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[badbeef]

I'm looking at a square set of wheels (18 X 10 ET25).

My primary motivation is to use in the winter with snow tires, but these could also be used for track days in the warm months.

I need some advise on tire sizes. It looks like 275 35 18 would be the tire size for the track? What would be the smallest size for the winter tires I could get away with on these (without it looking too stretched)?

[happos2]

Maybe try posting in the tire/wheel subforum. You are looking at opposite spectrums here for the 18s. I run a 275 square set up on my 18s. Use the stocker wheels with blizzaks for winter.

[slicer]

A 10" square wheelset can be used in the winter but it's a bad option. I would suggest 9.5" square with 255/40/18's or 9" or 8.5" square with 245/40/18. I used to run OEM 18's staggered with 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 snows. It worked well until the snow got deep. At that point I didn't have enough traction to climb the hill into my driveway.

You are trying to achieve very different things in the snow vs. the track. On the track you want wide tires. In the snow you want narrow tires so that the tire penetrates the snow and gets to the grip on the pavement below.

Also keep in mind that it costs $120+ to mount and balance tires. You would need to do that 2x's per year which will quickly go through the money you thought that you were saving when sharing wheels for the track / winter. It makes the most sense to have a dedicated winter wheel/tire.

[badbeef]

Originally Posted by slicer

A 10" square wheelset can be used in the winter but it's a bad option. I would suggest 9.5" square with 255/40/18's or 9" or 8.5" square with 245/40/18. I used to run OEM 18's staggered with 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 snows. It worked well until the snow got deep. At that point I didn't have enough traction to climb the hill into my driveway.

You are trying to achieve very different things in the snow vs. the track. On the track you want wide tires. In the snow you want narrow tires so that the tire penetrates the snow and gets to the grip on the pavement below.

Also keep in mind that it costs $120+ to mount and balance tires. You would need to do that 2x's per year which will quickly go through the money you thought that you were saving when sharing wheels for the track / winter. It makes the most sense to have a dedicated winter wheel/tire.

Glad to see you moved to a warmer client. Jealous. I don't drive a lot, but sometimes I need to drive in the winter. So there's that. And the insurance deductible for driving on too wide tires in the winter if I hit something.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by badbeef

Glad to see you moved to a warmer client. Jealous. I don't drive a lot, but sometimes I need to drive in the winter. So there's that. And the insurance deductible for driving on too wide tires in the winter if I hit something.

Yes a warmer climate is definitely better for a car guy. Unfortunately we will probably be moving back to MN in a year.

[isherdholi]

If you want to use the car in winter with snow tyres, I wouldn't be going for 10-inch wide wheels.

Generally speaking, for better traction on snow, the narrow the tyre footprint, the better.

Go for an 8-inch width wheel and 225 tyres.

[MKE_M3]

the skinnier the better for winter. I drive my e90 M3 on 235/40R18 winter tires and it's "ok" in the winter. Can be a lot of fun, but if the snow is too deep, it still isn't great.

[DBH]

Originally Posted by MKE_M3

the skinnier the better for winter. I drive my e90 M3 on 235/40R18 winter tires and it's "ok" in the winter. Can be a lot of fun, but if the snow is too deep, it still isn't great.

BMW recommends 235/40/18 all around for winter driving. I have used this setup successfully for four winters. I bought an inexpensive set of wheels (with tires mounted) in size 18X8 from Tire Rack. I put 15 mm Turner spacers on the rears for aesthetic purposes.

The only thing that stops me is snow that's deeper than about 4-5 inches. At that point, the car starts to act as a snow plow!

[MKE_M3]

Originally Posted by DBH

BMW recommends 235/40/18 all around for winter driving. I have used this setup successfully for four winters. I bought an inexpensive set of wheels (with tires mounted) in size 18X8 from Tire Rack. I put 15 mm Turner spacers on the rears for aesthetic purposes.

The only thing that stops me is snow that's deeper than about 4-5 inches. At that point, the car starts to act as a snow plow!

Yup, my experience exactly (except for spacers).

[kt35]

Originally Posted by slicer

A 10" square wheelset can be used in the winter but it's a bad option. I would suggest 9.5" square with 255/40/18's or 9" or 8.5" square with 245/40/18. I used to run OEM 18's staggered with 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 snows. It worked well until the snow got deep. At that point I didn't have enough traction to climb the hill into my driveway.

You are trying to achieve very different things in the snow vs. the track. On the track you want wide tires. In the snow you want narrow tires so that the tire penetrates the snow and gets to the grip on the pavement below.

Also keep in mind that it costs $120+ to mount and balance tires. You would need to do that 2x's per year which will quickly go through the money you thought that you were saving when sharing wheels for the track / winter. It makes the most sense to have a dedicated winter wheel/tire.

Sorry to jack the thread, but slicer what was your experience like running staggered in the winter? I need to pick up a set of winter tires/wheels and am debating whether to run the staggered 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 setup on OEM 18s or go with 8.5 square with 245/40/18. I don't need my car to commute so if the snow was real bad i just wouldn't drive. Just need a setup for cold temps and light snow. Thoughts? Should I go narrower to 235 like the bmw winter setup?

