[swamp2]

Thanks for all of the comments. Good discussion.

Originally Posted by double_j

Those specs would allow BMW to set a base price around $75,000. I'll take a 0-60 of 4.1 if it'll save me 10 grand.

I have no doubt the price of the car will continue to rise. Though they are making the 1M and possibly another car between the 1M and M3. As such I doubt a $75k base price. That would be over a 35% jump just in the base price. That's very unlikely based on historical generational prices. I think it will be a lot closer to $65k than $75k.

Originally Posted by duk

11.9-12.1 qtr mi? that would be great, but a bit optimistic i think. 12.1-12.4 is what i am thinking

The current car has done a 12.5. Your mid to upper range of 12.2-12.4 is unrealistic simply based on the power to weight. Unless it has quite a bit less power or quite a bit more weight than I have predicted, my numbers should be pretty close.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Swamp, I firmly believe a 3.5L I6 based on the modern BMW I6 architecture is not feasible in a production car, especially with a 7000 RPM rev limit.

At the same time, I think they will exceed 150hp/L with this motor, so it will be 450hp at a minimum with the likely 3L displacement, and I suspect it will be 470hp or more.

And you don't buy a modified N55 that is stroked? The 1M is an N55 with 3.0l and 7k rpm. I do think 470 is a bit on the high side, especially since SCOTT26 has already hinted at 450. However, it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility.

Originally Posted by kaykay

I agree, we're not going to see an N55 or variant thereof on the new M3 (which is still 3(?) years away??)

BMW is known for innovation and creating great engines, they're not going to keep re-using the same motor (basically an N54 that lost a turbo, became an N55, now the 1-M is using a variant thereof, etc.) Not going to happen. Thank God.

I'm pretty confident (based on trends, competition, specs, etc.) that the new M3 will have:

1) Minimum 475+ HP
2) Minimum 365+ lb ft. / torque
3) DCT again
4) Sub 4.0 second 0-60 time
5) Higher price tag
6) Better engine than the new AMG TT V8s

BMW has the upper hand in competing with the AMG TT V8 (this motor is here for another 4-5 years and we have NO idea what the BMW M motor will hold, so that's really good).

That's all pretty reasonable. Though based on the estimated torque figures for the F10 M5 I think 365 ft lb torque is way too low. Also, just as the new 1M is, the next M3 has to "mind its place in line", with 475 hp its power to weight would probably be way too close to the new 550 hp F10 M5. Then again that car might be more than 550.

Originally Posted by kaykay

Also, it's really NOT about efficiency, being green and all that other bullshit when it comes to M cars guys. Think about this: BMW has sold about 17,000 M3s (all variants) to date and they closed the M5 production line with about 22,000 units sold. This is NOTHING, peanuts. ((BMW sells about 200,000 cars per year in the US alone).

These cars are very laser targeted towards us and other "enthusiasts," times are tough, people can barely justify a $300 / month car from Ford, Toyota, etc. We're dropping $1,000+ / month on these cars. They're going to make us happy, as they always have.

BMW still needs to meet new green regulations in the EU and in NA. A small amount of very polluting cars hurts the average. They are not going with a lower displacement turbo for their M cars just for fun. More reuse across cars and better efficiency. More power from a lighter motor as well. Of course weight loss is both good for manufacturing costs, good for performance, track and strip, good for the corporate image and lastly good for mpg. A total win, win, win.

Originally Posted by kaykay

It will be BETTER than the current E9x M3, which as we all know, is truly on amazing car.

+1

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Swamp, I honestly expect it to get heavier. The new amount of tech that will be on the next gen 3er is simply amazing. Next gen ///M will be pushing 3800 pounds, IMO. With each generation M3, it's gotten bigger and fatter. The next gen, won't be an exception.

Yes, it is true, electronics, telematics, gadgets, luxury, automation etc. They all continue to grow and the car itself will be larger. That makes it very hard to manage the weight gain. My lower weight numbers might be optimistic. However as I mentioned above weight reduction is a huge endeavor at many car companies these days. BMW recently bought a carbon fiber production facility so their is some good possibilities there, both for things like hoods, trunk lids, doors and maybe even frame/body/structural component (certainly not an entire unibody though due to the huge time and labor costs). I'm absolutely just as interested in the weight of the new car as its engine and power. The final weight of the F3X 3er will be very telling as to a neutral, weight gain or weight loss being most likely for the new M3.

Do note the "sanity check" in my spreadsheet. The 1M is indeed lighter than the 135i. This bucks the trend you are calling universal!