, the overall package is disappointing (though, makes sense considering the price). For me I'd rather just pay more for an upscale interior, intelligently designed greenhouse, and arguably more understated exterior design. I am also strongly concerned about reliability and resale value. Here in Calgary, American cars have unbelievably bad resale values. Horrible, in fact; becoming more noticeable with each passing year.
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      07-15-2011, 10:48 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobe View Post
Alot of people complain about plastic but for performance oriented drivers plastic has one redeeming quality... its LIGHT. I find it fascinating how some posters can deplore plastic and complain about weight. The next gen M3 will likely carbon fibre reinforced plastic which I guess sounds sexier but if you are wanting a light car (and efficiency standards will press weight down on performance cars to compensate) best get used to plastic in some form. Granted interiors will probably be the now adored "soft" plastic which I find a little comical. "Soft" plastic is like zarconian diamonds or pleather, looks and feels like the real thing but its not actually leather... yet "soft" plastic gets a pass? Honestly, I don't care all that much as long as the interior is comfortable, functional, and attractive. When I hear people say "ooh plastic" I roll my eyes. Is it just the fact that its plastic that bothers you or does it look unattractive? In some cases I think hard plastic does look bad, especially when they try to make it textured as if it was leather. But plastic can also be done right and even our beloved M3's have plastic in the interior (center console, AC vents, etc)

Here is a question, if the M3 had all plastic (even soft plastic) interior and pleather seats, but shaved off 300lbs and cost 15k less, but looked identical to how it looks now, would you buy it?

It's a bit like the Mustangs live axle. People love to point that out but the car performs very well with it and the car is 300lbs lighter than its nearest competition (Camaro).

As we enter this decade, the focus on lightweight materials is going to become intense. "Soft" plastic, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, and even standard plastic is going to find more uses. If any of it becomes "non luxery" in perception than it probably won't go away, manufacturers will just find ways to hide it.


Except everything you mentioned the Mustang and the M3 weigh the same...

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      07-15-2011, 11:41 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Except everything you mentioned the Mustang and the M3 weigh the same...

Dave
Aluminum construction in subframe and undercarriage I think account for a bit of that. That also might be where the remainder of price diferrence would be. Though I think high strength steel will become widespread in future domestics, aluminum prices are starting to rise by a good margin and very well could be a price limiter. Though in many ways I think I'd rather have HSS than aluminum, aluminum is easier to manipulate and produce. I think the next M3 will have a balance of HSS, alumium, and carbon reinforced plastic in its construction whereas the next Mustang will probably have very limited carbon fibre and mostly HSS. Body panels could be the only aluminum that the next stang uses. Though I could be wrong.
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      07-25-2011, 10:02 AM   #78
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      07-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
I am someone who loves Mustangs, almost bought a 2011 5.0L..but you must be on crack if you think the Mustang is equal or superior to the BMW M3.... when it comes to the actual build quality, interior materials and a host of other features the Mustang fell quite a bit short. Otherwise I would be driving a Mustang right now.

Dave
Dave,

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that a Ford Mustang has a better interior than an E92 M3. Clearly, it does not. Build quality? The BMW still has the edge, but we're not talking a huge chasm here. When it comes to dash materials, seats, paint, and hinged doors, the BMW wins hands down. When it comes to stereo and HVAC controls, turn signal/washer, and shifter feel, I think the Ford is better.

I guess I'm just the opposite of you, I do not like domestics and have been predisposed to a variety of imports over the last 15 years. But the Ford simply won me over because it's a better driver's car, is more exciting despite it's crude looks and simple suspension.

If we want to extend questions of build quality outside the "touch and feel" parts of the exterior and cockpit into the internals of the car, I feel much more confident in the 5.0 engine than in the smaller, more stressed BMW engine. Driving cars back to back, the Mustang's engine just feels so much more alive and powerful. The torque difference does not look to be much on paper but I promise you....take two spirited test drives back-to-back like I did and the different is substantial.

The Mustang is far from perfect :I think it's an ugly car, I think it's too big, the seats suck, and it takes about $1500 in suspension upgrades to really make it come alive on the road. All things even, the BMW is my choice (only with DCT, however). But as you pointed out, they're not even.

I disagree that the cars are "different". The cars are exceptionally similar in all ways except styling. Do people cross-shop BMW's and Fords? Only by enthusiasts, I think. God knows, when I was nearly ready to sign the dotted line at my BMW dealership and started reading these Mustang comparisons, I never dreamed in a 1000 years I would own a Mustang. But then again, I never dreamed Ford could package a $20k cheaper alternative to the M3 with an engine that is absolutely superior in all ways to an M-engine.