Because of storage constraints I may also need to be swapping into winter tires a bit early in the season and swapping out a bit late in the season. In regular, non-winter conditions will there be a real, noticeable difference in driving between a staggered and square setup?

[happos2]

Originally Posted by kt35

Sorry to jack the thread, but slicer what was your experience like running staggered in the winter? I need to pick up a set of winter tires/wheels and am debating whether to run the staggered 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 setup on OEM 18s or go with 8.5 square with 245/40/18. I don't need my car to commute so if the snow was real bad i just wouldn't drive. Just need a setup for cold temps and light snow. Thoughts? Should I go narrower to 235 like the bmw winter setup?

Because of storage constraints I may also need to be swapping into winter tires a bit early in the season and swapping out a bit late in the season. In regular, non-winter conditions will there be a real, noticeable difference in driving between a staggered and square setup?

If you are driving on winter tires, you are not looking for raw performance, rather cold weather and snow performance. I ran a 235/255 staggered setup this winter and dominated all snow conditions in Indiana (record year here too). If I was buying wheels and tires (I used OEM wheels), guess I could do square set up so I can rotate and get longer life...but I don't think there would be much benefit otherwise. Maybe look at which gives you a better sidewall profile so you can get better wheel protection as well.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kt35

Sorry to jack the thread, but slicer what was your experience like running staggered in the winter? I need to pick up a set of winter tires/wheels and am debating whether to run the staggered 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 setup on OEM 18s or go with 8.5 square with 245/40/18. I don't need my car to commute so if the snow was real bad i just wouldn't drive. Just need a setup for cold temps and light snow. Thoughts? Should I go narrower to 235 like the bmw winter setup?

Because of storage constraints I may also need to be swapping into winter tires a bit early in the season and swapping out a bit late in the season. In regular, non-winter conditions will there be a real, noticeable difference in driving between a staggered and square setup?

I found that my staggered set in OEM sizes worked great in the conditions you seem to need them for. I did however have problems when the snow got deep. Once the snow was above my bumper level - turning the car into a snow plow. I'm sure that narrower tires would have helped. I'm not wild about the idea of going down to a 235/40/18 simply because that is such a small tire (both from sidewall height perspective and width perspective). I would consider running a square set of 255/40/18's on 9.5" wheels. I liked the staggered wheels on the OEM rims because they looked decent and got the job done. However if/when I move back to the midwest I do not want to run my M3 in the winter again. I have a 120 degree angle turn to enter the alley that leads to my driveway, it's uphill, and when the snow was deep I couldn't get enough traction / momentum to get into the garage. I never had any other issues...

[kt35]

Originally Posted by slicer

I found that my staggered set in OEM sizes worked great in the conditions you seem to need them for. I did however have problems when the snow got deep. Once the snow was above my bumper level - turning the car into a snow plow. I'm sure that narrower tires would have helped. I'm not wild about the idea of going down to a 235/40/18 simply because that is such a small tire (both from sidewall height perspective and width perspective). I would consider running a square set of 255/40/18's on 9.5" wheels. I liked the staggered wheels on the OEM rims because they looked decent and got the job done. However if/when I move back to the midwest I do not want to run my M3 in the winter again. I have a 120 degree angle to enter the alley that leads to my driveway, it's uphill, and when the snow was deep I couldn't get enough traction / momentum to get into the garage. I never had any other issues...

Thanks. Sounds like I'd be ok with the staggered... Luckily don't need to use the car in the deep stuff!

[neptun]

Originally Posted by happos2

If you are driving on winter tires, you are not looking for raw performance, rather cold weather and snow performance. I ran a 235/255 staggered setup this winter and dominated all snow conditions in Indiana (record year here too). If I was buying wheels and tires (I used OEM wheels), guess I could do square set up so I can rotate and get longer life...but I don't think there would be much benefit otherwise. Maybe look at which gives you a better sidewall profile so you can get better wheel protection as well.

After reading all the feedback, I'm second guessing my Blizzak LM-60s 255/35/19 Fronts and 275/35/19s Rears. Too wide? Bad choice?

[happos2]

Originally Posted by neptun

After reading all the feedback, I'm second guessing my Blizzak LM-60s 255/35/19 Fronts and 275/35/19s Rears. Too wide? Bad choice?

If you aren't running around in deep powder all the time, you will be fine. Even though I have narrower tires, sometimes I wish I had more sidewall for the terrible roads we have. We don't get very much powder days here (accept this past year) and I would have been fine with the wider tires. If it snows too much, I just put the spiked wheel on my mountain bike and ride to work

[neptun]

Originally Posted by happos2

If you aren't running around in deep powder all the time, you will be fine. Even though I have narrower tires, sometimes I wish I had more sidewall for the terrible roads we have. We don't get very much powder days here (accept this past year) and I would have been fine with the wider tires. If it snows too much, I just put the spiked wheel on my mountain bike and ride to work

No powder for me, not since I left Boulder for Philly! Plus I have my wife's Forester XT to cruise in the snow. Thanks for your feedback and calming my concerns.

[ben@tirerack]

Originally Posted by neptun

After reading all the feedback, I'm second guessing my Blizzak LM-60s 255/35/19 Fronts and 275/35/19s Rears. Too wide? Bad choice?

This is the most common setup for snows on the stock 19". As noted it's great except for in the deeper snow, when the wide widths work against you.