Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.
I didn't mind your simulations then, and don't mind them now. My own simulator shows the LS3 car to be a fat two tenths quicker (12.48 to 12.74). So what. They're simulators. At a guess, the LS3 will have more trouble launching, and will be in control from there on. Perhaps it would make up for the launch problem by the end of a quarter mile, and perhaps not. It would be in control out on the mean streets, I believe.
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Either way close enough in both time to distance and time to speed to call them drivers races. I simply can not come to the same ultimate conclusion that the car would hands down be a better performer with the swap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.
After reading some in-depth tech analysis from Mercedes when it was first announced (including metallurgy), I'm willing to believe the Merc is indeed very light for its capacity. Plus of course Mercedes says it's lighter, and while you say they're lying in public, I am willing to believe them.
No problem, we just disagree again, as is often the case.
Bruce
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Wrong again Bruce. Please stop completely misstating my positon. I did not and have never stated MB have lied about their engine weights. I am simply appealing to common sense. All common sense says the M3 plant should be lighter. Come on the displacement is OVER 1.5 times larger, not 10 or 20%, 1.5 X. The argument of the particular metallurgy of the MB block does not cut it either as both the M3 block and MB block are cast from an Aluminum Silicon alloy (and both are lower density than traditional aluminum casting alloys). MB uses both 7% and 17% Si, I think for the block and heads respectively, whereas I can not locate the specific alloy BMW M uses. I'd place a big wager it is the same. Even if BMW did not use the same Al-Si the difference in the density of pure aluminum vs. 7% Al-Si alloys is less than 1% (not that anyone uses pure aluminum for castings but just to put a rough estimate on the diference).
You simply choose to blindly believe a spec (that in all due respect is based on accepted standards) that is in clear contradiction with basic logic, math and even physics. If I was trying to compare an I6 vs. a V8 or an OHC vs. pushrod engine you indeed could not use the logic I am applying here. However, the AMG and M3 plants are the same basic design and configuration; high performance, high revving, DOHC, bedplate, 90 degree, Al-Si block, V8s. I choose to remain skeptical and hence undecided. Although I do lean toward the belief that the M engine is lighter on a absolutely apples to apples basis.
The more you recall my favorite Sagan quote the better off your critical thinking will be.