When the turbo F30's come out and the C7 Corvettes with DCT come out, however, my Mustang is going up on Autotrader. I'm constantly looking for something new.
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      07-26-2011, 07:22 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
Dave,

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that a Ford Mustang has a better interior than an E92 M3. Clearly, it does not. Build quality? The BMW still has the edge, but we're not talking a huge chasm here. When it comes to dash materials, seats, paint, and hinged doors, the BMW wins hands down. When it comes to stereo and HVAC controls, turn signal/washer, and shifter feel, I think the Ford is better.

I guess I'm just the opposite of you, I do not like domestics and have been predisposed to a variety of imports over the last 15 years. But the Ford simply won me over because it's a better driver's car, is more exciting despite it's crude looks and simple suspension.

If we want to extend questions of build quality outside the "touch and feel" parts of the exterior and cockpit into the internals of the car, I feel much more confident in the 5.0 engine than in the smaller, more stressed BMW engine. Driving cars back to back, the Mustang's engine just feels so much more alive and powerful. The torque difference does not look to be much on paper but I promise you....take two spirited test drives back-to-back like I did and the different is substantial.

The Mustang is far from perfect :I think it's an ugly car, I think it's too big, the seats suck, and it takes about $1500 in suspension upgrades to really make it come alive on the road. All things even, the BMW is my choice (only with DCT, however). But as you pointed out, they're not even.

I disagree that the cars are "different". The cars are exceptionally similar in all ways except styling. Do people cross-shop BMW's and Fords? Only by enthusiasts, I think. God knows, when I was nearly ready to sign the dotted line at my BMW dealership and started reading these Mustang comparisons, I never dreamed in a 1000 years I would own a Mustang. But then again, I never dreamed Ford could package a $20k cheaper alternative to the M3 with an engine that is absolutely superior in all ways to an M-engine.

When the turbo F30's come out and the C7 Corvettes with DCT come out, however, my Mustang is going up on Autotrader. I'm constantly looking for something new.
+1 i definitely liked the shifter feel and engine, the steering isn't quite there as the BMW has perfect feel.
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      07-29-2011, 07:13 PM   #81
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When I am referring to build quality I am referring to the touch and feel of the materials. I agree with you I feel the Mustang is of excellent build quality. Its just after 2 E46 M3s and an 07 997S getting a Mustang with its interior just didn't feel good to me. Believe me, I wanted to get a Mustang and save some $400 per month on a payment. It was just to much of a downgrade (interior wise) than I was willing to do, of course this is just my opinion and yours may vary.

I will say this though...when the 2014/15 Mustang debuts it will probably be the car I get after the M3. It will be normally aspirated with the 5.0L getting DI by then and another 15-20hp with better fuel economy to boot. Ford is talking about a lighter smaller Mustang for the next go round. The M3 with the turbos is just not my bag..I'm a normally aspirated guy.

BTW, quite a few 5.0s are destroying the #8 piston when they are tuned and Ford is clamping down on aftermarket mods. I mean the car is only making 82hp/litre, it shouldnt be so stressed with just a tune. Something is amiss there, and they have to ditch the MT82 trannies made in China.

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      08-01-2011, 07:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
When I am referring to build quality I am referring to the touch and feel of the materials. I agree with you I feel the Mustang is of excellent build quality. Its just after 2 E46 M3s and an 07 997S getting a Mustang with its interior just didn't feel good to me. Believe me, I wanted to get a Mustang and save some $400 per month on a payment. It was just to much of a downgrade (interior wise) than I was willing to do, of course this is just my opinion and yours may vary.

I will say this though...when the 2014/15 Mustang debuts it will probably be the car I get after the M3. It will be normally aspirated with the 5.0L getting DI by then and another 15-20hp with better fuel economy to boot. Ford is talking about a lighter smaller Mustang for the next go round. The M3 with the turbos is just not my bag..I'm a normally aspirated guy.

BTW, quite a few 5.0s are destroying the #8 piston when they are tuned and Ford is clamping down on aftermarket mods. I mean the car is only making 82hp/litre, it shouldnt be so stressed with just a tune. Something is amiss there, and they have to ditch the MT82 trannies made in China.

Dave
tunnes fault for making bad tune's and not testing them to sell them quick, no stock or F/I 5.0L has had this problem.
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      08-07-2011, 06:40 PM   #83
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tunnes fault for making bad tune's and not testing them to sell them quick, no stock or F/I 5.0L has had this problem.
John Lund was the tuner on a couple of the cars that grenaded. He is a very reputable tuner. If i was to do a tune on a Mustang it would be the FRPP.

What is interesting is these cars are only pushing 82hp/litre and a tune shouldnt have done this. A lot of guys just want bragging rights on a dyno and throw safety out the window.

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