Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown08
You claim that what I am missing is the 'relation between fun and effort.'
I think you are missing the relation between fun and effort.
Fun is what you feel when you conquer a challenge.(manual shift)
Manual transmission is the challenge.
It takes very little effort and provides a small amount of fun.
It is a very easy way for us to feel a small sense of pride and accomplishment.
Now, lets increase the amount of effort and see what happens to fun:
For those advanced Manual drivers who heel/toe and perfectly rev match, while ripping the Nurburgring, there is ALOT of effort involved.
This LARGE amount of effort provides a LARGE sense of accomplishment and a LARGE amount of 'fun.' As it should.
As you can see, the more effort, the greater the rewarding feeling, and the more 'fun.' The bigger the challenge, the greater potential for 'fun' to be felt when conquered. Seriously think about that. Its true.
Which is why it follows logically that hunting would be extremely challenging and extremely fun. Just look at all the men who still do it as sport. Eating at McDonalds has deprived them of this challenge.
DCT deprives you of a challenge.
Why do you resist DCT but accept McDonalds?
I'm sure if you spent 4 hrs hunting and caught some game with your own bare hands, you would feel super proud of yourself and deem it fun. More effort, more fun. The greater the time investment the greater the potential reward. And do not tell me that there is no other brute challenge which would be fun to you besides shifting a manual. I am sure you would feel pride if you did other tasks by hand, but in most cases, you just let technology do it for you.
I applaud you for at least considering my point. And for the last time, it is not my intention to insult MT owners. I am yet undecided as to which I will choose. It is simply my intention to point out the hypocrisy in those who rip on DCT as a inhibitor to 'fun,' while at the same time do not decry all other 'fun' activities which have been replaced by technology.
Deep down, I think we all know insisting on a manual is rather embarrassing. Its embarrassing that we think rowing gears is something to be proud of, but we can't help it. At some point you have to realize that the sun has set on this activity, however. So set yourself on a new challenge. McDonalds has replaced the challenge of hunting, so we challenge ourselves in new ways. Let DCT push you to the next level where you can learn how to really track a car. Previously, you were too busy shifting to really conquer a good line at the Nurburgring.
Where would man be if we refused McDonalds and insisted on hunting for 4 hrs per day? Where would formula 1 drivers be if they refused paddles and still rowed their gears? Accept the new technology and conquer a new, greater challenge.
Or don't, I don't care, I just wanted to point out the inconsistency.
If people stopped getting so defensive, maybe they'd admit it.
I don't anticipate that any manual lover will swallow their pride and admit that what I'm saying is true. Everyone must maintain their fragile reputation on m3post. Not to mention their belief that rowing gears is somehow noble. It would be much too unpopular to agree with me.
Have a good day
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I'm sorry, but you still don't get the point.
For me a MT is more fun than a DCT, the effort is little, so I'll go that way. Such a car is used mainly as DD, so you're point about improving race lines is neglegible for me. The hunting example still fails as analogy: Nobody hunts to get his necessary food these days. You're right that the perceived fun might be the higher, the higher the effort is. So I have to add the following criterion: Besides the above given example (that the relation between effort and perceived fun is out of proportion) there's another reason why you'd be willing to adopt new technology: When the effort itself is getting to high. No matter how much fun it would make to do anything the archaic way (hunting for example wouldn't be fun for me, but that's not a point you'd accept), you just don't have the time to make such a high effort. We can't go hunting 4 hours a day just to come back with a deer. So you're demanding that one who drives an MT car has to do things nobody else does and nobody else can do, otherwise it's inconsistent? Absurd!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown08
And if you take it a step further and specifically insult DCT owners, then you are a hypocrite.
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I see where you're coming from. You kinda overreacted after he insulted you not being a real driver. I do understand that reaction, but then you'd only have to admit that it wasn't right to lump all MT drivers together and call 'em hypocritical. Doesn't seem to me that you'll be willing to admit that though since you're claiming that one would have to adopt every technological achievement available. Again: I don't have any aversion to DCT or SMG, I don't think it's evil or anything like that, it's just less fun
for me and I like the fact that MTs are still available for performance cars like the M3, whereas the benefit of DCT is neglegible.
Best regards, south